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Poll : 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
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amigang 
2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 15-Dec-2021 22:42:31
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1734
From: Cheshire, England

Next year is looking really good,

A1222, I mean I think if the A1222 doesn't launch even in small numbers next year then I think the project really is in trouble, another OS4 update would be nice, interested in seeing what happens with System 54, but still feel the market has to shift away from PPC to survive long term, we will see.

A500 mini launch, putting Amiga back in the high streets and targetting the more main stream market, might just bring back some people who been away from the market for a while, or get new people interested, might be a huge moment for our community, depending on how it goes.

Pistorm for A1200 market will be interesting and of course further improvements to Vampire/Apollo systems.

Really hope the lawsuit between Cloanto & Hyperion is sorted out.

Hope Amiga shows come back

Quite a few intresting games and project all in the works due for next year, it feel like quite a big year for Amiga world, or at least i hope it is. whats your view?


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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 15-Dec-2021 23:08:03
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12005
From: Norway

@amigang

Quote:
feel the market has to shift away from PPC to survive long term



should we shift away from 680x0 as well? Or is that not the same question?

Why this 680x0 is future, and PPC is crap, can we stop eating the propaganda raw.

Start using the system instead of worrying about CPUís no one want to use anyway, you can pick up AROS and you have what you are asking for, AROS work on ARM, and x86, Itís not like lots of developers and users flock to it, why is that?

Software tools, program, game and legacy? do people expect the same thing as they do on their Mac or Windows, or people looking for something else? And if it the something else, then we need to find our self, stop being so commercial.

Enjoy what we have, don't waste your time with things that does not exist, is not going to be like you want it anyway. Nor do we have developer resources to proceed with it any way, not the funding for drivers and eco system around the OS.

You should dam happy about we have on AmigaOS4, and consider yourself lucky owner of a AmigaONE-X1000. If not your maybe in the wrong place. If not get Mac or PC and do what need to do. But don't come cry back when regret selling it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Dec-2021 at 11:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Dec-2021 at 11:10 PM.

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Rose 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 15-Dec-2021 23:32:28
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 967
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

TF1260 alone sold +500 units in ~6 months. How many PPC systems were sold during that time?

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amipal 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 0:15:13
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1903
From: Saltdean, East Sussex, UK

@amigang

I reckon the A500 Mini is going to have a massive impact.
There'll be a lot of people out there buying them to remind themselves of the late 80s/early 90s, and I hope a fair few of them decide to push further with it - to load more games onto the system, and begin to explore Workbench.

It's a slippery slope, as many of us have found!

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matthey 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 1:06:41
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1297
From: Kansas

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

should we shift away from 680x0 as well? Or is that not the same question?

Why this 680x0 is future, and PPC is crap, can we stop eating the propaganda raw.


The propaganda has been pro PPC since the demise of CBM. It is time to end the propaganda and return to the much loved Amiga 68k CPU which is what the majority of Amiga users want. There is a reason why PPC died so quickly with so few fans fighting to save it.

amipal Quote:

I reckon the A500 Mini is going to have a massive impact.
There'll be a lot of people out there buying them to remind themselves of the late 80s/early 90s, and I hope a fair few of them decide to push further with it - to load more games onto the system, and begin to explore Workbench.

It's a slippery slope, as many of us have found!


Surely THEA500 Mini will have a bigger impact if it sells in near mass production quantities as I expect but I believe it will be an underwhelming toy. Will THEA500 Mini wet people's appetite or disappoint them?

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agami 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 1:35:25
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 733
From: Melbourne, Australia

@amigang

Let's face it, the bar has been set pretty low over the intervening years.
Even when things are announced, the delivery of most things takes way longer than most Kickstarter projects.
The Apollo Vampire Team has noticeably improved. Accelerators announced one year can generally be expected the following year, or certainly the year after that.

But in reality, it should be the year of software, and more importantly it should be the year of software for the 68080 + SAGA systems.

What is the install base for Vampire V2 accelerators across A500, A600, and A1200, and V4 Standalone? I'd venture it is larger than the install base of AmigaOS 4.x.
Would you say that users with a Vampire Amiga experience, on average, turn on their computers more often than those with an AmigaOS 4.x machine?

For me, what would make 2022 the biggest Amiga year since the '90s would be the porting of a webkit-based browser to the 68080.
Let's see how far these puppies can go.

If you or someone you know is thinking about, or would be interested in porting existing or writing new software for the 68080 + SAGA Vampire platform, DM me if you need funding.

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bison 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 4:26:33
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1959
From: N-Space

@amigang

No, it's not going to touch the 90s. But it will be a better year if the lawsuit is settled, one way or other.

Last edited by bison on 16-Dec-2021 at 04:27 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 7:12:01
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 409
From: Unknown

@matthey

Motorola switch to ppc thirty years ago because it was unable to compete with Intel.
After almost thirty years 68k is as slow as it was.
Prices of ASIC 68k with mmu and fpu skyrocket.
Full 060 can reach one thousand Euro. It is pure BS.
FPGA 68k is still slower than first ppc cards for Amiga.
There will be no switch to real 68k.
It is to expensive and too slow.
We may use it but we not resign from ppc.

x86 and arm Amiga solutions are not better than twenty one years old uae with jit
and still not worth to spend free time coding for it.

So there will be no switch from ppc.


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amigang 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 8:56:25
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1734
From: Cheshire, England

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Why this 680x0 is future, and PPC is crap,

Well fpga chips can emulate 680x0 and even cheap mass produce Arm chips can emulate the platform this makes a huge new market for this platform, 68x is likely not the best way of pushing the Amiga forward but it still kind of is thanks to 68080 and JIT being so quick. One quick example is 3D renders in lightwave can done in minutes that would take hours / days on old Amigas. Add to that new markets / opportunities are happening like A500 mini are happing

Quote:
Start using the system instead of worrying about CPUís no one want to use anyway,

If my x1000 hadnít developed an issue Iíd likely would be on it. But playing around in Amikit Xe instead.

Quote:
You should dam happy about we have on AmigaOS4, and consider yourself lucky owner of a AmigaONE-X1000.


I am happy (when it work) to all the developers and a-eon / Amikit itís amazing work, if I come across ungrateful Iím very sorry. Itís in fact because Iím so impress by the work done on os4 I feel itís a shame it stuck on expensive platform and a platform that is letís face it struggling to survive.

It a real shame that a-eon where not able to make more x1000 and lower the costs all the dev time to port the OS to this platform all for maybe the 500 machines is a dam shame, it was out of there hands though when Apple bought P.A Semis another unfortunate dice had been thrown against a potential comeback, I think the x1000 did create new momentum in the community and dev space, we got blender update, we got Firefox port, Os4 got a number of updates it was a great time.

But a platform out of our hands stop maybe a slightly bigger come back, that kinda my issue with Ppc. If the x1000 had never stop production and even let say come down in price (they could of just sold the motherboard) then OS4 I think would be a healthier position now. rather than the further two years limbo users who missed out had to wait for X5000, by the point that got released development had slowed on both Os4 and on third party apps, again this is not really the fault of anyone, its just the way it played out unfortunately.

http://www.generationamiga.com/2020/07/06/nxp-to-discontinue-support-for-p1022-in-2021/

All the current chips even the one made for a1222 is becoming an end of life chip, how many are made, it might be enough for the Amiga market but I canít help but feel the out look doesnít look great long term.

There is a little bit of hope as the x86 platform get more powerful, PPC emulation hopefully get easier that might bring new interest, just like when os4 classic could run on winuae. Arm ppc emulation needs some more development but this thread gives me hope,
https://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10702
iPhone was faster at emulating g3 power Mac than x86.

Plus the fact amigaos4 is still a single core platform should make it easier to emulate. Even the Pistorm dev said in the future it maybe possible to do a Ppc version, I think that would be dam cool. So there is a possible future there.

At the end of the day I just wish for better thing for the os4 platform as itís my fav out the ones I tried, I feel it would enjoy success on a low cost platform like the pi, but I know itís unlikely to happen, which is why I kind of have move on a bit from the os4 scene and more more support for project like Amikit & itís rabbit hole, thatís all.

Last edited by amigang on 16-Dec-2021 at 10:40 AM.
Last edited by amigang on 16-Dec-2021 at 09:06 AM.

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amigang 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 10:54:19
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1734
From: Cheshire, England

@matthey

Quote:
Surely THEA500 Mini will have a bigger impact if it sells in near mass production quantities as I expect but I believe it will be an underwhelming toy. Will THEA500 Mini wet people's appetite or disappoint them?


this is my big worry about the project, there tag line "Now other classic consoles are just toys!" well looking at the games announced and no details on the Workbench Os / serious stuff side it still looks as if it will be a toy, plus the games, although not bad, there not the best of the best.

Alien Breed 3D
Another World
ATR: All Terrain Racing
Battle Chess
Cadaver
Kick Off 2
Pinball Dreams
Simon The Sorcerer
Speedball 2: Brutal Deluxe
The Chaos Engine
Worms: The Directorís Cut
Zool: Ninja Of The ĒNthĒ Dimension
Project X
The Sentinel
F16 Fighter Pilot
California Games
Super Cars 2
Qwak
Dragons Breath
The Sentnel
Lost Patrol
Titus the Fox
Paradroid 90
Arcade Pool

I dont get it really, I know there license issues / copyrights, but the Amiga forever pack comes with 50 games and demos, why are they not on there, why no Amiga demos, why didn't retro games ltd announced a competition to make a game for the system, with the prize being your get the system free and knowledge that game will be played by 1,000s of people. would of been nice to work with the community like this.

Why no serious stuff, I get it its not a working keyboard, but Personal Paint might of been nice.

Last edited by amigang on 16-Dec-2021 at 10:55 AM.

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agami 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 11:36:58
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 733
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ppcamiga1
Quote:
There will be no switch to real 68k.

Quote:
We may use it but we not resign from ppc.

Quote:
So there will be no switch from ppc.

Sounds like somebody is afraid that the Amiga users just might move to new 68k cores.

Quote:
x86 and arm Amiga solutions are not better than twenty one years old uae with jit

As you say, x86 and ARM based solutions are just not quite ready, and users are already looking for where to go form PPC.

The only place where new stuff is happening is in the 68k space. Exciting stuff really. In many ways more exciting than whatís happening in the x86-64 space.

If I can help get some useful software on there, it could be a very interesting year.

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AmeegaGuy 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 13:51:20
#12 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2018
Posts: 95
From: Unknown

@amigang

Quote:
I think if the A1222 doesn't launch even in small numbers next year then I think the project really is in trouble


What - why only then? Clearly it's been in trouble for years now.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 15:20:49
#13 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 409
From: Unknown

@agami

There is nothing new on 68k. Nothing that was not earlier on ppc.

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bison 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 21:35:20
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1959
From: N-Space

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
should we shift away from 680x0 as well?

I think so.

x86_64 and ARM have a future; PPC and 68K do not. I slightly prefer ARM, since it is mostly used in price and power constrained SoCs, which forces things to be as simple as possible.

But any of these options are better than nothing. I guess I would prefer an FPGA 68K over a discontinued PCC, since more can be made, even if the actual FPGA used to implement the 68K changes as time goes on.

So my order of preference is:

1. ARM
2. x86_64
3. FPGA 68K
4. PPC

with a big gap between 2 and 3.

Last edited by bison on 16-Dec-2021 at 09:37 PM.

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nikosidis 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 16-Dec-2021 22:38:38
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 987
From: Norway, Oslo

That is correct!

2022 is a bigger number than anything from the 90's :P

Jokes away, the retro scene is growing.

Retro systems and stuff made for them are actually interesting.

Amiga as a NG platform is still not very interesting.

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agami 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 17-Dec-2021 1:57:22
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 733
From: Melbourne, Australia

@bison

Quote:
So my order of preference is:
1. ARM
2. x86_64
3. FPGA 68K
4. PPC

99% agree.

My order of preference is:
1. x86-64 (native, or as ppcamiga1 would put it "Amiga graphics and GUI on top of Linux/Unix)
2. ARM (native)
3. New 68k core (FPGA, for now)
4. RISC V (native)
5. Almost anything else (including emulation)
6. PPC (Power ISA)

The reality is, at the current rate of traction in the Amiga ecosystem, and even with some of the things I'm keen to help along, it'll take at least 2 years before we see an end-user marketed native x86-64/ARM solution.

In the meantime, we have the new 68k core. It's been here for several years now, building up momentum. We could have quite a bit of fun with that platform while the other things are developing.

More importantly, we could even grow the community with the new 68k core, more than pretty much any other avenue, and end up with a bigger pool of users for when the native x86-64/ARM solution is ready.

Last edited by agami on 17-Dec-2021 at 01:58 AM.

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tekmage 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 17-Dec-2021 7:02:37
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2005
Posts: 425
From: San Francisco

@amigang

One comment about the A1222 and when it will be available. I'm hearing that major hardware vendors are still projecting months of delays on enterprise equipment worth millions of dollars due to the global chip supply issues. Given that massive companies with dozens of years of supply chain experience are having huge issues we need to be patient with a small outfit like A-eon who has the best of intentions but limited resources.

I don't have any inside knowledge on this, just looking at the state of the world and seeing how brutal chip supply issues are in my professional life.

Cheers,
Bill "tekmage" Borsari


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Am!ga 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 17-Dec-2021 10:35:45
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Oct-2016
Posts: 19
From: Strawberry Fields

Sure! I will buy an new Amiga if we get a decent browser. Thought I am quite sure this wont happed during 2022. (And no I am no coder, one of the last endusers out there).

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BigD 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 17-Dec-2021 14:35:44
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6054
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@agami

There is nothing new on 68k. Nothing that was not earlier on ppc.


What about Metro Siege and Creeping Me Out: Hex Night? Two great looking games with no PPC version!

The way I see it the Amiga PPC / NG / AmigaOne / 'Tabor or bust platform' never developed a killer app beyond Candy Factory and WipeOut 2097 IMHO. I can use Blender and Hollywood on a Mac or PC and ditto for Wings! and Tower57. 68k is far more interesting and with continued development completely separate from the PPC software development which seems to be just A-EON throwing money at a handful of developers!

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ppcamiga1 
Re: 2022, Amiga Biggest Year since the 90's?
Posted on 17-Dec-2021 15:29:49
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 409
From: Unknown

@BigD

Just two not so impresive games.
I can play many better like this on win/ps/adroid.
Especially " Creeping Me Out: Hex Night".
2MB CHIP and 1 MB FAST?
This game is not worth money that people ask for AGA hardware.
Prices of retro hardware today are pure BS.
500 EURO for untested Amiga 1200?
Just for Amiga 1200? No way!!!

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