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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Sam460le picture?
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Hypex 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 11:57:19
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10884
From: Greensborough, Australia

@agami

I would say it would look similar Amiga OS4 with basic design elements like depth gadgets, gadget placement and scroll arrows together like OSX did. But they would have employed a whole team of professional artists to give it a unique and professional look.

However, if they wanted to remain unique and not look like the rest, they would have done well to keep a fresh look but avoid copying Windows and OSX by making it look plain and boring. Gnome/Linux copies Windows. And macOS has copied Windows by going plain. OSX interface is more colourful.

At the end of the day, it's going to look similar to any other desktop interface. With differences under the hood and interface behaviour However, if they wanted to really be out there, they would have attempted a different way of interfacing like the 3d desktop idea. Not the old ideas with flat windows in 3d space. But ideas I have like the whole window being a 3d object visually, then when you go into another folder from an icon, you can see it going into the folder in 3d. I haven't seen this and common desktops are still in basic 2d. Even the latest advance in screen interfaces, touch screens, are still interfaced in a 2d design.

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PixelHi 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 14:05:40
#22 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 37
From: Unknown

@BigD

But that is my point argument of money vs performance. I have ReA1200 + Blizzard PPC + Bvision. Cost of this computer is waaaaay higher than Sam460le. However, I did not get it for performance reason.

The same with Sam460le I do not need performance of x5000. I want to have... small low profile computer that will do most of things in reasonable speed.

I simply don't care about A500 mini, if someone likes it. Great!

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BigD 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 14:59:22
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6775
From: UK

@PixelHi

If you want to run Classic Amiga software plus some more modern apps like a video player and catch some of the later 90s stuff Amiga Users missed out on it's ideal.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Rob 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 16:36:32
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6234
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Most people can do all that with a computer they already own. I guess you like the A500 mini because it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, well maybe it's the same for people who buy a Sam460 or X5000.

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Karlos 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 16:46:44
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3377
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

Faced with economic turmoil and increasing cost of living, I wouldn't recommend anyone buys an expensive niche machine at the moment. But if you do have the money to burn, don't let anyone else tell you what to do with it*.

* T&C apply. Defer to your spouse, of course, if you are married.

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

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PixelHi 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 17:33:57
#26 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 37
From: Unknown

@Karlos


Exactly, why someone is telling others how to spend their money?

Sure, everyone can express thier opinion. I could not afford new BlizardaPPC, so I didn't not get it. I got computer i needed to do my job. Today I can fork out $1k for Sam460Le and my wife will stay with me after that purchase 😉.

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BigD 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 5-Oct-2022 19:45:42
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6775
From: UK

@PixelHi

Quote:
Today I can fork out $1k for Sam460Le and my wife will stay with me after that purchase 😉.


Sounds like you have a 'get out of jail free' card there!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 6-Oct-2022 0:07:18
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1212
From: Melbourne, Australia

@BigD

Quote:
BigD wrote:
@agami

Since most Amigans in its heyday just loaded games from disk mostly bypassing the OS do you really think the Workbench/AmigaOS was ever more than a curio even for actual Amiga owners?

You raise a good point.

During my uni days with a basic 1MB, dual floppy A500, the experience was very modal. Just like with games, I'd boot into this or that productivity software from DF0, save my work to DF1.

It was only from 1993, after I got an A1200 in late 1992, that I started to care about the OS. The value of multitasking came through as I played MOD files in the background working on something else, while also being connected to a BBS.

For games, it was still mostly modal as only a few games (natively) supported loading from HDD. A number which increased over the years, but without WHDLoad still represented a minority of games.

There were clearly two very distinct demographics and use cases for the Amiga:
1. The computer gamer (on a budget)
2. The digital creative

It's only more clear (in hindsight), that Commodore should've had a game console mixing things up with NES and SMS, instead of the CDTV.

Last edited by agami on 06-Oct-2022 at 12:07 AM.

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 7-Oct-2022 2:12:36
#29 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1212
From: Melbourne, Australia

@AGA

The trend that not enough, if any, foresaw in 1991/92, and might not have believed you if you traveled back in time to tell them, is that computer gaming was about to have an elite class: People who will spend mucho dinero on computer hardware to have the best gaming experience, with games that push the envelope of what is digitally possible.

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cdimauro 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 7-Oct-2022 4:37:16
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:

For games, it was still mostly modal as only a few games (natively) supported loading from HDD. A number which increased over the years, but without WHDLoad still represented a minority of games.

There are around 2 thousand games in WHDLoad/JST "format": a huge number...

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 7-Oct-2022 8:13:48
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1212
From: Melbourne, Australia

@cdimauro

Quote:
There are around 2 thousand games in WHDLoad/JST "format": a huge number...

Yes. I said without WHDLoad the games that had HDD install/load support was in minority.

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kolla 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 7-Oct-2022 9:03:10
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2382
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Quote:

With OSX they did in fact dump Mac OS. Now they may call it Mac OS today, or macOS, but it's obviously developed from OSX. Mac OS is worlds apart from Mac OSX and macOS since it's a different OS under the hood.


Yes, old MacOS was dumped. OSX was "MacOS 10" (roman number X). It is not based on old MacOS at all, thogh a few "upper layer" components were brought over to simplify the transition. Before it became OSX, it was (code) named Rhapsody, during the porting from Sparc and x86 to PowerPC. Before that, it was named NeXTSTEP and also ran on 68k.

Apple had others options as well - Apple/UX and NewtonOS.

With Big Sur, using "OSX" didn't make sence anymore, since this was no longer "OS 10", but "OS 11", and with two decades of gap, going back to "macOS" made sence. Today, it is macOS 12.

Quote:

I suppose Windows can't escape this either. It's always been called Windows. But Windows 3.1 and Windows '95 were worlds apart on a technical level. Windows 10 has more in common with '95 and close versions, but they are still worlds apart now and visually it adopted a plain look in later versions.


Windows 10 is not based on Windows 95, it is based on WindowsNT 4.
Visually, Windows 3.x and Windows NT 3.x look alike, while Windows 95/98 and Windows NT 4 look alike. Win95 and Windows 10 have in common that they both can (in principle, to various degree!) run win32/x86 binaries.

Commodore's plan was to follow suit and use "VMS with buttons" as the operating system for their future systems, but on PA-RISC (and maybe PowerPC).

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amigang 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 7-Oct-2022 11:43:21
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1921
From: Cheshire, England

I remember the doubt and the naysayer when I bought my AmigaONE X1000 in 2012, when I looked at the price then (£1,800) I could of got a top end PC / Mac that would of been many times faster at that time for that price.

But I believe enough and wanted to experience the best next generation Amiga you could buy, I dont and will never regret buying it, yes Im a little disappointed how the market played out and not seeing the platform move forward (apart from in graphics) if anything in terms of app/software I feel it slip back, when i joined the OS4 market their was big project like Timberwolf, Blender update, Open Office kid port etc.

Plus one big factor that most over look, if I had bought a top end PC / Mac and tried to sell it today 10 years later its worth is a lot less, example..

( https://web.archive.org/web/20120721190421/http://www.apple.com/macpro/ )
( https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224855897348 )
Mac Pro 6 core New in 2012: £2,449.99 - Today Price on ebay for :£360

Where as my underpowered, lack of apps and difficult future AmigaONE X1000 system Im pretty sure I could sell for around £1000. (judging by the fact a sam460 is selling close to that price).

And why does it have that value, it not based on specs, speed its because it runs AmigaOS4, to some that has value only the individuals can decide how much that adds.

Last edited by amigang on 08-Oct-2022 at 04:09 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 08-Oct-2022 at 04:08 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 07-Oct-2022 at 11:43 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 8-Oct-2022 6:41:56
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10884
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
Yes, old MacOS was dumped. OSX was "MacOS 10" (roman number X). It is not based on old MacOS at all, thogh a few "upper layer" components were brought over to simplify the transition. Before it became OSX, it was (code) named Rhapsody, during the porting from Sparc and x86 to PowerPC. Before that, it was named NeXTSTEP and also ran on 68k.


I recall some things like Carbon and Cocoa back in the day. Especially Carbon being useful for integrating old apps.

Quote:
Apple had others options as well - Apple/UX and NewtonOS.


NewtonOS sounds like it would be too small. There was also LisaOS. For some reason I thought the Lisa had colour but read it was monochrome, so it's as backwards as a Mac compared to colour from the previous decade.

Quote:
With Big Sur, using "OSX" didn't make sence anymore, since this was no longer "OS 10", but "OS 11", and with two decades of gap, going back to "macOS" made sence. Today, it is macOS 12.


In that case the logical step up would OS XI and OS XII!

Quote:
Windows 10 is not based on Windows 95, it is based on WindowsNT 4. Visually, Windows 3.x and Windows NT 3.x look alike, while Windows 95/98 and Windows NT 4 look alike. Win95 and Windows 10 have in common that they both can (in principle, to various degree!) run win32/x86 binaries.


And also Windows 10 maintains the start bar made famous in Windows '95. But changed a lot. Both still having the bottom bar that was adopted by AmigaOS 3.5+, Mac and Linux desktops.

Quote:
Commodore's plan was to follow suit and use "VMS with buttons" as the operating system for their future systems, but on PA-RISC (and maybe PowerPC).


I haven't heard that one. The only one I heard was Windows NT as the official OS on a new Amiga hardware, but when researching it was only about Windows NT being able to run on new Amiga hardware, not as the official OS so the NT claim is false. In any case, except for gamers, including an OS that wasn't actually an AmigaOS in any form would have been as popular as Windows NT on PowerPC.

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kolla 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 8-Oct-2022 11:40:42
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2382
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hypex

Bottom bar came from RiscOS.
The dock on macOS came from NeXTSTEP and has nothing to do with the windows bar, and also predates it by many years.

Btw, it was quite obvious when win95 was launched that widgets and gadgets etc were HEAVILY inspired by NeXTSTEP. Win3.x and Motif were lookalikes in that regard.

Last edited by kolla on 08-Oct-2022 at 11:43 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 10-Oct-2022 11:00:15
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10884
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

That's interesting to know. I think you tend to need to work in the industry or have friends to find this info out. At the time I wouldn't have known what RiscOS or NextSTEP was. Just like most people only know Windows and would have only heard of this quirky Mac thing back then. But I'm not most people either. Most people I know have only heard about the Amiga because I told them!

So that's interesting that Windows 95 was a bit of a rip off. After the DOS thing being adopted. And the story about Jobs not wanting Gates to do his own GUI.

I recall OS/2 around the time. But it didn't take off. I didn't have a PC so it all kind of amused me.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 10-Oct-2022 22:48:05
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1200
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote:
@agami

Quote:
Could you in all honestly, for a fact know and claim, that if the Amiga computing platform never got shafted with the bankruptcy of Commodore, and continued to evolve over the last three and a half decades through a succession of owners, that Amiga OS today it would look more like AmigaOS 4, or would it likely look more like Gnome 43?

I'd expect it to look like a more polished and higher performance version of what AmigaOS 4 is today, with a fully modern web browser, email app, etc.


MorphOS!

Quote:
It's a shame that ACube can't get the price down.


I was honestly shocked by the ridiculous price! Haven’t they learnt anything the last couple of decades?



Quote:
The Sam460 could be a great entry level machine if it were entry level priced.


Not really, its performance is ridiculously low and its features cripled, and the Sam has always had stability issues. At 50 Euros, as some distraction on a rainy day? Maybe. But at a thousand Euros!?!

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agami 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 10-Oct-2022 23:35:26
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1212
From: Melbourne, Australia

@TRIPOS

Quote:
TRIPOS wrote:
@agami

MorphOS!

MorphOS looks and feels a little more advanced than AmigaOS 4, but it's still more on par with Mac OS X from early 2000s.

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PixelHi 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 11-Oct-2022 1:41:05
#39 ]
Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2022
Posts: 37
From: Unknown

I have to say guys, but you mastered the art of off topic :D.

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Hypex 
Re: Sam460le picture?
Posted on 11-Oct-2022 3:52:25
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10884
From: Greensborough, Australia

@PixelHi

You know, though I didn't help in this regard, I noticed that all along no one has posted any picture yet. I'm still waiting. Can any of us actually answer a simple question without twisting it around to some irrelevant opinion?

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