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BigD 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 27-Jun-2022 10:28:23
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6633
From: UK

@bhabbott

Quote:
Noticeably absent from that list of 'undesirables' were the gays, lesbians, and transgendered who were also persecuted and put to death in Nazi Germany. Because hey, there are limits to a person's empathy.

And today it is no different. You're not transgendered, so why should you care about how they are treated? (Trannies should be thankful that we tolerate their aberrant behavior at all). And we are not women either, so why should we worry about them being forced to bear children in pain and suffering as it says in the Bible? (Sluts should have kept their legs closed if they didn't want to get pregnant). And since men have the biological advantage of not having to worry about it, we won't do anything about protecting the rights of others. Until one day....


German pastor Martin Niemöller presumably didn't mention sexual preference because it's a lifestyle choice rather than an ideology like communism (though the LGBTQ+/Stonewall brigade becomes more of a ideological movement by the day). They need empathy in the sense that they are looking for love and acceptance in the wrong places when what they really have is a God shaped hole in their hearts that can only be filled by the love of Jesus!

Transexual/homosexual/non-binary behaviour isn't 'normal' and if it was then our species probably wouldn't procreate and continue beyond a couple of generations into the future!

Yes, the simplest way not to get pregnant is abstinence. There is no human right to have sex and if anything we should be far more supportive and show far more empathy to those who are 'called' to be single! I don't see any 'Singleness Month' celebrations or flag waving "proud to be single" slogans and no state provision of counselling for those struggling with loneliness! No one seems to care about that 'groups' mental health.

Obviously, women considering abortions should be offered counselling too (as should those considering hormone therapy or considering having their sexual organs chopped off) but the request should not be met with appeasement, simply blowing over and changing the law to allow these questionable demands with no questions asked. Killing babies is morally questionable, as is giving hormone therapy to underage girls and boys.

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robo-ant 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 27-Jun-2022 14:57:02
#182 ]
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Joined: 3-Feb-2008
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From: The anthill to the west of the silver maple

nvrmnd

Last edited by robo-ant on 27-Jun-2022 at 03:57 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 27-Jun-2022 18:08:17
#183 ]
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Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3149
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@bhabbott

Triggered, much?

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by 'here', but this thread began with the OP dumping a link on us with no comment other than the sarcastic title. At that point the 'debate' began...


The context of "here" was in the attitude of organisations like Stonewall in their approach to transgender inclusion into sensitive areas. Given the rest of the entire post, I would have thought it was obvious.

But seeing as it wasn't, let's elaborate on what I mean. For example, access to female only safe spaces. Stonewall have a summary here. Stonewall are, of course, in favour of ensuring transgender women have access to such spaces and services. You will note that they dismiss what they refer to the "hysteria" around access to female only safe spaces for things like domestic abuse by pointing out that many such services already deal with transgender women that have been the victim of domestic abuse. However, if you pair that back, what they are actually saying is "nobody should have an issue with transgender women using female only safe spaces / services because it's already happening.". This does precisely nothing to address the perfectly reasonable concern that biological women may have regarding biological men having access to their spaces.

This is not to say that transgender women should not have access to such support, it's just that they may need their own distinct safe spaces separate from biological females. Is a biological female that has been abused at the hands of a man a bigot for not wanting any biological men around her, regardless of how they identify? I don't think so.

Quote:
But then you argued that FINA 'addressed the debate' by banning transgender swimmers, when it was simply a demand with no discussion, compromise or shared understanding.


According to whom?

Quote:
Yet you described it as a 'victory for fairness', while pouring cold water on the idea of a completely open tier in which anyone can participate.


Regarding FINAs response. Yes it's fair, in my opinion. I didn't pour cold water on the suggestion of an entirely open swimming category, which I am entirely supportive of in principle. what I did say is that it's unlikely to work out. Simply because (1) the number of Transgender women swimmers are small. (2) Biological men still rammed full of testosterone could participate and dominate it unfairly. Which would be super ironic because it would be exactly the same situation as biological women face with transgender women competitors sporting male physiology.

Quote:
Then I offered an interested party's reasoned argument for weight-based categories (as used in some other sports) and your response was this?


I think you are assuming that my entire reply was to you, rather than the thread as a whole. Participating in elite competitive sports is not an innate human right to be decried if you are excluded for some physical reason. Elite sports are already full of categories that aim to pit like against like based on simple biology and physics, in the interests of creating a level playing field. Adults don't generally compete against kids. Biological Men don't usually compete against biological women. Single sex athletes in different weight grades, power outputs etc generally don't compete against each other even in the same sport. To do otherwise would be completely unfair.

The arguments in support of Lia Thomas, beyond those portraying anyone with a criticism as a transphobic bigot, are that she hasn't won everything hands down and smashed every record as if this somehow disproves an inherent physical advantage arising from her male physiology. It doesn't demonstrate any such thing. Yes, there will be better biological female swimmers than her as you move to the tail end of the bell curve of performance. That doesn't mean she doesn't have an advantage over most of the competition she's been pitted against.

Quote:
"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist ..."

Noticeably absent from that list of 'undesirables' were the gays, lesbians, and transgendered who were also persecuted and put to death in Nazi Germany. Because hey, there are limits to a person's empathy.


Ah the old Nazi trope. Where would reasoned internet debate be without the "Worser than a thousand Hitlars" insinuation?

Let's talk about gays and lesbians for a moment. Many young people are confused as to their identity and sexual orientation, some of which is innate, some of which probably arises from the confused messages around gender identity that are now the norm in society.

How many of those people today, particularly kids, will be mass funnelled through trans-affirmitive counselling and support rather than having their individual needs explored? How many will end up physically altered and have their reproductive capability surgically destroyed when in fact they may have resolved their confusion and grown up merely gay (or even straight) with their physiology intact? What's that? It doesn't happen? Tell it to Kiera Bell. Those who think gender is simply a construct with no basis in physiology would do well to investigate the case of David Reimer.

Still on the subject of gay people, what about lesbian women who are ostracised from the umbrella of their community for having an "issue" with transgender women as partners? You may say it's a myth, but it isn't. There's even a common perjorative used against them: "TERF" (trans exclusionary radical feminist). Simply because they are no more physically attracted to male physiology than a straight man is?

The division here is not between men, women, straight or gay. The division is between those who promote the ideology that gender is nothing more than a social construct and those who dispute it.

Last edited by Karlos on 27-Jun-2022 at 06:42 PM.
Last edited by Karlos on 27-Jun-2022 at 06:09 PM.

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bison 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 3:54:38
#184 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2104
From: N-Space

@bhabbott

Quote:
In a Nation whose constitution is supposed to guarantee separation of Church and State

There's nothing in the U.S. Constitution about the separation of church and state.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/full-text

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SHADES 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 4:00:49
#185 ]
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Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 781
From: Melbourne

@bison

First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/full-text

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kolla 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 6:25:36
#186 ]
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Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

You are clearly not a christian.

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bison 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 14:13:47
#187 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2104
From: N-Space

@SHADES

The first amendment prohibits the government from establishing an official church, and from meddling in the affairs of churches in general. This is why there is nothing comparable to the Church of England in the U.S.

Separation of church and state is a philosophical term coined by Thomas Jefferson which does not appear in the Constitution. But it has been used by SCOTUS to prohibit prayer in public schools, for example.

The two concepts are often conflated by people who wish them to be.

Last edited by bison on 28-Jun-2022 at 02:14 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 20:43:08
#188 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6633
From: UK

@kolla

Quote:
You are clearly not a christian.


Why because you think I should turn the other (bum) cheek?

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kolla 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 22:09:26
#189 ]
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Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

Absolutely not, rather the contrary, you’re way too soft. True bible followers have no issue with violence (or the murder of innocent babies for that matter). Around here they are celebrating saint Olav these days, a true christian, whos idea of solving the “make all people my people” problem was easiest solved by simply slaughter and murder those who weren’t, or didn’t want to. A true Christian. You’re just a … wannabe. I was born just a few … trebuchet throws (does that unit make sense for you?) away from where he lost his last battle.

And in Oslo, someone who pretty much share your righteous values, another “man of the book”, decided to throw a few rounds of bullets against those you describe as “unnatural”.

I rather stick with the old gods of ours, and funny enough, the wise words of Odin to all humans isn’t that much different to what the Jesus character said, or for that matter, Buddha and many other wise guys.

Whenever Jesus according to the texts speaks of “I” and “me”, replace it with “you” and “yourself” to get a more meaningful and very likely more accurate gist of his message. *You* are the truth, the way and the life - for you. The only way to your father’s (and mother’s!!) side (in Valhall, Nirvana, Nangijala, Heaven, whatever word you use for it) is through *yourself*, your thoughts, your deeds. Whoever has truly seen themselves have also trule seen their fathers and mothers. Whoever believes in themselves, rivers of living water will flow from within them. Etc etc.

Face it - Jesus was a long haired, long bearded “dude“, without any proper job, who ran around in the Middle East, with a certain entourage of mostly men (hmm!) and few women, speaking peace and love and showing nice party tricks. I’m quite sure he could play ukulele and had some views on raw milk vs. no milk, and why not herbs too. Maybe shrooms too, Saulus turned Paulus clearly had access to something… heh.

Anyways, those types exists today as well, and the word often used to describe such, is “hippie”. So when I say you’re not a true christian, take it as a complement, worshipping a “god damn hippie” probably isn’t a good idea in the first place. And besides, as I lay out above… we are all Brian, we are all individuals (except that guy), born free to chose our own truth, path and life. I hope to see you on some documentary from Antarctica some day, as you try to preach how homosexuality is unnatural to gender confused penguins.

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BigD 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 28-Jun-2022 22:56:39
#190 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6633
From: UK

@kolla

Matthew 7:6
Quote:
“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.


I guess I was warned! If you want to know God you read the Bible, you do not look at Westboro Baptist Church types, but then you know that really don't you?

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kolla 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 29-Jun-2022 5:54:59
#191 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

Of course I have read the bible, and I also read the koran, the tanak (largely variations over the same fairytales, with interesting differences) and many of the so called apocryphal texts for sake of completeness. Berlitz and Däniken also filled up a section of the shelve (only natural after reading Ezekiel). In capacity of archer and with interest in martial arts at the time, it was only natural for me to also read Herrigel, which led me to the tripitaka and the mahabharata. And of course greek, roman and our own mythology. In timely manner I also plowed my way through other texts of doubtful content like das kapital, mein kampf, satanic verses (meh), various so called necronomicons, and other texts deemed “illegal”.

Hey, maybe I was a nerdy kid, I read a lot, and I was curious about what it was in these books that made people say and do crazy sh*t. My conclusion was that it must take a special kind of mental… capabilities (look how political correct I am)… to gobble up all that text and take it seriously and literally. As time has gone by, I have realized that for “followers”, it is more important what their “interpreters” (priests, whatever) say, and that they can pull some random phrase out of it to support their arguments in stupid pissing contests, than to actually grasp the text as a whole, and the message within - most of them haven’t truly read the texts anyways.

It happened that my teachers were a little concerned with what I picked at the library, but as dad used to say “who cares what the kid is reading, the important thing is that he reads”.

Last edited by kolla on 29-Jun-2022 at 06:10 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 29-Jun-2022 6:05:44
#192 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6633
From: UK

@kolla

... and yet Jesus claimed to be the ONLY way to God. That should have commanded your attention over 'The Famous Five Go Fishing' IMHO!

“I am the truth, the way, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6)

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kolla 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 29-Jun-2022 6:36:45
#193 ]
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Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

And I say the same as Jesus.

I am the truth, the way, and the life, I don’t come to the father, but through me.

And it goes for all of us - the truth, the way and the life, for each and every one of us, is through ourselves, through our own egos (or “ids”, glory glory psychotherapy, glory glory sexuality…)

Translating archaic texts in old languges is a neutered dog.

I’m happy to inform you that I don’t belong to any faith, because (in Soviet…) my faith belongs to me.

And in the end, as we’re all reunited with the old dudes (who probably still claim to know better and kick our butts), all that remains are what we have left in this place, in terms of what we have said and done, and what we are remembered for. A bad reputation owns you eternally.

Last edited by kolla on 29-Jun-2022 at 06:45 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 29-Jun-2022 7:37:21
#194 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6633
From: UK

@kolla

Don't kid yourself that you'll be remembered past a generation or so (isn't that the theme of Disney's Coco?). You can achieve anything as long as you don't mind who takes the credit. Serving Jesus as the Lord of your life is a perfect outworking of that because He is God and hence weaves the past, present and future together using His people as tools to outwork His will. Yes, Christians fail and sin at times but if they're focused on Him they can't go far wrong. That's not true if you serve yourself, money or the other 'false' idols that seem to have caught your attention during you 'extensive' reading!

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Karlos 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 29-Jun-2022 13:19:10
#195 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3149
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kolla

Quote:
... all that remains are what we have left in this place, in terms of what we have said and done, and what we are remembered for. A bad reputation owns you eternally.


So very true. Like who'd want to be remembered as a far right supremacist, an X, Y or Z-phobic bigot, etc? It's easier than ever these days, especially for the social media generation, where everything they've ever said online can be dragged up at any time with a few keystrokes and nicely framed our of context.

Last edited by Karlos on 29-Jun-2022 at 01:47 PM.

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kolla 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 30-Jun-2022 6:13:33
#196 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@BigD

Quote:

Don't kid yourself that you'll be remembered past a generation or so (isn't that the theme of Disney's Coco?).


See how easily you misread what I wrote? Maybe there are other things you may misread as well?

It was not my point that I wish to be remembered, rather the contrary - the memory of people with bad reputations can last forever, while few can remember the deeds of a good guy.

Cane is famous for killing his brother Abel, but what is Abel known for, other than being killed by his brother?

Of the twelve disiples of Jesus, which one is most famous? Judas perhaps?

Quote:

You can achieve anything as long as you don't mind who takes the credit. Serving Jesus as the Lord of your life is a perfect outworking of that because He is God and hence weaves the past, present and future together using His people as tools to outwork His will. Yes, Christians fail and sin at times but if they're focused on Him they can't go far wrong. That's not true if you serve yourself, money or the other 'false' idols that seem to have caught your attention during you 'extensive' reading!


My realisation, that is true for me, is that "the lord", as interpreted by those who claim to have some sort of monopoly on how to read the bible, is a false idol. The person I hear about from "the preachers" is someone else than the person I read about in the evangelic texts myself. The latter being a much more credible character. It's very much like life of Brian, the messiah gets overinterpreted, misunderstood and attributed stories that "grew" more and more fantastic as they were repeated.

If Jesus returned today - as promised - who would believe him? The pope? What could he possibly do to convince anyone? Maybe he would just be some dude with long hair and long beard traveling around without any regular job, preaching peace and love. Like so many.

Last edited by kolla on 30-Jun-2022 at 06:14 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 30-Jun-2022 16:03:18
#197 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6633
From: UK

@kolla

Quote:
My realisation, that is true for me, is that "the lord", as interpreted by those who claim to have some sort of monopoly on how to read the bible, is a false idol.


No one should be tip toeing around you and respectfully allowing you to hold to 'your truth' without challenge in some sort of post-modern 'This is my Truth Show Me Yours' (to quote The Manic Street Preachers).

What we should all be interested in is THE truth. And on that basis:

1) Jesus claimed to be God.
2) Jesus challenged the pharisees and sadducees and didn't just do a 'Life of Brian'.
3) He conducted miracles, fed the 3,000 and 5,000 and even brought people back from the dead.
4) He claimed to be 'The Lamb'; the sacrifice for all our sin and atonement and the ONLY way back to the God we have rebelled against.
5) He emphasised that a criminal who repented in His name would be in heaven with Him on the day of His crucifixion. He did not play nice or give simply sage advice to 'good' people already doing what was right in their own eyes! He called them to believe, repent and to pick up their cross and follow him.

In order for people to repent they first need to acknowledge that they've fallen short of God's standard and cannot work their way back to him (not easy for so called 'good' people to do) not even if they achieve close to a perfect life. Only Jesus will ever lead a perfect life which is why only He could make atonement for our sins.

Quote:
Maybe he would just be some dude with long hair and long beard traveling around without any regular job, preaching peace and love.


No, Jesus most definitely wasn't John Lennon. Maybe your History of the Beatles book got trapped inside your copy of the Bible or something? God IS love but that does not equate to being a hippy, getting stoned and fornicating with Mary Magdalene like some historical Yoko Ono or Beatles groupie!!

The 66 books might be worth a re-read but maybe start with Mark's Gospel and pray that God would reveal HIS truth this time.

Last edited by BigD on 30-Jun-2022 at 04:13 PM.

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Amiga4000 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 2-Jul-2022 3:17:35
#198 ]
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Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 324
From: The Ford Galaxy

SEGA's officially in! Apparently they're all in!

More Gaming and Entertainment Companies Respond After Supreme Court Overturns Roe v. Wade




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bhabbott 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 2-Jul-2022 4:40:50
#199 ]
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Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 231
From: Aotearoa

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:

What we should all be interested in is THE truth. And on that basis:

1) Jesus claimed to be God.
2) Jesus challenged the pharisees and sadducees and didn't just do a 'Life of Brian'.
3) He conducted miracles, fed the 3,000 and 5,000 and even brought people back from the dead.
4) He claimed to be 'The Lamb'; the sacrifice for all our sin and atonement and the ONLY way back to the God we have rebelled against.
5) He emphasised that a criminal who repented in His name would be in heaven with Him on the day of His crucifixion. He did not play nice or give simply sage advice to 'good' people already doing what was right in their own eyes! He called them to believe, repent and to pick up their cross and follow him.

...according to the Christian bible, a collection of stories written by men. Men who were not above making up stories to further their agendas. In fact they reveled in it. They co-opted the Jewish bible, twisting and torturing passages to fit their unbelievable narrative, with the goal of subverting its laws so they could do as they pleased. The Jews were not impressed.

Why Jews Cannot Accept the New Testament

The Christian bible is full of deliberate 'misunderstandings' and 'mistranslations' used to bolster its outrageous claims. If Jesus existed at all (there is no evidence outside the Christian bible itself) then he was just another 'false prophet', a typical cult leader who continually spouted BS to brainwash his followers. In short, Christianity is a pack of lies just like all those other cult religions.

Quote:
The 66 books might be worth a re-read but maybe start with Mark's Gospel and pray that God would reveal HIS truth this time.
Slim chance of that.


"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." - Isaac Asimov

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kolla 
Re: Don't "rainbow-wash" me bro!
Posted on 2-Jul-2022 6:45:51
#200 ]
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Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2316
From: Trondheim, Norway

@bhabbott

As someone who nicknamed his first Amiga daneel… that’s a nice quote, indeed :)


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