Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6020 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
17 crawler(s) on-line.
 21 guest(s) on-line.
 2 member(s) on-line.


 MEGA_RJ_MICAL,  htvront

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 MEGA_RJ_MICAL:  2 mins ago
 htvront:  4 mins ago
 BSzili:  20 mins ago
 Rob:  22 mins ago
 matthey:  30 mins ago
 Birbo:  43 mins ago
 Fl@sh:  43 mins ago
 AP:  44 mins ago
 Musashi5150:  45 mins ago
 Trixie:  51 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga General Chat
      /  AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 0:12:49
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1810
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
kolla Quote:

You can already have that advantage, there is AROS for Raspberry Pi.


Native ARM AROS on the RPi loses Amiga software compatibility and is no longer a standard Amiga.


So? When you are doing an embedded system, you have no need for compatibility for ancient software - you just want hardware in which to EMBED your very own software, for which you of course have the source code and can very well build for native AROS on ARM.

Quote:
There is demand for lightweight small footprint browsers in the embedded space (kiosks and set top boxes).


That marked has no need for AmigaOS or its features (or rather, lack thereof), they are perfectly fine without any so called "real time" demands.

Regarding your "anecdotal evidence" regarding raspberry pi and embedding linux, why not link to the entire thread:

https://fcku.it/comp.arch/thread/3861809

So it becomes clear that you are rehashing and even copy'n pasting your own arguments and sentences from years back - clever! :) But it is also evident that you were fighting windmills also back there on that thread... let's bring up a nice quote...
Quote:
The complete statement would be: "Small minority of developers loved and preferred the 68k ISA to ARM, another small minority of developers loved and preferred the ARM ISA to 68k, while absolute majority of developers didn't care about ISA."


Also, the guy who struggled with so called "real-time" problems of Linux got the solution he should go for - throw hardware on it, don't let the OS and CPU of a computer - embedded or not - deal with stuff better handed over to a dedicated (and cheap) microcontroller. Imagine that, offloading time-critical stuff to a dedicated microcontroller... why does that ring a bell, hmmmmmmm??? Right, because that is EXACTLY what Amiga does too. And why does Amiga do this? Because if you throw it all on the CPU, it will not be so happy snappy anymore. Ever tried P96 in VESA mode, or CGFx on native Amiga chipset?

Your idea of an embedded 68k system that can run AmigaOS and have awesome snappy and lightweight graphics system doesn't rely on the CPU - it relies on the graphics chipset you will provide for it and the driver software you write for it.

Last edited by kolla on 18-Sep-2021 at 02:32 AM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 3:08:09
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1147
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

So? When you are doing an embedded system, you have no need for compatibility for ancient software - you just want hardware in which to EMBED your very own software, for which you of course have the source code and can very well build for native AROS on ARM.


Embedded hardware and software choices are not always about need. If it was just about need, then exactly the perfect components of FreeRTOS would be used in most of the embedded market as it allows the cheapest and most minimal hardware. However, this is not the case.

EE Times 2019 poll of embedded OS use
Linux 66%
Windows 19%
FreeRTOS 18%

Windows is a poor choice of OS for embedded systems and Linux is more appropriate for high end embedded systems requiring memory protection and that have soft low real time needs. Using Windows or Linux when not necessary requires more expensive hardware which is very important for embedded systems. So why does Linux and Windows get used when FreeRTOS allows cheaper hardware to be used?

1. ease of use of a more standard system with software
2. time is money decreasing development costs

The proprietary RTOSs (VxWorks, TI RTOS, Integrity, Micrium, QNX, etc.) are used less than 10% of the time. They are often not free so have become niche and they usually have a customizable environment instead of standard environment. If you want to argue that the AmigaOS would not be free either, it would still likely come with the hardware for no additional cost as it did back when CBM was alive. It would certainly help adoption if the AmigaOS source code was more open and the cost of the AmigaOS low so the hardware could be cheaper, which should be possible by spreading out costs to mass produced hardware.

kolla Quote:

That market has no need for AmigaOS or its features (or rather, lack thereof), they are perfectly fine without any so called "real time" demands.


Let the competition decide. Some embedded system engineers would rather have memory protection and better security but they need to be careful that competitors don't come in with cheaper hardware doing the same thing and undercut them. Save $10 of hardware for a million devices and the company just saved $10 million. There is no one size fits all in the embedded market but the market is huge and growing. I believe the right Amiga product could have a presence in the embedded market just as the Raspberry Pi has created.

kolla Quote:

Regarding your "anecdotal evidence" regarding raspberry pi and embedding linux, why not link to the entire thread:

https://fcku.it/comp.arch/thread/3861809

So it becomes clear that you are rehashing and even copy'n pasting your own arguments and sentences from years back - clever! :) But it is also evident that you were fighting windmills also back there on that thread... let's bring up a nice quote...


I have nothing to hide. Someone doesn't have to be smart to use google. The example is a real embedded user trying to use Linux on a Raspberry Pi where the AmigaOS on '80s era hardware could likely handle what he is trying to do.

kolla Quote:

Also, the guy who struggled with so called "real-time" problems of Linux got the solution he should go for - throw hardware on it, don't let the OS and CPU of a computer - embedded or not - deal with stuff better handed over to a dedicated (and cheap) microcontroller. Imagine that, offloading time-critical stuff to a dedicated microcontroller... why does that ring a bell, hmmmmmmm??? Right, because that is EXACTLY what Amiga does too. And why does Amiga do this? Because if you throw it all on the CPU, it will not be so happy snappy anymore. Ever tried P96 in VESA mode, or CGFx on native Amiga chipset?


Yes, it is possible to add a $10 microcontroller to the embedded hardware but don't forget the example above which may cost millions of dollars extra. It is also possible to use a RTOS and not need the microcontroller. The microcontroller by itself could be controlled using external communication but then 2 computers are used when one which can handle real time needs while providing an easy to use and standard UI is simpler and cheaper. Ease of use is important as I showed above and a single embedded system using a standard enviroment which can handle all needs is easier to develop.

kolla Quote:

Your idea of an embedded 68k system that can run AmigaOS and have awesome snappy and lightweight graphics system doesn't rely on the CPU - it relies on the graphics chipset you will provide for it and the driver software you write for it.


It is the whole system including the hardware that makes the Amiga responsive and lightweight. Yes, the Amiga 68k CPU has low interrupt overhead and the super code density allows for a small footprint, the Amiga hardware uses DMA and the AmigaOS "had to be very slim" according to Carl Sassenrath.

https://youtu.be/ZlPhPQxQKRc?t=688

Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2021 at 04:04 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 18-Sep-2021 at 03:57 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 10:04:34
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10264
From: Greensborough, Australia

The work put into iBrowse commendable. But unfortunately it's practically useless. I installed the latest in my UAE so I didn't need to go around the block to download a file I wanted to use inside the emulation. But what I found is just looking for Amiga 68k files to download the sites don't work or not well at all. I found I had the old iBrowse bug again where MUI is missing from the gadgets and you can't change screen mode as there is no MUI menu to do it from. It's been years since I've seen this on this on the real thing. I found I had an old MUI3.8 68K version. So thought I would update it but no it can't be downloaded. For some reason no one thought uploading the latest 68K version to Aminet would be a good idea! Aminet may still have that old fashioned hard to use interface but at least it works! The only place is websites that are not compatible with Amiga. What is the point of this? If you do manage a download it doesn't work! UnArc complains files are missing. There's even a MUI thread from a months back about where to download it and still no answers!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 18:02:48
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1810
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Why don’t I have any such issues? :)

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
QuikSanz 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 19:14:47
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1166
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@kolla,

Most likely not looking in the right places.

Chris

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 23:01:00
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1810
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Have you tried using PSI to change the mode of the screen you havr set up for IBrowse?

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
walkero 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 18-Sep-2021 23:47:24
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2004
Posts: 392
From: Athens

@Hypex

I also didn't have those issues and I installed IBrowse a lot of times on my A1200, on emulator and on my X5000 with OS4. Also, I use iBrowse almost everyday. I find great that the javascript can be completely get disabled and visit the websites I want quite fast. And if I use it on my A1200, I disable the images as well, and I get the content I need super fast.

IBrowse in my opinion is quite useful, depending on what you want to do. No web banking, or web mails or web documents, but for searching information and visit Amiga websites, in my opinion works quite well.

If you, you can join me on one of my Friday streams at https://twitch.tv/walkerogr, where we use AmigaOS and see interesting software for every day usage. If you have issues with IBrowse, we can see them live. Or you can check my previous streams at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqkBhE7jGOVC0-dEmQJv5z5T6zvaa47U5

_________________
Amiga-Look.org - Beautify your Workbench

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bhabbott 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 12:11:24
#68 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 46
From: Aotearoa

@BSzili

Quote:

BSzili wrote:
@bhabbott

I don't disagree with what you said, but Microsoft is no longer a player in the browser business. They have also switched to Chromium for Edge, just like others (e.g. Opera).

So that means there's really only two 'compatible' broswers now? it's even worse than I thought!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bhabbott 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 12:33:04
#69 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 46
From: Aotearoa

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:

Option 7. Make mass produced Amiga hardware which is competitive again. Powerful and cheap enough hardware would mean most people could afford new hardware and would have enough performance and resources to use a more modern browser. Hardware with a good performance/price ratio may attract enough new users to interest developers. Current retro hardware interest may be an opportunity for the Amiga to get back back in the game.
Let's be realistic - the only game we are getting back into is retro computing. For that we don't want a machine powerful to use a more modern browser, because it would alienate existing Amiga users who aren't interested in 'upgrading' just to run bloated 'more modern' browsers.

Quote:
Yes, it is all about conformity but not to standards but to the modern mob brain dead mentality. You must upgrade like everyone else or there is something wrong with you! The same has happened with the Covid-19 vaccine here in the U.S. The brain dead mob rule President says we must get vaccinated or else we lose our job but...
Not at all the same. Amiga users aren't killing people by using a nonconformist computer and getting infected by a deadly virus (just in case you didn't know, Aukland is currently in level 4 lockdown and the rest of New Zealand is in level 2 as we try to eliminate Delta virus - and we are all following the rules to the letter to make sure we do it! I get my second injection tommorrow).


Quote:
Many people are using web site generation tools which produced lots of bloat. I worked on a web site at work which when I took it over was only a couple of simple pages yet used java (not javascript) and tens of thousands of copyright and fluff text bytes added to every page which was not displayed or unused from tools. I converted everything to HTML only and used a text editor. This gave super fast loading and it worked everywhere including smart phones and old computers.
I don't know much about modern website production but this is exaclty what I suspected was the case. No reason we can't insist that Amiga-centric sites continue to use plain HTML.

BTW for the naysayers, I am posting this from IBrowse on an Amiga 600 with Vampire card. It is just as reponsive on this site as my PC!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bhabbott 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 12:52:18
#70 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 46
From: Aotearoa

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:

It will not fix "the problem" of Amiga web browsers, though.

If the 'problem' is not being able to interact properly with all 'modern' websites then no, nothing will fix it. I have tried numerous 'modern' web browsers that will run on my Windows XP PC and they all have problems with some sites. Firefox 52 is actually the best except for certain sites (the list of which keeps growing) that just don't repond at all to clicking on things that should do something. Frustrating as hell, especially as my WIndows 7 latop has finally died - guess I will have to drag out the Linux box and find a place to put it.

My point is, if a relatively modern PC isn't good enough, what chance has the Amiga got?

Last edited by bhabbott on 19-Sep-2021 at 12:53 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 18:24:11
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10264
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
Why don?t I have any such issues? :)


None of them? I don't know. My UAE is based on my old A1200 OS3.9 setup.

So, you can open up iBrowse, search for "mui 68k", get a few results, be able to read the page, download a latest mui, open it in UArc, and extract it with no errors? I'd like to see that!

Come to think of it I am using a folder drive for my downloads if that affects it. But Aminet files download fine. UnArc is giving me a strange issue by putting underscores in some extracted file names. I can't figure that one out. Unless it's an old bug and I need to BoingBag it.

Quote:
Have you tried using PSI to change the mode of the screen you havr set up for IBrowse?


No, I forgot about that old tire. I haven't set up any screen for it, since I can't do it anywhere. I just went into the MUI settings from iBrowse, but I can't set the screen there. This is one of the things I dislike about MUI, it complicates the system, as it needs its own settings and MUI programs lack standard settings like screen modes. When something is missing, and it doesn't tell you, you can't set a screen mode because there is no option for it!

Last edited by Hypex on 19-Sep-2021 at 06:25 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 18:50:01
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10264
From: Greensborough, Australia

@walkero

I find this disabling of javascript to be completely bizarre. I thought this is one of those minimum dependencies these days for a website to even load. I expect a web site to break without it, not work better!

I mean, consider this, I'll just disable that pesky CSS on those websites, it loads faster and it all looks great!

Unheard of!

Seriously, all I'm trying to do is look for and download Amiga software. Not OS4 or any of that modern stuff. 68K. The real deal Amiga software. But all I find is ending up on sites needing CSS or otherwise looking crap. Like Github which hasn't even worked correctly in Odyssey in years. This is the problem. Unless it's been uploaded to Aminet you cant easily download Amiga software from AmigaOS anymore. The same goes for forums. Sometimes I just want to look up an issue but results are all scrambled.

I should see if I'm awake for the stream. Cheers.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Am!ga 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 21:53:47
#73 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Oct-2016
Posts: 18
From: Strawberry Fields

So, no modern browser for OS4.x ..

Going back to sleep for another year or so and checking back later. Hopefully by then I can get an new modern Amiga with a good browser.



 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
nbache 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 22:42:30
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1019
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@Am!ga

Sleeping doesn't solve anything.

Best regards,

Niels

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 23:16:00
#75 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1810
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Quote:

So, you can open up iBrowse, search for "mui 68k", get a few results, be able to read the page, download a latest mui, open it in UArc, and extract it with no errors?


Yes to all.

Quote:
I'd like to see that!


What - a video?

Quote:
Unless it's an old bug and I need to BoingBag it.


D'oh. Maybe you just need to update XAD from that ancient version 10 that came with OS 3.9.

Quote:

Quote:
Have you tried using PSI to change the mode of the screen you havr set up for IBrowse?


No, I forgot about that old tire. I haven't set up any screen for it, since I can't do it anywhere. I just went into the MUI settings from iBrowse, but I can't set the screen there.


It is right there, under "System" in the MUI prefs, under "Public Screen" you launch PSI using the "Call Inspector" button - like it ALWAYS was.

Quote:
This is one of the things I dislike about MUI, it complicates the system, as it needs its own settings and MUI programs lack standard settings like screen modes. When something is missing, and it doesn't tell you, you can't set a screen mode because there is no option for it!


PEBCAK. At least one can rely on all MUI programs to actually have settings for screen modes etc, unlike a vast ammount of other progrmas, for which quirky work-arounds like ModePro etc are needed. You argument fires right back at you.

Last edited by kolla on 19-Sep-2021 at 11:27 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 19-Sep-2021 at 11:17 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 19-Sep-2021 at 11:16 PM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 23:31:13
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1810
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Quote:

Seriously, all I'm trying to do is look for and download Amiga software. Not OS4 or any of that modern stuff. 68K. The real deal Amiga software.


Why would you use a web browser for that?

There are much better ways... for example you can use UHCTools - http://aminet.net/util/misc/UHCTools.lha (and I hope you know how to download a file from a simpe URL without using a browser?!)

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
matthey 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 19-Sep-2021 23:38:55
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1147
From: Kansas

bhabbott Quote:

Let's be realistic - the only game we are getting back into is retro computing. For that we don't want a machine powerful to use a more modern browser, because it would alienate existing Amiga users who aren't interested in 'upgrading' just to run bloated 'more modern' browsers.


The Raspberry Pi has minimal retro appeal yet created one of the most popular embedded form factor standards and sales are in the millions. Did PPC Amigas, FPGA Amiga hardware and Amiga accelerators alienate Amiga users? Is it more likely that emulated Amigas which are more powerful than any hardware Amiga currently available and which can run semi-modern browsers alienates more Amiga users than having powerful hardware?

There will be Amiga users playing with original 68000 Amigas for many years but I doubt anybody is using them on the web for much more than downloading something from Aminet. On the other hand, I expect there are many Amiga users who would love to have a powerful enough Amiga for most of the internet. Make this Amiga hardware cheap enough and I can't imagine anybody feeling alienated.

bhabbott Quote:

Not at all the same. Amiga users aren't killing people by using a nonconformist computer and getting infected by a deadly virus (just in case you didn't know, Aukland is currently in level 4 lockdown and the rest of New Zealand is in level 2 as we try to eliminate Delta virus - and we are all following the rules to the letter to make sure we do it! I get my second injection tommorrow).


Don't let emotions overrule science and do some research. Leaders have not been truthful about COVID-19 and the vaccine, much of the misinformation and disinformation sadly originating from the U.S. Many people have already had the virus and research studies so far indicate that the natural resistance (often called natural immunity) is a stronger resistance, longer life resistance, better resistance against variants and provides more resistance to being a carrier of the virus yet we are being required to get vaccinated to hold a job or travel. From the studies I have read, I question the logic in requiring children and pregnant and nursing mothers to vaccinate with vaccines rushed through approval. People vaccinated will likely be forced to get boosters for the rest of their life as the virus will not be "eliminated" with people using vaccines being susceptible to every new variant and the protection they have being lower.

Quote:

19. Viral carriage by the vaccinated is reflected in the recent outbreak in
Barnstable County, Massachusetts, which has a 69% vaccination coverage rate amount
its eligible residents. A recent CDC investigation found that 74% of those infected in
the outbreak were fully vaccinated for COVID-19 and, even more alarming, the
vaccinated had on average more virus in their nose than the unvaccinated that were
infected. The study reported zero cases of infection among those that previously had
COVID-19.


Even unvaccinated people would be minimal risk to you if the vaccines were effective enough but the vaccinated are getting the virus again and vaccinated people are now spreaders with asymptomatic spreaders (asymptomatic spreaders may get natural immunity/resistance while vaccinated spreaders may always be spreaders and especially susceptible to new variants). Your odds are better with the vaccine if you are old and/or have a weakened immune system. The research is showing lower incidence of hospitalization and death with vaccination for people who do get it, especially older age groups and people in poor health. The best research I have found which mentions many of the studies governments and the media often don't (including the quote above), comes from Dr. Aaron Kheriaty suing the University of California.

https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2021-09/kheriaty-UCalifornia-natural-immunity.pdf

Dr. Kheriaty also has a nice paper talking about the ethics of government mandates because of the virus.

Dr. Aaron Kheriaty Quote:

University leaders might claim that vaccine mandates are necessary to make faculty, staff
and students “feel safe” enough to reopen. That’s specious. Requiring the naturally
immune to be vaccinated doesn’t make anyone actually safer. It is wrong to risk harming
healthy people so that college can peddle a psychological placebo to those who don’t care
enough to consider basic scientific facts.

We must maintain our integrity under pressure. It is precisely in dire situations, such as
wars or pandemics, that we are most sorely tempted to abandon ethical principles.
Authorities rushing to implement mandatory vaccination protocols are ignoring available
scientific data, basic principles of immunology and elementary norms. Even if some
sincerely think that these regimes are needed to open safely, that belief neither makes it
so nor justifies coercive policies that steamroll fundamental liberties.


University Vaccine Mandates Violate Medical Ethics
https://07b259f3-7a04-4bc7-8bec-e3a2469917d2.filesusr.com/ugd/b26c37_3ee4cf4ab1c24f3e9d5b17028d832c7b.pdf

I'm sorry you are so blindly trusting of government mandates despite governments being so dangerous as history shows. Governments can do nothing except by force starting with taking your money and often followed with taking away your rights.

bhabbott Quote:

My point is, if a relatively modern PC isn't good enough, what chance has the Amiga got?


The Amiga port would be officially supported and a slower moving target compared to an outdated desktop target. There will always be poorly written web sites just like poorly written software which is best avoided though.

Last edited by matthey on 20-Sep-2021 at 12:59 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 7:19:49
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1810
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Your credibility just hit rock bottom, congrats.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bhabbott 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 8:44:24
#79 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 46
From: Aotearoa

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:

The Raspberry Pi has minimal retro appeal yet created one of the most popular embedded form factor standards and sales are in the millions.
The Raspberry Pi wasn't designed for retro appeal, but to provide an affordable alternative to embedded PCs. Predictably it is now being used as an Arduino replacement in applications it is poorly suited to. So while it was originally intended to be a lightweight platform for doing PC stuff without the bloat, it is now bloating the hobbyist embedded scene.

Surprisingly one of the better uses for a Pi is to add advanced hardware features such HDMI or a faster (emulated) CPU to classic Amigas, as enough information is now available to program it 'bare metal'. Without the bloat of Linux and Python etc. it can really fly! (though heat can be a problem).

Quote:
Did PPC Amigas, FPGA Amiga hardware and Amiga accelerators alienate Amiga users?
Accelerators as such no, but PPC certainly did. Nothing alienates users faster than telling them their hardware is fundamentally incompatible with your software.

Quote:
Is it more likely that emulated Amigas which are more powerful than any hardware Amiga currently available and which can run semi-modern browsers alienates more Amiga users than having powerful hardware?
There are no emulated real Amigas that can run semi-modern browsers (I don't class NG as Amiga). You can emulate an Amiga on a PC with UAE, but the experience is not the same (I find it quite frustrating compared to a real Amiga). UAE is good for cross development, but not so much for general use.

There's only one browser suitable for real Amigas and that's IBrowse, which is not 'semi-modern' apart from working with the latest TLS encryption. But IBrowse works well on classic Amiga systems that were popular in the '90's (as was IBrowse itself). This is the kind of support I want to see more of - producing affordable software (and hardware) that can be used on retro machines without losing their character. IMO the Vampire is the highest we should need to go, being only a little more powerful than a system with 060 and RTG that someone might have had 'back in the day'.

One thing I consider very important is allowing users of lower powered Amigas to experience recent Amiga developments such as IBrowse. An A1200 with 4MB FastRAM and a small hard drive runs it fine, just slower than my 50MHz 030. The idea is to not exclude low-end users just because you have decreed that they wont like the experience.

Quote:
There will be Amiga users playing with original 68000 Amigas for many years but I doubt anybody is using them on the web for much more than downloading something from Aminet.
I am active in several discussion groups that are accessible with IBrowse, and not just Amiga related ones. So far they are working fine - and I hope they continue to do so! IBrowse is also usable on many other websites such as Google and Wikipedia.

In some cases the Amiga actually does it better because I don't have to put up with advertising crap and embedded videos, or just bad web design clogging up the page. Of course I can't do Internet banking on my Amiga, but that's a good thing as far as security is concerned (my PC can't do it now either, so I use my phone which is actually more convenient).

Quote:
On the other hand, I expect there are many Amiga users who would love to have a powerful enough Amiga for most of the internet. Make this Amiga hardware cheap enough and I can't imagine anybody feeling alienated.
You will alienate people who want to continue using their classic Amigas like they always have.

Let's face it, if you really need a machine powerful enough for most of the Internet then you just use a modern PC. And the truth is that nothing less will be enough, But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to enjoy using your old Amiga for some of the Internet. Kudos to the IBrowse team and AmiSSL developers for making that happen!

Quote:
Don't let emotions overrule science and do some research. Leaders have not been truthful about COVID-19 and the vaccine, much of the misinformation and disinformation sadly originating from the U.S.
Yes, we all know about the Covid denial and antivax disinformation coming from the US. It was responsible for several clusters and a few deaths here in New Zealand. I can understand your being skeptical of authorities considering how Trump played down the danger and promoted misinformation, but I do trust my government which does listen to the science. We take every case seriously here - literally. We are a small country of 5 million with a vulnerable population, so we can't afford to have thousands of people dying or having long term illnesses.

AFAIK people in New Zealand who have contracted the virus and recovered from it don't need to get vaccinated. However we know who all these people are, and we are going for 100% vaccination of the rest. We also know that people who are immune can still carry the virus, so we don't let anyone in without testing to ensure they are clean. It's the only way to keep the virus out until we are all protected.

Quote:
Many people have already had the virus and research studies so far indicate that the natural resistance (often called natural immunity) is a stronger resistance, longer life resistance,
Sure, but getting immunity 'naturally' has high risks. Even those who appear to have fully recovered often suffer long term health issues that might not surface until later in life. I am old enough to remember kids (one in my own class) who were crippled by polio, and other childhood diseases that caused heart damage etc. You don't hear about that today because vaccinations eliminated those viruses.

Quote:
better resistance against variants and provides more resistance to being a carrier of the virus yet we are being required to get vaccinated to hold a job or travel. From the studies I have read, I question the logic in requiring children and pregnant and nursing mothers to vaccinate with vaccines rushed through approval.
If you had eliminated the virus in the early days like we did you might not have needed vaccinations, but too many people didn't treat it seriously so now it is becoming endemic. This created the Delta variant which is much harder to stamp out, making vaccination the only way (apart just letting everyone get it and have millions die). The reason you need to get vaccinated for travel etc. is that we don't trust you when you say you are immune / virus free. We have even caught people trying to get into the country with fake vaccination cards - how sick is that?

Quote:
People vaccinated will likely be forced to get boosters for the rest of their life as the virus will not be "eliminated" with people using vaccines being susceptible to every new variant and the protection they have being lower.
Yeah right. You say 'Don't let emotions overrule science and do some research' but I sense a lot of emotion in your stance. Actual virologists don't agree with your interpretation of the science.

Quote:
I'm sorry you are so blindly trusting of government mandates despite governments being so dangerous as history shows. Governments can do nothing except by force starting with taking your money and often followed with taking away your rights.
I'm sorry you live in a country where so many people are more concerned about their 'freedumbs' than whether they live or die. But I can understand why you would mistrust a government consisting of corrupt capitalists and religious nutcases who have managed to convince a population of useful idiots to vote against their own interests. Luckily in New Zealand we haven't suffered from much of that. We trust our government because they have proved to be trustworthy.

But this all a derail. Lets drop the Covid politics and stick to what we came here for - talking about what we are doing with our wonderful Amigas!

Tomorrow I might be feeling a bit down as my body responds to the vaccination. To keep my mind off it I will probably check out the latest posts on here and other sites using my Vampired A600, download and play some Mods while I do some 68k assembly language programming on the A1200 (running IBrowse in the background to reference development info on the web), and perhaps even play a bit of Tomb Raider running under PC-Task on the the A600 (slow, but still playable!).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rose 
Re: AmigaKit Website "Your Browser Sucks!" javascript message Update: Web Theme responsible, not AmigaKit!
Posted on 20-Sep-2021 9:01:17
#80 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 927
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@matthey

Your credibility just hit rock bottom, congrats.


+1

Tho him quoting psychiatrist as a authority on covid vaccines goes pretty much inline with his other quotes. Confirmation bias much....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle