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      /  3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
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QBit 
3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 11-Jun-2021 21:34:51
#1 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 18
From: Unknown

If I won the LOttery I would fund the development of a 3,2 Ghz 68 k Compatible Computer with 3 D Graphixs and 24Bit Audio In and Output for estimated 149$

Just dreaming

Last edited by QBit on 11-Jun-2021 at 09:36 PM.

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g01df1sh 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 11-Jun-2021 22:15:33
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1735
From: UK

@QBit

I keep dreaming this as well.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 11-Jun-2021 22:21:27
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2047
From: Chicago, IL

@QBit

This is essentially already available for the most part it’s just not that cheap.

http://www.apollo-computer.com/order.htm

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 11-Jun-2021 at 10:50 PM.

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QBit 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 11-Jun-2021 22:39:38
#4 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 18
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Not that cheap..not that fast no 3D Graphics no 24 Bit Audio

If that would exist it would be a success like Raspberry Pi




Look at what prices you can run WinUAE

https://www.gebrauchtcomputer24.de/computer.html

Last edited by QBit on 11-Jun-2021 at 10:44 PM.
Last edited by QBit on 11-Jun-2021 at 10:41 PM.

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bison 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 11-Jun-2021 23:34:57
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1864
From: N-Space

@QBit

I'd go with a 68K Amiga SoC and let others build the systems.

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matthey 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 0:21:43
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1129
From: Kansas

QBit Quote:

Not that cheap..not that fast no 3D Graphics no 24 Bit Audio

If that would exist it would be a success like Raspberry Pi


SAGA has upgraded audio now. Half way modern 3D logic would require a much more expensive FPGA. The Apollo CPU core takes most of the FPGA space and is partially responsible for the product being expensive. A cheaper FPGA could be used but it would lower the CPU performance.

You better win a big lottery if you want to develop and produce a 3+ GHz modern 68k. It would likely require over 10 million U.S. Lowering the GHz target to 2 GHz or below could cut the cost in half or more. You would probably need to produce and sell 100,000+ chips to recoup costs. An alternative for lower production would be to buy big high performance FPGAs which could allow 1 GHz CPU cores but may cost as much as a car. The Apollo Team could probably be convinced to make a smaller batch of hardware using mid-performance FPGAs that would allow several hundred MHz CPU cores for double or triple the current Vampire cost. A mass produced ASIC is the way to reduce costs into Raspberry Pi territory but it would be difficult to match their performance/price. It shouldn't be too difficult to make an appealing product in this impulse buying price range without matching the performance/price though. A 68k retro games device may do it for example.

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QuikSanz 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 0:26:30
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1166
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@bison,

Kind of what I was thinking. Vampire type CPU, not SOC, On a board with fast buss master PCI, options for bells and whistles.

Chris

Not stated well but you get it.

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AmigaMac 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 15:19:50
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1065
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@QBit

Would be great if an Amiga 1200 form factored motherboard with what you’re dreaming about was possible.

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Lou 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 16:10:47
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4107
From: Rhode Island

64bit SMP-enabled native AROS RPi4 port and nobody would complain...

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matthey 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 17:57:07
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1129
From: Kansas

QuikSanz Quote:

Kind of what I was thinking. Vampire type CPU, not SOC, On a board with fast buss master PCI, options for bells and whistles.


Enhanced Amiga custom chips are so small in an SoC that the logic can basically be added for free (less than $1), moving everything closer is faster and a SoC takes less board space allowing for a smaller cheaper board. PCI could be added but likely needs more pins and a larger board which increases cost. PCIe and SATA need SerDes which also raises costs but may take less board space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerDes

AmigaMac Quote:

Would be great if an Amiga 1200 form factored motherboard with what you’re dreaming about was possible.


The Amiga 1200 board is larger than necessary and the I/O plugs on the back spread out more than necessary which may add additional expense. It also may be worth considering using the Raspberry Pi form factor and designing the board to work in a Raspberry Pi 400 wedge/keyboard/case.



The Amiga 1200 keyboard is nicer but the modern wedge concept is interesting and cheap.

Last edited by matthey on 12-Jun-2021 at 06:03 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 12-Jun-2021 at 06:00 PM.

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QuikSanz 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 20:41:52
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1166
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@matthey,

PCIE and SATA, now I'm drooling. Need a bit bigger FPGA to add the bits and then turn it into an ASIC, should be good for 1GHz. Nice dreams

Chris

Last edited by QuikSanz on 12-Jun-2021 at 08:42 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 20:48:33
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11826
From: Norway

@QuikSanz

And get someone to make fast 3d chipset, and get someone to make super good 3d driver, by simply pull something from github, and hit make, and they have something better then AMD and Nvidia. Its so simple to do

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DiscreetFX 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 20:48:41
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2047
From: Chicago, IL

@matthey

Vampire V4 main board is already really small. Just buy it instead of waiting around for Vaporware future fantasy Amiga machines.

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QBit 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 21:24:43
#14 ]
Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 18
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

I simply don`t have 650 € for a Vampire V4 when I can buy a refurbished 3,2Ghz PC for 34 € and run WinUAE on it at reasonable Price amd Speed and then domate 20 € to Toni Wilen!

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QuikSanz 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 22:55:13
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1166
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@NutsAboutAmiga,

Yes, Send a SAGA type signal to a 3D accelerated GPU of some sort, must have a good driver.

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matthey 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 23:13:09
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1129
From: Kansas

QuikSanz Quote:

PCIE and SATA, now I'm drooling. Need a bit bigger FPGA to add the bits and then turn it into an ASIC, should be good for 1GHz. Nice dreams


The FPGA on the Vampire SA is likely big enough and there are Cyclone Vs with SerDes for not too much more. If developing for an ASIC, quite a bit larger FPGAs would be preferred. The higher price of developer boards for designing an ASIC could probably be paid for by selling some of the extra FPGA boards as the fastest Amigas ever made. I believe a more reasonable first target would be a ultra low priced SoC with similar expansion to a Raspberry Pi and 2D support only. Shoot for a board price between the Raspberry Pi and Raspberry Pi Zero. The 68k AmigaOS is more competitive here too.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

And get someone to make fast 3d chipset, and get someone to make super good 3d driver, by simply pull something from github, and hit make, and they have something better then AMD and Nvidia. Its so simple to do


Making a good 3D chipset is difficult compared to a good CPU core and would likely take a large amount of SoC area which increases an ASIC cost. There are plenty of 3D "chipsets" on the market which can be licensed for a 2nd generation of SoCs. If or when adding standard 3D support for the Amiga this late, it may be worth considering realtime raytracing which may be good for marketing considering the Amiga was one of the early computers able to display the results of raytracing. It is possible even in FPGA at lower resolutions as demonstrated on the SNES in the following video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jee4tlakqo

DiscreetFX Quote:

Vampire V4 main board is already really small. Just buy it instead of waiting around for Vaporware future fantasy Amiga machines.


An ASIC SoC could allow an Amiga with a fraction of the price of an FPGA Vampire SA and several times the performance. It would leave all these competing products with FPGA CPU cores or 68k emulation on ARM in the dust. All these different hardware developments are too spread out for mass production and make support more difficult. The Amiga needs to work on price/performance and return to having products that offer good value.

Last edited by matthey on 13-Jun-2021 at 01:11 AM.

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QuikSanz 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 23:55:23
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1166
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@matthey,

That's about perfect, and while we dream maybe even get the 2MB minimum chip or more on the SOC.

PS: Maybe a bit of it at least. the rest can live close by.

Last edited by QuikSanz on 13-Jun-2021 at 12:00 AM.

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AmigaMac 
Re: 3,2 Ghz 68k Computer with 3 D Graphics and 24 Bit Audio for 149$
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 1:51:41
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1065
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@DiscreetFX

Does Skill Grid work on the Vampire V4 with ApolloOS?

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