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      /  What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
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Poll : What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Chipset
Software
Both
Pancakes
 
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 10:47:59
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6072
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

Even Aros has to run on hardware...


If you rule out current hardware platforms where should it run?

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OlafS25 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 10:51:51
#122 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6072
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

I would say it that way... better to have a growing retro platform than something "NG" with people still dreaming of becoming shining like in the past

I am content how 68k currently develops and do not really care about the other platforms. For "serious work" I have enough options. Amiga is for "fun"

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 15:36:33
#123 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:

The chipset in FPGA hardware


chipset in FPGA will be replica not original.

Quote:

The Amiga was reasonably priced, especially considering the technology and quality.


OCS and ECS Amiga. AGA not so much.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 15:38:25
#124 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

if fishy_fis want people to use x86/arm he have to provide something worth of use.

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kolla 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 19:05:08
#125 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Quote:

The chipset in FPGA hardware


chipset in FPGA will be replica not original.


Why?

All Amiga systems were sold with replicas - the originals remained with the engineers.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

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matthey 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 21:07:48
#126 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1467
From: Kansas

ppcamiga1 Quote:

chipset in FPGA will be replica not original.


Here is one of the original Amiga chipsets in the wire wrapped breadboards.



Did your CBM Amiga look like that?

ppcamiga1 Quote:

OCS and ECS Amiga. AGA not so much.


AGA in 1992 was higher technology, a better value and more competitive than ECS in 1991. Amiga customers were buying Amiga 1200s instead of Amiga 600s which indicates AGA made the Amiga more competitive. AGA being late and CBM failing to realize the importance of fully deploying it in all their Amiga products to remain competitive was likely a major factor in the demise of CBM.

SAGA > AGA > ECS > OCS

The best part is the chipset improves while remaining mostly compatible all the way back to OCS. Is it really so difficult to understand?

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Srtest 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 21:14:30
#127 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 258
From: Israel, Haderah

@OlafS25
"and do not really care about the other platforms

Yeah sure pal. Your idea of fun is indeed something to behold. I guess Aros looks like what you imagine Amiga as opposed to all those NG's and their fantasies about contemporaries.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 21:48:18
#128 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

@matthey

AGA was crap that has not chunky pixels.
In 1992 pc/mac/atari has chunky pixels.
developers on pc/mac/atari in 1992 just use 256 or hicolor and don't need to deal with bitplanes.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 21:49:51
#129 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

@kolla

Because it was not made by Commodore.
Commodore bankrupt in 1994.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 21-Nov-2021 22:41:38
#130 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

but more important is that Commodore never really change blitter.
it was too slow and this will never change. it is history.

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agami 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 22-Nov-2021 0:12:31
#131 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 903
From: Melbourne, Australia

Broken record much?

_________________
All the way, with 68k

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kolla 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 22-Nov-2021 0:15:42
#132 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2051
From: Trondheim, Norway

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
In 1992 pc/mac/atari has chunky pixels.


Only on models that were comparable in price with «bigbox» Amiga featuring graphics card.

Quote:
developers on pc/mac/atari in 1992 just use 256 or hicolor and don't need to deal with bitplanes.

In 1992, 256 colour modes were..
* rare
* extremely low resolution
* expencive

At the time I took computer courses at univ in 1993/4, the mac labs were all monochrome mac II systems except for _one_ that had colour display. Apple were trying to push the brand new "colour classic" with its 10" 512 x 384 on us students for a ridiculous ammount of money (A1200 x 3?). Look at the Falcon, having chunky did not save it.

_________________
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Srtest 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 22-Nov-2021 10:39:01
#133 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 258
From: Israel, Haderah

@kolla

https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/dune-ii-the-building-of-a-dynasty/techinfo

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 22-Nov-2021 15:30:30
#134 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

@kolla

In 1992 pc/mac/atari has chunky pixels.
on cheap pc with price comparable to a1200

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matthey 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 23-Nov-2021 22:45:00
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1467
From: Kansas

@Srtest Quote:

https://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/dune-ii-the-building-of-a-dynasty/techinfo


VGA 320x200 with 256 colors mode 13h

1987 VGA 256kiB (only 64kiB of video memory are addressable in 320x200 256 color 13h mode)
1987 8514/A 512kiB or 1MiB (added 1024x768x8@43.5Hz interlaced and 640x480x8@60Hz bitplane modes with 1MiB video ram option but not a popular standard)
1988 SVGA 256+kiB (quasi-standard supporting 640x480x8 depending on hardware)
1990 XGA (IBM was no longer setting the standards)

VGA was the standard into the '90s but didn't have enough video ram to do 640x480 in 256 colors. The 1MiB 8514/A graphics accelerator with memory expansion cost $1560 when introduced by IBM in 1987 and that was piggybacked to an existing VGA adapter.

http://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-8514a-graphics-accelerator/

The 8514/A standard added planar modes like the Amiga chipset used at higher resolutions. It also added 2D acceleration with a blitter like the Amiga chipset but with a big bottleneck to the VGA video memory. SVGA was a non-IBM developed quasi-standard with different amounts of video memory and resolutions supported depending on the hardware. One of the first games to use SVGA was the Links 386 Pro golf game released in 1992 for MS-DOS (predecessor Links the Challenge of Golf was released in 1992 for the Amiga).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_386_Pro

The game required a 386, 2MiB of memory and VL-Bus SVGA (VL-Bus was a competitor of the newer PCI bus). There was a performance test utility included with the game to test the video card video transfer rate. Video hardware was struggling even with a slow to update golf game. The Amiga version of Links used 4096 colors in low resolution which was generally considered superior to 256 color VGA despite also being slow.

http://shot97retro.blogspot.com/2020/10/links-golf-in-depth-written-review-of.html

It's too bad there was not an AGA version of Links released which may have competed with the 640x480x8 SVGA graphics but the bigger problem was CBM not upgrading the CPU performance. It wasn't as much SVGA which boosted PC clones past the Amiga but rather the 486 and Pentium. PC clones did get incremental video hardware upgrades with faster video memory and buses but gaming was stuck with the low resolution 320x200 in 256 colors VGA standard until games like Links Golf in 1992 and Doom in 1993 started to push the hardware past the popular 386+VGA standard.

Last edited by matthey on 23-Nov-2021 at 10:46 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 12:55:10
#136 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2004
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Some pople here thinks that if they attack enough long there will be switch to x86 or arm.


No.
No-one says or thinks that no matter how much you spew such nonsense.
You seem paranoid based on delusions. You should look into that.

Quote:
Nobody sane will waste time on aros on x86 or arm when everything may be done many times faster on win/lnx/osx


And yet you constantly talk up ppc and big endian Amiga based systems.
I also very clearly stated within the very post you're responding to that everything about the hobby is archaic apart from some of the hardware AROS runs on, that its nothing but a fun hobby, and that only delusional people would ever think otherwise.

Is comprehension not your strong suit? (rhetorical; you couldn't be more transparent).

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fishy_fis 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 13:09:40
#137 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2004
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

if fishy_fis want people to use x86/arm he have to provide something worth of use.


No, I really don't. Its freaking weird that you think that.
Even weirder that you'd vocalise it.

People can use whatever they like. I couldn't care less.
Care to show me a single time where I've said I want people to use arm or x86? I like modern hardware and think its stupid to place barriers to access a struggling platform, but thats about it. It is what it is.
Also, believe it or not, but a person can get entertainment from a circus without being invested.
If something is funny I'll mock it.
Contrary to the apparent voices in your head its that simple.

Must blow your mind that I have and use 68k, arm, ppc and x86 machines. I've even done some development for 68k and ppc.

Any more crap to spew?

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 20:01:01
#138 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 434
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

It is stupid to use on commodity hardware os that is more than twenty years behind commodity os.

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OlafS25 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 21:00:18
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6072
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

yes then you are stupid because why are you here then?

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fishy_fis 
Re: What defines Amiga: chipset or software?
Posted on 24-Nov-2021 22:31:00
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2004
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

So, mostly commodity hardware that is multiple times more expensive, and dozens of times weaker is the way to go then, just as long as it uses an isa that has been more or less abandoned, with software controlled by incompetent people with a fetish for court?
Anything AmigaOS, or derived is similar levels of archaic.
I've said this multiple times now, making your transparent little shots at AROS in 3 out of 4 posts "in retaliation" both hilarious and pathetic.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 24-Nov-2021 at 10:42 PM.

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