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g01df1sh 
Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 21-Sep-2021 23:15:23
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1739
From: UK

Hi all

No news on A1222 no Sams to buy on Acube site. No OS4 hardware for sale on ebay. Has hyperion court case crap finally killed PPC developement. Some feed back from Hyperion and Aeon on what the delays are would be nice

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TiredofLife 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 0:06:33
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1676
From: Here

@g01df1sh

A strange question to ask on an Amiga website.
The demise of Commodore in the mid 90's hasn't managed to kill off development for the Amiga.

Cheers

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redfox 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 5:10:06
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1855
From: Canada

@g01df1sh

Perhaps there will be an update during AmiWest 2021.

Meanwhile, OS4 runs well on my ancient MicroA1 system.

---
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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 5:58:26
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11866
From: Norway

@g01df1sh

Most defiantly not going back to slower Amiga system, even vampire is on the slow side, not whery upgradeable, even with FPGA. I'm not into playing games, I say to myself so often it cool try this or that game, never get around to do it.

Sometimes its hard to know whatís going on, some software we get or updates or whatever, comes out of the blue, someone messing around with compiler and writing code.

Anyway with or without AmigaONE hardware if someone wonts to runs AmigaOS4 it is possible with WinUAE and other emulators, as well, if people wont run AmigaOS4 right now, they can buy it online, and get emulator up and running on their PC. Just like they can with older slower Amiga systems.

Naturally using emulators comes with limitation, and your really not being able to use the system as it was intended as modern computer that can almost do modern things. Like web browsing or looking at 4K videos. 3D games with texture mapping, shading, transform and lighting etc. 3D and Video has really come long way on AmigaONE systems like X5000 and X1000, even the Sam460 can do interesting stuff now. thanks to AEON / ACube-Systems and Hyperion Entertainment.

It takes lot dedicated people, who willing to offer their time, and is willing to offer a lot to make this thing happen.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Sep-2021 at 06:06 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Sep-2021 at 06:05 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Sep-2021 at 06:04 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Sep-2021 at 06:03 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Sep-2021 at 06:01 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 7:55:39
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 269
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Amiga Os 4.1 is immortal.
You can always use it on uae.
uae 68k emulation with MMU is very slow.
Amiga Os 4.1 on uae is very usefull for development and will be used for many years.

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amigang 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 9:27:44
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1650
From: Cheshire, England

@g01df1sh

Considering we finally got updates for os4 at the start of the year, plus es 2.0 finally came out I donít think they are considering ending support for os4 just yet.

A1222 I think has had a very though ride, itís a shame of the massive delay to the project, itís had the full Amiga curse, my guess is by the time the software was ready, the hardware was no longer, so they had to resource supply and now where in a different world where there a global chip supply shortage for a hobby project like this itís not a good time to be launching. Specially when it was to be the cheapest os4 machine.

But I also feel of the overall project now to keep on ppc is maybe the biggest problem. I think ppc made sense in 2000 when os4 began, even the revival project by a-eon in 2012 with the x1000 kinda made sense as ppc still had some big companies behind it. But now the costs to perform and the future of the cpu just no longer makes sense to me.

what also lunched the same year and even same month of the x1000, the first raspberry pi, little did anyone know back then that this would kickstart a new market of low cost hacking boards and the ever advancing mobile phone market and huge investment made the arm chip not only very quickly catch up to ppc levels of speed but passed it and now things like Apple m1 show that at certain things itís faster than the mighty top end x86 platform, I donít think anyone would of thought that would happen in just 10 years.

I made this point on my blog, https://amigang.com/amigaos4-ppc-future/

Where do A-eon, Hyperion, Cloanto anyone else involved see the os4 platform in 5, 10, 20 years time? I donít see the ppc chip situation improving.

Last edited by amigang on 22-Sep-2021 at 11:00 AM.

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Develin 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 9:47:31
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2006
Posts: 432
From: Karlstad, Sweden

@ppcamiga1

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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 10:40:51
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 240
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

There is a demand out there for AmigaOS 4.x hardware, but sadly nothing is available right now. Even the AmigaOne X5000 does not seem to be in stock at AmigaKit. When ACube Systems announced a new batch of Sam 460's, these were sold out quickly. Also, when (and it is not often) an AmigaOne or similar computer hits eBay, they usually go very fast.

My guess is that once the A1222 is released, things will start to pick up, as many new users will start tinkering with AmigaOS 4 and discover that it can be a fun system to use. Unfortunately it has taken many years, but if we are lucky, we might see a release of the A1222 at AmiWest? I'm hoping and crossing my fingers, but wouldn't that be fantastic?

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Rose 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 11:09:08
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 924
From: Unknown

@AmigaOldskooler

Quote:
My guess is that once the A1222 is released, things will start to pick up, as many new users will start tinkering with AmigaOS 4 and discover that it can be a fun system to use.


Considering that 9th of this month was last date to order P1022 before EoL I kinda doubt that they can manufacture A1222 in numbers that would make any difference.

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Hammer 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 16:48:06
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4270
From: Australia

@Rose

32-bit e500 based P1022/13 has been replaced by 64-bit e5500 based T1024/14 and T1023/13.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_e5500

The e5500 is based on the e500mc core and adds some new instructions introduced in the Power ISA 2.06 specification, namely some byte- and bit-level acceleration; Parity, Population count, Bit permute and Compare byte. The FPU is taken straight from the PowerPC e600 core, which is a classic fully pipelined dual precision IEEE 754 unit running at full core speed and supports conversion between 64-bit floats and integers, effectively twice as fast as the FPU in e500mc. The e5500 also introduces an enhanced branch prediction unit with an 8-entry link stack.

The e5500 core is the first 64-bit Power ISA core designed solely by Freescale and was introduced at Freescale Technology Forum in June 2010. Simulated models were available in July 2010, hard samples in late 2010 and full scale manufacturing the second half of 2011.

----------

P1022/13's custom FPU is a waste of time just like the CELL's SPEs. PowerPC has many dead-end extensions.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Sep-2021 at 04:56 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Sep-2021 at 04:54 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 22-Sep-2021 at 04:50 PM.

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amigadave 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 16:52:06
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@Rose

Quote:

Rose wrote:
@AmigaOldskooler

Quote:
My guess is that once the A1222 is released, things will start to pick up, as many new users will start tinkering with AmigaOS 4 and discover that it can be a fun system to use.


Considering that 9th of this month was last date to order P1022 before EoL I kinda doubt that they can manufacture A1222 in numbers that would make any difference.


How many OS4 users do you think there are in the world that don't already have a compatible OS4 system, and want to buy the A1222? Trevor purchased 1,000 P1022 CPU chips at the very beginning of development of the A1222, so he has at least that many to produce A1222 computers. That should be enough for at least a couple of years supply, if not more. It is very hard to gauge the interest for the A1222 at this point in time, I mean hard to know how many users asking about it will actually buy one when it is finally released. (Edit: I guess a better question would be why do you think that any number of A1222 systems sales could make any difference in the world of OS4 development. I guess enough hardware sales "could" motivate more developers to create more software for OS4, but it is not realistic to think that there will be several thousands, or tens of thousands of new OS4 users, just because the A1222 is finally released, when there doesn't appear to be that many users even interested in running OS4, and as you pointed out, it will be difficult or impossible to source that many P1022 CPU chips in the future.)

Given the current and past problems at Hyperion, interest in OS4 has definitely suffered and the number of users wanting to buy hardware to run OS4 has become less and less over the years. Trevor and Matthew have done their best to keep users interested in OS4, but have they been able to do enough to keep users confident that using OS4 now and into the future will be a fun and productive experience? Are there enough OS4 3rd party developers creating software to run on OS4 to keep it alive? MorphOS has some of the same problems with limited development of 3rd party software and their platform grows slowly even without all the drama that OS4 users have to put up with. I'm one of the users who has given up on ever using OS4 again, and I'm hoping that the MorphOS developers will soon have a version that can run on commonly available x64 hardware, and when that happens, I hope that we will see a dramatic increase in development of software for the new version of MorphOS, but until that happens, I'm happier to use Classic Amiga software on my old hardware, or via emulation on my PC laptop.

Personally, I think OS4 is very close to being "really dead", with only a couple hundred die hard users that will continue to use it no matter what happens to development and updates. Just think of where OS4 would be without A-Eon, AmigaKit, Trevor and Matthew?

Last edited by amigadave on 22-Sep-2021 at 05:08 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 16:57:22
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 924
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Wasn't me saying that things will start to pick up with "Many new users".

And I think that my idea of Many new users is something sliiiightly different than Amigans. I live in reality where 10 million shipped units is considered horrible failure while it being more than Amiga's ever manufactured.

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tommysammy 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 17:16:11
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Jan-2010
Posts: 658
From: Isselburg,Germany

I think that Os4 is dead

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amigadave 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 17:19:46
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@Rose

Yeah, my long rant was for everyone reading this thread, not aimed directly at you. I agree with you that there are not enough potential OS4 users left to make any difference, and that OS4 is doomed to be nothing more than a hobby for a few hundred users, or it may be abandoned completely in a couple years.

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amigadave 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 17:22:02
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@tommysammy

I agree, but hesitate to say it out loud on any Amiga forums, as it will only lead to senseless and useless debate that accomplishes nothing.

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AmigaOldskooler 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 19:20:22
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2015
Posts: 240
From: Unknown

Hehe, it was me that wrote "many new users", not Rose.

I was not thinking large numbers here of course, but "many" compared to the current situation.

Getting a few hundred new users would help a lot I think. Maybe it does not sound much, but should make a good impact.

If some of those make a blog describing their experience with AmigaOS 4, port programs or games, create artwork, play the games available and tell others about them, show their A1222's in videos on YouTube (some popular YouTuber's will likely make a review of the machine, spreading the word further - Imagine if Dan Wood made a review for example) and more (bring it to events etc.), it will sure help and could rekindle the enthusiasm of former AmigaOS 4 users and others. Rings in the water.

That is my hope.

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Fl@sh 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 19:22:58
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2004
Posts: 228
From: Napoli - Italy

@tommysammy

I think there is still some room for OS4, all recent ACube Sam 460ex\cr were sold in really few time.
The interest about Tabor and it's preorders says once it will be ready many thousands will be sold in few time.
Once will be finished ExecSG there will be a renewed interest in os4 side and some developers could be interested for new releases of their software to enable multicore support.
Maybe in next AmiWest event there could be some good news.

One day, I hope not too late, there will be also a new PowerPC notebook still in development and, even in this case, there will be a renewed interest.

In the end if os4 will be ever ported on power9 raptor blackbird machines, hardware will be no more a limit and with right software development os4 could have a second chance.

My2cents

Last edited by Fl@sh on 22-Sep-2021 at 08:54 PM.

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amigang 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 21:01:16
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1650
From: Cheshire, England

On my website I get many hits on the a1222 and I think there is still strong interest in Os4 and the machine.

I just really worry about the future of PPC more than anything really, the few companies involved in making ppc are not thinking desktop computers, there thinking special hardware (like the Mars rover is running on Ppc, maybe we could beam amigaos4 to it 😀). Which means chips are going to be expensive due to small production and not ideal for a desktop computer.

Even linux support for ppc is drying up.

plus the fact is the pi4 is very close to my x1000 in terms of performance, give it a year or two when the pi5 or 6 comes out. it most likely beat x5000 it might be fast enough to do ppc emulation so os4 could be run on £35 hardware itís going to hard for people think about paying for £1000+ hardware again for os4.

Who knows, I spoke to the pistorm dev and he said he saw no reason why in the future maybe it could be expanded to give you ppc support.

I canít help but think, wish and feel Amigaos would do well on arm. But I know the costs, work and legal mess where in itís not likely to happen so I suppose if your an os4 fan this is the best we can do with the platform at the moment.

Last edited by amigang on 22-Sep-2021 at 09:10 PM.

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g0blin 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 21:20:35
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Mar-2009
Posts: 665
From: Unknown

@thread

As much as it hurts saying this, OS4 is dead and it's simply not worthy developing for it anymore.

I just released a game for OS4 machines (and many other platforms) a couple of weeks ago, and it went totally unnoticed. The game, "Cybersphere", was announced on this very website (among many other Amiga channels) but it sold just a ridiculous amount of copies.

Yet, this is not the rant of a disappointed developer (although I am disappointed, of course): simply, the community seems to no longer be there to support independent devs. I am not saying that someone has to buy my game even though he/she thinks it is crap, but I put over three years of my life into it for nothing, exactly like many other developers out there. And if no one supports the devs, they will never be able to evolve and produce superior products. This means we will never attract new users, and since the installed fanbase doesn't need the hardware, we will just keep stagnating. This is death, even though people pretend not to see it.

Once an Amiga always an Amigan, but as far as coding for OS4 goes ... I'm done.

My best regards to y'all, my friends.

Gianluca aka g0blin


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utri007 
Re: Is it game over for OS4
Posted on 22-Sep-2021 22:38:32
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 1030
From: United States of Europe

@g0blin

I visit amiga forums every day and this is first time I heard this game.

With help I of google I found this https://www.gdg-entertainment.it/index.html but there is only demo, no idee where I could buy this game. How and where I can buy it?

I'm not a friend of this kind of games, I but I have bought quite much stuff just to support devs. I prefer a digital versions, because I just don't like boxes, they require too much space.

How well win / Mac versions are sold, compared to Amiga OS4 and Morph OS versions?

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