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kolla 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 24-Sep-2023 8:16:25
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2963
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

You don’t answer the question, and instead spin around in your usual circles, so I presume your answer is “no”. You really should spend more time DOING and less time writing repetitive essays here.

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matthey 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 24-Sep-2023 22:38:56
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2085
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

You don’t answer the question, and instead spin around in your usual circles, so I presume your answer is “no”. You really should spend more time DOING and less time writing repetitive essays here.


You ask some strange and personal questions which is why you don't always get the answers you want. Yes, I've used 68k Amiga emulation with WinUAE on x86-64 hardware. It's the best Amiga emulation available on a high performance CISC architecture that the 68k was once very competitive with. Yes, the 68k Amiga emulation is higher performance than the 30-40 year old hardware. Yes, there are some nice WinUAE features. Assimilation is as easy as paying several hundred dollars to get x86-64 hardware yet the Raspberry Pi has sold around 50 million units. Some people want cheaper hardware and better value than emulation can provide. There are no healthy purely emulated or virtual computer platforms available that I am aware because of lack of value. Emulation is EOL support for dead hardware platforms.

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kolla 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Sep-2023 19:32:38
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2963
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Let me quote myself…
Quote:
Have you experimented with “amiga emulation” vs “68040 emulation”? UAE vs Aranym for example?


I am not here asking if you have used WinUAE. I specifically ask if you have compared Amiga emulation (UAE) with *just* 68040 emulation - as in no emulation of Amiga chipset - for example the Atari emulator Aranym (which uses same 68k emulation code as UAE) or for that matter Qemu. So… have you? I have, for a long time I used Aranym for Linux/68k as it was quite a lot faster than Linux/68k on UAE, even with both set up to just use serial console.

Last edited by kolla on 25-Sep-2023 at 07:33 PM.

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number6 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 21-Apr-2024 16:13:34
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11593
From: In the village

@thread

I guess I missed this when it occurred. Common knowledge?

The A500 mini is available through

Walmart

#6

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OneTimer1 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 21-Apr-2024 16:42:03
#145 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@thread

The next mini is uncovered and it's an

Atari 400

Some 8 bit compatible Atari 400 clone but compatible with Atari 800XL , 800XE and consoles like the 5200

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matthey 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 21-Apr-2024 20:48:59
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2085
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

I guess I missed this when it occurred. Common knowledge?

The A500 mini is available through

Walmart


I thought the THEA500 Mini has been on the Walmart website for awhile.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Amiga-500-The-A500-Mini-25-Retro-Games-HDMI-Console/1025291918 Quote:

Sold by LN Store (S/N Recorded)
Fulfilled by Walmart


I believe this means Walmart is not the seller themselves so perhaps like a 3rd party seller on Amazon?

THEA500 Mini is the Amiga Everywhere that isn't really an Amiga Anywhere. It is just a toy that spreads Amiga nostalgia but doesn't help the Amiga user installed base. Overall, it is doing more for the Amiga than AmigaNOne hardware though.

OneTimer1 Quote:

The next mini is uncovered and it's an

Atari 400

Some 8 bit compatible Atari 400 clone but compatible with Atari 800XL , 800XE and consoles like the 5200


Officially THE400 Mini with No Atari branding.

https://retrogames.biz/products/the400-mini/

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OneTimer1 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 21-Apr-2024 20:55:05
#147 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:



Officially THE400 Mini with No Atari branding.


It has an Atari branding:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari#/media/Datei:Atari_logo_alt.svg

But without the name ...

Stupid brand owners changed the logo to this:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari#/media/Datei:Atari_Logo2.svg

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 21-Apr-2024 at 10:45 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 22-Apr-2024 4:16:38
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5398
From: Australia

@matthey

Quote:

Windows on ARM uses an x86(-64) emulator without a native ARM version of the program resulting in emulation overhead either way.

Like on Apple Rosetta 2, Windows on ARM uses an x86(-64) emulator without AVX.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 24-Apr-2024 23:52:12
#149 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote:
@matthey

Quote:

Windows on ARM uses an x86(-64) emulator without a native ARM version of the program resulting in emulation overhead either way.

Like on Apple Rosetta 2, Windows on ARM uses an x86(-64) emulator without AVX.


No, more like on WindowsNT that was available for ARM, MIPS, PowerPC, ...

But they all where betrayed, because deep in the mountain of doom, the dark lord refused to recompile his most precious office software and only let them use a crappy port of his most vicious C-compiler.

One after the other fell and in the final battle the free remaining systems tried to stand up against the eveil force.

Well that's history.

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BigD 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 9:12:41
#150 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7332
From: UK

@matthey

Quote:
THEA500 Mini is the Amiga Everywhere that isn't really an Amiga Anywhere. It is just a toy that spreads Amiga nostalgia but doesn't help the Amiga user installed base. Overall, it is doing more for the Amiga than AmigaNOne hardware though.


It serves our community plenty good enough and helps is get our ex-Amigan friends interested again in the scene with a unpretentious accessible product.

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OlafS25 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 9:34:03
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6369
From: Unknown

@matthey

The A500 Mini is primarly targetting former amiga owners who are no longer active. They want something they can easily use for playing old games and nostalgia. It certainly not brings the platform forward but is covering a certain need. At best it brings back some former users who realize that the platform lives. And it is currently the only amiga hardware sold at a larger scale. I do not see it negative.

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matthey 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 17:40:30
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2085
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

It serves our community plenty good enough and helps us get our ex-Amigan friends interested again in the scene with a unpretentious accessible product.


How many THEA500 Mini users rejoin the Amiga community instead of storing THEA500 Mini after they have played a few retro games? Where does renewed Amiga interest lead? What do you recommend to THEA500 Mini users who want a more general purpose and affordable Amiga like the original?

OlafS25 Quote:

The A500 Mini is primarly targetting former amiga owners who are no longer active. They want something they can easily use for playing old games and nostalgia. It certainly not brings the platform forward but is covering a certain need. At best it brings back some former users who realize that the platform lives. And it is currently the only amiga hardware sold at a larger scale. I do not see it negative.


The Amiga platform is at best dying and at worst already dead. THEA500 Mini is just a going out party for the zombie Amiga. THEA500 Mini negatives are a matter of perspective. The glass half full perspective is that THEA500 Mini sold in large scale showing strong support for the 68k Amiga platform that could give it momentum. The glass half empty perspective is that THEA500 Mini does nothing to move the Amiga platform forward despite large scale sales, there is a disappointing Amiga hardware upgrade path beyond THEA500 Mini and the Amiga is running out of missed opportunities to increase the Amiga user base and make the Amiga relevant again before it disappears. Neither perspective is wrong.

The Amiga platform is dying. In 10 years, there won't be enough Amiga users left to do anything and the ones left will be too old to do much. In 20 years, practically nobody will have heard of the Amiga. At the same time, the RPi platform will likely have grown several times in size and most people already know what a RPi is. Many children of the Amiga generation were exposed to the Amiga and have favorable views of the Amiga but the best we have for them is THEA500 Mini which leads nowhere and does nothing for the Amiga platform. The future is Amiga extinction at the current trajectory and THEA500 Mini does nothing to change this. I'm not trying to pick on THEA500 Mini either. PPC AmigaNOne hardware is infinitely worse and Trevor forever has his head buried in the sand if he thinks otherwise. It is because THEA500 Mini is so successful with the nostalgia and sales that I see it as a missed opportunity because it is also far from a perfect Amiga product and the one we need to make the Amiga relevant again.

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OlafS25 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 19:08:00
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6369
From: Unknown

@matthey

I do not know your age but I have hopes to live a lot longer. I am beginning 50s. And there are even younger people in the community. Of course it is retro and young people are rare but I do not see it as pessimistic as you. A couple of years amiga was in my view much deader than now, not because of Amiga Mini but because of new products. I see also innovations like the merge between Aros and Linux who offer new potential. And the whole 68k section develops positive. I do not know what will be in 20 years but I at least still have some hope. When you think Amiga is dead why are you here and wasting your time with it?

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OneTimer1 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 21:02:12
#154 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:

The A500 Mini is primarly targetting former amiga owners who are no longer active. They want something they can easily use for playing old games and nostalgia. It certainly not brings the platform forward but is covering a certain need. At best it brings back some former users who realize that the platform lives. And it is currently the only amiga hardware sold at a larger scale. I do not see it negative.


Those XX00 Minis are making me sad, 'cause they are sold without keyboard and they are often restricted to the games that are built in unleast you hack them.

But that's really all what's left from the original Amiga.

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pixie 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 21:16:01
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3170
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote:
@OlafS25


Those XX00 Minis are making me sad, 'cause they are sold without keyboard and they are often restricted to the games that are built in unleast you hack them.

But that's really all what's left from the original Amiga.

One thing puzzled me though, I though they had the approval of cloanto (as long as no Workbench is used), but at the same time, they do not use the name. Does anyone know why?

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matthey 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 21:36:13
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2085
From: Kansas

OlafS25 Quote:

I do not know your age but I have hopes to live a lot longer. I am beginning 50s. And there are even younger people in the community. Of course it is retro and young people are rare but I do not see it as pessimistic as you. A couple of years amiga was in my view much deader than now, not because of Amiga Mini but because of new products. I see also innovations like the merge between Aros and Linux who offer new potential. And the whole 68k section develops positive. I do not know what will be in 20 years but I at least still have some hope. When you think Amiga is dead why are you here and wasting your time with it?


I am a similar age but I expect I'm younger than average for U.S. (ex-)Amiga users who I believe to be older than in other countries. My uncle who showed me his Amiga 2000, the first Amiga I saw, was already on his 2nd Amiga. He was diagnosed with early stage dementia several years ago. Another friend with many Amigas I helped over the years has cancer and is on hospice. He gave me his large Amiga collection. I also knew James Conwell from Texas who developed the Total Chaos game for the Amiga and who passed several years ago. Speaking of developers for the Amiga, look at the Amiga developers here. Many were relatively young but we have lost Jay Miner, Dave Morse, Dave Needle and Rob Peck. As a group, they have probably survived better than average but most are in their 60s now and some may be in their 70s.

I believe European Amiga users are younger, especially eastern European Amiga users emerging from economic oppression behind the Iron Curtain. Germany looks like it is in much better shape, literally, than the U.S., judging by shows like Amiga 38. Poland Amiga fans still sometimes have hair on top of their head. Still, there have been Amiga community and developer losses. Edgar Vigdal, author of Deluxe Galaga, comes to mind who passed all the way back in 2015 from cancer but I know there are others.

Personally, I don't expect AROS, with or without Linux, is going anywhere. I expect MorphOS, even on x86-64, will remain niche. PPC AmigaNOne should have been buried 10-15 years ago and is an embarrassment to the Amiga. Retro Games Limited showed that there is a retro 68k Amiga market and it would be larger with more competitive and affordable hardware, possibly enough for mass production. The Raspberry Pi Foundation showed that it is possible for a newcomer to build a successful hardware market with competitive and affordable mass produced hardware. Why divide when we can unite again with the 68k Amiga? Isn't it obvious what needs to be done to move the Amiga forward and make it relevant again? Perhaps I'm still here waiting for the IP squatters and road blocks to be removed?

pixie Quote:

One thing puzzled me though, I though they had the approval of cloanto (as long as no Workbench is used), but at the same time, they do not use the name. Does anyone know why?


It may be "AmigaOS" that is the problem instead of "Workbench". Read the 2009 "Amiga Inc v. Hyperion VOF" Settlement Agreement. It is very restrictive to the Amiga IP owner. Hyperion makes demands while the owner substantially receives nothing from this contract. It is obvious to me this contract was likely coerced on a business that was known to be in financial duress (illegal) and it is even questionable whether it is quid pro quo as Amiga Inc. gained nothing of value in the contract. Did the judge read this before signing it?

Last edited by matthey on 25-Apr-2024 at 09:50 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 21:43:10
#157 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 996
From: Unknown

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote:
... they do not use the name. Does anyone know why?


Not really I have some theories:

1.
Licensing the name Amiga from Cloanto would have cost them extra money.

2.
Cloanto can't grand them a license, because they don't have the right to do it.
{
Wasn't there something in a contract that they can't use the license for a 'PC' like device
without the approval from Amiga Incs partner Hyperion?
}

---

But to be honest, they manged to do it without the brand name.
TheA500 goes well with the TheC64 or TheA400

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number6 
Re: Retro Games Limited - THEA500 Mini - Future?
Posted on 25-Apr-2024 23:28:16
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11593
From: In the village

@OneTimer1

It was "considered".

Indeed RetroGrames Ltd. did not require the name and licensing cost because they knew everyone from reviewers to utubers to distributors would call it "Amiga" anyway.

In addition at the time Cloanto was having an issue with uspto -not- assigning the Amiga mark to the new Amiga Corporation as requested. This created an additional delay at an inopportune time. Since RetroGames Ltd. had already both marks secured at that point, they chose TheA500 mark likely for both reasons.

Even this wasn't smooth sailing as Amigakit had filed to trademark A500, which they eventually withdrew. In short given all this plus the pandemic it's almost a miracle they got this product out.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Apr-2024 at 11:34 PM.

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