Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6029 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
56 crawler(s) on-line.
 15 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 michalsc:  7 mins ago
 Futaura:  17 mins ago
 pavlor:  44 mins ago
 AndreasM:  1 hr 44 mins ago
 Karlos:  1 hr 54 mins ago
 VooDoo:  2 hrs 4 mins ago
 Trixie:  2 hrs 11 mins ago
 BigD:  2 hrs 33 mins ago
 ian-uk:  3 hrs 26 mins ago
 cdimauro:  4 hrs 3 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )
PosterThread
Hypex 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 1-Nov-2021 17:01:45
#161 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10548
From: Greensborough, Australia

@bennymee

Quote:
Well Aros does not run on the Amigaone's which is the target of V2 / V54 and problably Aeon.


Well actually, technically, yes it can. AROS can run hosted on PPC. I installed it to my XE Linux and it ran fine. In fact really well. It even runs fine on my X1000. A testament to how well PowerPC can run 32-bit code on a 64- bit CPU as well AROS able to run on both with no changes. Sure it's not directly bootable but more work is needed for that and there is already ub2lb since years for PPC that can boot AROS.

Quote:
Another thing, notice that the Frieden Brothers are within the development team, so their work for Hyperion will halt (?). If V54 does give us new features and Hyperion's OS4 will get no major updates anymore, the choice becomes easier.


They wrote ExecSG and know how it works. So they really need to be on the team. But no I wouldn't say their work for Hyperion would halt since ExecSG is still being used.

However, copying an OS module by module is no trivially small operation. Even now, I can tell you that they have got it wrong. I've used those commands they redid and they don't work correctly. I've had scripts suddenly fail and found it was because Updater corrupted my system. That may sound slightly offensive but the fact is they are copying commands for no good reason I can see and if you are going to copy something then copy it right. Otherwise like AmigaOS is not AmighaOS. A song that goes like this is not the song, it is a cover version that will sound fake!

I've spent the last few months experiementing with MorphOS and when people think it should have replaced AmigaOS I think they have joking and have never really used it. There are no commodities included. You can't edit icons. Info has no menu. But what has really done my head in is MorphDOS. It doesn't use AmigaOS key shortcuts. Commands don't work the same. It quotes quotes so "" becomes """" which breaks stuff. It has other annoying quirks I forget. To borrow a Jewish expression, it just isn't POSIX.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 1-Nov-2021 17:43:39
#162 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1171
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:

I wouldn't say their work for Hyperion would halt since ExecSG is still being used.


”Is still being used”?! OS4.1 was released in 2008. OS4.1 Final Edition in 2014. Since then it seems pretty halted if you ask me. Obviously the true meaning of ”Final Edition”.

AeonKit took over ExecSG in 2019? Half a decade after the last OS4-version was released? They are obviously working on their own Amiga OS replacement. This is confirmed in post #16 in this very thread, where Matthew Leman himself very clearly states that AeonKit is taking utmost care to stay clear of OS4 OS development and only engage developers who hasn’t come in contact with OS4 or Amiga source code in order to not polluting their own independed work with old copyrights. AeonKit will not work on OS4. Except for a handfull of enthusiasts trying to iron out some old bugs on their own, I think noone has been working on OS4 for a very long time.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigakit 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 1-Nov-2021 17:49:23
#163 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2430
From: www.amigakit.com

@Hypex

Quote:
Even now, I can tell you that they have got it wrong. I've used those commands they redid and they don't work correctly. I've had scripts suddenly fail and found it was because Updater corrupted my system.


Have you tried the latest updates? We are implementing commands from scratch so it is understandable their maybe initial bugs but real world testing has recently helped our devs get the commands to a level of high quality. If we have an issue reported, we investigate and fix quickly.

Quote:
That may sound slightly offensive but the fact is they are copying commands for no good reason I can see


There are very good reasons:

- our commands are not based on Commodore source code so it is unaffected by the legal issues that have plagued OS4 for many years and continue to do so.

- we have the freedom to update or port them when we wish and implement features for customers on request.

- they form a basis for our bootable distributions on Next Gen and Classic.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OneTimer1 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 1-Nov-2021 18:01:02
#164 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 747
From: Unknown

@Birbo

Quote:

Birbo wrote:

Has anyone started AROS for ARM? (ARMAROS?)


Michal was working on an AROS port with the same byte ordering as AOS3. He was aiming to a transparent emulation of AOS3 (like in AOS4 or MOS) where 68k software could directly access the shared structures of the ARM-AROS without the need of UAE.

There is another ARM AROS with Intel byte ordering running hosted on Linux or on Android, so you can use it on a RasPi

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 01-Nov-2021 at 06:01 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 1-Nov-2021 23:22:22
#165 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1171
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Quote:

amigakit wrote:

- they form a basis for our bootable distributions on Next Gen and Classic.


Well, it’s a free world I suppose, and you’ll do what you have to do. But there are already two other “bootable distributions” out there with 2-2.5 decades head start to yours. They are called MorphOS and AROS. The latter one can be freely improved upon by anyone. Including you. I can’t just imagine why anyone would be starting to invent the same 1990’s wheel once again, for the fourth time, now in 2021…

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 2-Nov-2021 10:50:25
#166 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6059
From: Unknown

@amigakit

as Tripos said there is already AROS

Even MorphOS Team (in the past) used AROS codes to create the new OS. You can partly use it or completely. You just have to give back code if you directly change existing sources. What you add to it can stay closed. If you not use AROS you can only copy existing binaries from 3.1 or 4.X and try to exchange some of the binaries without breaking everything

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
SHADES 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 2-Nov-2021 23:08:01
#167 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 712
From: Melbourne

@kolla

I meant also for the legacy stuff. Have an AGA library, or a CIA library that do the interpretations to new hardware.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AP 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 10:05:42
#168 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@OlafS25: System54 is a AmigaOS4-Distribution and as such compatible with AmigaOS4. So the comparison with AROS or MorphOS is not 100% accurate. You still need AmigaOS4 for System54.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 11:45:33
#169 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1171
From: Unknown

@AP

Quote:

AP wrote:

You still need AmigaOS4 for System54.


Only because native things are still missing, so gaps needs to be filled with with already existing components. The situation was the same for AROS, MorphOS and OS4 in very early days. But it doesn’t change the fact that the long term goal is to create a new OS replacement. AeonKit even says so in this very thread, and also why they are doing it. No need to be confused about the thing.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kolla 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 12:00:41
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2043
From: Trondheim, Norway

"open source just leads to forking and splits!"

- OS3.9
- MorpOS
- OS4
- OS3.2
- System 54

Mmmm, right.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AP 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 12:20:55
#171 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@TRIPOS: The main-difference is that AROS and MorphOS are not compatible with AmigaOS4, System54 is (and hopefully will be in the future).

And the OS replacement may be an idea/plan b for the future, at the moment it's a distribution, like Icaros is a AROS-distibution. The difference is, that Sytem54 does not contain the whole OS.

Last edited by AP on 03-Nov-2021 at 12:21 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
kamelito 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 12:26:55
#172 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 788
From: Unknown

@amigakit

iIRC CBM used ARP starting with 2.0 release. Why not just track down the authors to get access to the source code?. CBM might not even have exclusive right and it is a better starting point than from scratch.

Last edited by kamelito on 03-Nov-2021 at 12:27 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 12:55:57
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6059
From: Unknown

@AP

the idea seems to be like amikit copying files from 3.5 or 3.9

But amikit is easier to do because they use the original files + patches but system54 wants to recreate and replace core parts like graphics library without sources and knowing dependencies. To me that looks much more complicated and it will lead to incompatiblities very propably.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TRIPOS 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 13:46:50
#174 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1171
From: Unknown

@AP

Quote:

AP wrote:
@TRIPOS: The main-difference is that AROS and MorphOS are not compatible with AmigaOS4, System54 is (and hopefully will be in the future).

And the OS replacement may be an idea/plan b for the future, at the moment it's a distribution, like Icaros is a AROS-distibution. The difference is, that Sytem54 does not contain the whole OS.



Ikaros is a package that uses the AROS components, hence it’s a distribution of AROS. But AeonKit’s ”System 54” does not come with any OS4 files, it re-implements the OS4 files by its own components and currently depend on OS4 files that the user must provide himself to fill the gaps, hence it can in no way be called a ”distribution” of OS4 by any definition of the word. It’s a re-implementation, period. Even if they would provide the users with a copy of OS4 to go with it, it would still be a bundle rather than a distribution. And the compatibility remains to be seen. Seeing how users above is already testifying about the simple things like the re-implemented dos-commands does not work as expected suggest you shouldn’t get your hopes worked up too high in that regard. How good or bad this fourth re-implementation of Amiga will be remains to be seen, but under any circumstances it will not be a distribution of OS4. Staying clear of OS4 is AeonKit’s main motivator in doing this.

Last edited by TRIPOS on 03-Nov-2021 at 01:56 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AP 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 15:00:41
#175 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@TRIPOS: It´s obvious that A-EON can't deliver their distribution with AOS4-files, isn't it (court-cases anyone?)?

And they don't re-implement ALL AOAS4-components, they implement components they need to have a self-booting distro (with the possibility to prepare your hard disk, install AOS4- and Enhancer-components etc.).

So it's of course a distro at the moment, the installer copies original AOSA4-files and install them together with the Enhancer-components on a separate partition. It's the possibility to have another installation with all Enhancer-improvements on a separate partition and keep your "clean" AOS4-installation.

I just installed System54 on my X5000 as a betatester so I think I can give an (general) opinion of it. But no, I will give no further details about the status of System54.

Last edited by AP on 03-Nov-2021 at 03:00 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 15:03:13
#176 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10548
From: Greensborough, Australia

@TRIPOS

Quote:
”Is still being used”?! OS4.1 was released in 2008. OS4.1 Final Edition in 2014. Since then it seems pretty halted if you ask me. Obviously the true meaning of ”Final Edition”.


The last kernel available is from January this year. So 2021 also saw the release of another ExecSG update. I wouldn't call that halted. And the "Final Edition" jokes were made long ago. I can see your point but if they can market gambling in this day and age as "Ladbrokes" then names have lost meaning or the assume the customer is too stupid to see it. Maybe Petro is behind both campaigns selling ice to Eskimos.

Quote:
AeonKit took over ExecSG in 2019? Half a decade after the last OS4-version was released? They are obviously working on their own Amiga OS replacement. This is confirmed in post #16 in this very thread, where Matthew Leman himself very clearly states that AeonKit is taking utmost care to stay clear of OS4 OS development and only engage developers who hasn’t come in contact with OS4 or Amiga source code in order to not polluting their own independed work with old copyrights. AeonKit will not work on OS4. Except for a handfull of enthusiasts trying to iron out some old bugs on their own, I think noone has been working on OS4 for a very long time.


Not to mention the free update offered by Hyperion from January this year which includes the updated ExecSG. But AeonKit didn't take over ExecSG, Trevor did. I can see a conflict of interest.

Constant work is done on OS4. Beta testers have new components to test almost every day. The results of their efforts tend to be comnbined into a delayed affect such as in the last Update 2.

Looks like a bit of a mutiny afoot. Hyperion rely on AEON to provide drivers as FE is an incomplete OS with broken software included. Not only do AeonKit have OS4 in some kind of entrapment in that arrangement, but now seek to destroy OS4 by making their own clone of it? How rude!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
AP 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 15:12:33
#177 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 615
From: Vienna/Austria

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@AP

the idea seems to be like amikit copying files from 3.5 or 3.9.


It's comparable, yes. And Amikit is a distribution, right?

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 15:14:28
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10548
From: Greensborough, Australia

@amigakit

Quote:
Have you tried the latest updates? We are implementing commands from scratch so it is understandable their maybe initial bugs but real world testing has recently helped our devs get the commands to a level of high quality. If we have an issue reported, we investigate and fix quickly.


No I've avoided them. After the Update 2 fiasco, which my system is still in a broken state from. I've banned system updates to my system. I don't want my Workbench to break again while it still works.

Quote:
There are very good reasons:

- our commands are not based on Commodore source code so it is unaffected by the legal issues that have plagued OS4 for many years and continue to do so.

- we have the freedom to update or port them when we wish and implement features for customers on request.

- they form a basis for our bootable distributions on Next Gen and Classic.


Being based on Commodore source code makes it genuine. It's the only thing giving the AmigaOne platform a market. But AROS already provided most of those commands as open source. Seems this is reinventing a wheel that has already been invented and turned a few times. Unless the end game is ARM or x86 it looks like a lot of effort to produce the same result.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigakit 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 15:31:37
#179 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2430
From: www.amigakit.com

@Hypex

Quote:
After the Update 2 fiasco, which my system is still in a broken state from.


Update 2 is nothing to do with A-EON, it is a Hyperion update which was accumulated updates dating back to 2014.

Quote:
Constant work is done on OS4. Beta testers have new components to test almost every day. The results of their efforts tend to be comnbined into a delayed affect such as in the last Update 2.


That sounds like a lot of productive work is underway. Maybe another update will be forthcoming very soon.


Quote:
Looks like a bit of a mutiny afoot. Hyperion rely on AEON to provide drivers as FE is an incomplete OS with broken software included.


A-EON owned components included in OS4 are not just drivers: Ringhio Notifications, PCIGraphics (Amigaone.card), MediaToolBox, SP Engine, PTP driver etc. Of course there are drivers such as ATIRadeon.chip owned by A-EON. RadeonHD driver is not included in OS4 and is sold separately in the Enhancer Software.

These will be used in future separate projects and augmented with original software to create larger works.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Why is OS4 not in the hands of A-EON?
Posted on 3-Nov-2021 18:16:12
#180 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12101
From: Norway

@SHADES

Well, no software is going to use that,
but you can port assembler to C, like I’m doing.

https://github.com/khval/libcopper.library
https://github.com/khval/Libblitter.library
https://github.com/khval/chipset.library

Anyway, if anyone want to help, that be cool.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle