Hello everyone.

At the recent Amiga 37 in Germany, during a QNA session, Trevor Dickinson was nominated for comment of the year.

The comment is:
"What I don't want to see, and it might sound silly, I don't want to see OS4 running on a PC."

Video of the comment excerpt:
https://youtu.be/XHrm8XA59yw?t=19191

As you can imagine, being gold, it has been causing quite a stir. Well, I hope Trevor wins. Go Trevor!

HERE'S AN HAIKU FOR THE OCCASION:


Colossal spastic,
divider of our people,
Amiga's own Trump

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@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: Hello everyone. At the recent Amiga 37 in Germany, during a QNA session, Trevor Dickinson was nominated for comment of the year. The comment is: "What I don't want to see, and it might sound silly, I don't want to see OS4 running on a PC." Video of the comment excerpt: https://youtu.be/XHrm8XA59yw?t=19191 As you can imagine, being gold, it has been causing quite a stir. Well, I hope Trevor wins. Go Trevor!

Using PC VGA PCI cards that initialize VGA X86 bios (part of UBoot's initialization function) is almost an X86 PC.

Like IBM's Micro Channel Architecture, IBM's PC in PowerPC was IBM's last attempt to re-control the PC market away from Intel/AMD.

The "PC" was IBM's label for micro-computer class devices.

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@Hypex

Quote:

The comment is: "What I don't want to see, and it might sound silly, I don't want to see OS4 running on a PC."

It doesn't just sound silly, but it is silly. It certainly dates him.

These kinds of comments are good for rousing the troops, but are ultimately pointless. Outside of sentimentality, he provides no good reason why it shouldn't run on a PC. Like AROS, (eventually MorphOS?), Haiku, or as Linux or BSD distros do.

Solve one problem at a time. Get out of the hardware game. Build development and user communities, and then (if it makes product/business sense) work on non-PC hardware.

Last edited by agami on 21-Oct-2022 at 10:06 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

MEGA_RJ_MICAL wrote: HERE'S AN HAIKU FOR THE OCCASION: Colossal spastic, divider of our people, Amiga's own Trump

Love it.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

Thanks friend agami,

I appreciate how you keep an open mind to PC,
while boasting "all the way with 68k" in your signature.

68K AS AMIGA'S VIRTUAL MACHINE, SAYS I.

(Cue Hammer, Matthey and Cdimauro to derail the thread with opcodes and cycles titillation)







/MEGA!

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@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

I appreciate how you keep an open mind to PC, while boasting "all the way with 68k" in your signature.

I'm a big fan of @Karlos's vision for a 68k JIT-kernel based Amiga environment running on a PC.

Transitioning from 68k to PowerPC didn't pan out.
Going back to square one and transitioning from 68k to some other ISA, makes more sense than transitioning from PowerPC to some other ISA.
Especially since any PowerPC code for AmigaOS 4 can be back-ported to the high performance 68k JIT-kernel Amiga.

Separate to the Amiga context, I would like to see a hobby board based on a new 68k ASIC to operate in the same markets as Raspberry Pi.

That is why my signature states "All the way, with 68k". That and the fact that all my current Amiga's are 68k. Including Apollo SA.

And it is I who should be thanking you, for all the levity you bring.

Last edited by agami on 21-Oct-2022 at 10:31 AM.
Last edited by agami on 21-Oct-2022 at 10:30 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

it is a kind of "nerd" comment... besides what does he mean with PC? INTEL/AMD based? Macs f.e. migrate now to ARM. A Mac is also a "PC". And even if he thinks of INTEL/AMD, there is no reason. If you want very powerful hardware you need a PC. And AmigaOS is (for most people) in competition with other platforms so you have a outdated OS competing on outdated hardware. If it would run on same hardware it would be at least there a fair competition

@Hypex

I couldn‘t disagree more. OS4 should run on standard hardware. Custom Hardware is a dead end.
I am glad MorphOS will go pc, albeit it still takes a While. The sentence is cheap and wrong, kind of populism. It will keep OS4 in its ultra tiny niche.

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What is PC exactly? Isn't PC supposed to mean "Personal Computer"? Aren't X1000s and X5000s PCs too?

Unless he means Intel CPUs. Or ARM CPUs? Macs have been switching to ARM CPUs since a couple of years, Windows will get there. I thought he wanted to port Amiga OS to ARM. But if ARM is also PC, he has a problem :D :D :D

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Quote:

What I don't want to see, and it might sound silly, I don't want to see OS4 running on a PC.

OK. Easy enough. I don't think PCs want to run OS4.

Last edited by Nonefornow on 21-Oct-2022 at 05:41 PM.

@Hypex

Well if it makes A-EON's custom hardware pointless when Trevor's invested thousands of his own money into this new hardware and software amalgam then I get where he's coming from. Also, if Hyperion's AmigaOS ends up on x86 (unlikely) then it likely to go the same way as BeOS IMHO.

Last edited by BigD on 21-Oct-2022 at 07:17 PM.

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@Thread

As if porting AmigaOS 4.x or MorphOS on any "standard" Intel/AMD platform would help having more users.

It did not work with Haiku and it did not work with AROS, those two being excellent for what they can do. Why the heck would it bring more people on board?

And as for Haiku or AROS, you would still need supported hardware for these systems (don't expect any graphic card, network card and so on to be supported).

Our OSes are now niche systems. Having them on standard PC would only serve people willing to try them... "just to see". And then reboot into Windows (it's already the case with people willing to "discover" Linux : they download lots of distributions, test them on live USB key and then reboot to Windows).

The best x86 solution to date is Amithlon (I've been using it a lot when it was released), there were even x86 optimised applications (like FxPaint for example). This was the way to follow.

Now, I don't see the point loosing time porting MorphOS or AmigaOS 4.x to x86 (or ARM by the way), there won't be more users (when I say users, I mean real users, people using it on a daily basis).

Apple took another way : they broke compatibility with old softwares years ago (from 68k to PPC and then from PPC to x86 and after that from 32bit apps to 64bits apps and eventually will break x86 compatibiloty on ARM devices). It was not the choice of Amiganoid systems.

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@K-L

Quote:

Apple took another way : they broke compatibility with old softwares years ago (from 68k to PPC and then from PPC to x86 and after that from 32bit apps to 64bits apps and eventually will break x86 compatibiloty on ARM devices). It was not the choice of Amiganoid systems.

Yeah, the break with 32-bit apps was particularly jarring. iDVD was a killer app and I don't see what other great software they've produced in the meantime. Premier even took over from Final Cut Pro as the video editor of choice. Why people persevere with Apple these day with the death of OpenGL, the exodus of game developers and now not even BootCamp to fall back on, I'll never know!

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@Thread

... so their batteries last longer and their thin slither of aluminium doesn't get as hot; who cares when they no longer create the best software?

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@K-L

Sticking to obscure overpriced special sauce HW that is lagging 15-20 years behind in performance (and won't see any improvement ever again) is a sure way to make user numbers dwindle.

Now I don't how one could grow the userbase or if it is even possible but whatever idea someone else might come up with is doomed to fail if doesn't include using completive and easy to get HW.

Last edited by Kronos on 21-Oct-2022 at 08:19 PM.

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@thread

A point of clarification on this:

Quote:

I'm a big fan of @Karlos's vision for a 68k JIT-kernel based Amiga environment running on a PC.

Yep, I absolutely think that a modern "umilator" style solution would be amazing, however, it's only an example implementation of what I think would make a good direction. The fuller picture for me is to define a subset of 680x0 instructions, ABI and standard set of libraries and devices as a base platform specification for cross-amiga compatible applications. The aim being that you should be able to write code once and have it execute on real 68K hardware, UAE, OS4, MorphOS and, of course, the aforementioned JIT emulation monster. 68K already runs on all of these anyway, but with standardisation on what is expected from client code, it's an escape route from PPC obsolescence.

We'll never all agree on what is the "best" amiga, but I think we can all benefit from recognising the utility of 68K as a standard here: Essentially a write-once run (almost) anywhere solution for Amiga application software.

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@Karlos

Amiga Forever does x86 pretty well for most and Amithlon would have done it even better. There is no 'future development' Amiga path on x86 it would simply be a retro machine being emulated. However, it already is retro at this point.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

For everyone else there's THEA500 Mini and those that just want to play Worms and Alien Breed 3D just get Worms Armageddon off GoG or Steam and play Project Osiris both under Windows on x86 - no judgement here! Does anyone else find it annoying that the Worms: The Director's Cut on THEA500 Mini wasn't modded to include the Worms 2 PC Soundtrack (that was the original idea during the original release in 1997)!

Last edited by BigD on 21-Oct-2022 at 08:37 PM.

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@Hypex

Yah, its interesting turn around, Trever used to back AmiKit with the rabbit hole feature, how ever now ACube Systems is working on a PowerPC laptop, and from what understand from talks they planed to have AmigaOS4.x support for the hardware.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Oct-2022 at 08:43 PM.

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