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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
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Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )
Poll : AmigaOS4 KVM/Emulation
I would get AmigaOS4 Forever Edition/check out emulation
I already run OS4 in Emulation
Intresting, see where this goes...
AmigaOS4 Hardware only!
Not intrested in Emulation
Not intrested in OS4
Pancakes!
 
PosterThread
amigang 
AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 9-Oct-2023 9:09:46
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1998
From: Cheshire, England

So at Amiga38, A-EON/Trevor talk about A1222 update, nearly 50 have been produce so they're coming very soon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhaw7NAjPKU&t=1740s

But more interesting is a new Virtual Driver of Amiga Picasso96 is coming for AmigaOS4 that allows much faster Amiga emulation and higher screen mode than previously made.

Also being to look into is the possibility of emulating other drivers, like network and audio etc this might make the AmigaOS4 much easier to port to new hardware and massively improve emulation support/speed.

Amiga-news.de report
"Enhancer 2.3, Virtio GPU driver: In his talk (YouTube video), Trevor Dickinson described the history of A-EON's hardware developments, announced a new Enhancer version 2.3 for probably before Christmas, and introduced the Virtio GPU driver for Picasso96: a virtual GPU for use with emulators like QEMU and virtual machines (KVMs), developed for A-EON by Hans der Ruiter. Features:

Looks like a regular PCI device
Passes graphics commands through the host operating systems graphics drivers
Provides 32-bit display support
High resolution
Fast - no need to emulate hardware registers
Virtio GPU has 3D and video decoding hardware acceleration - WIP

Virtio GPU driver current status:

Fully working framebuffer driver, with 8, 16, and 32-bit modes
Hardware accelerated mouse pointer
DDC/EDID working, so automatically gets available screen-modes
High resolution
Fast - no need to emulate hardware registers
Virtio GPU has 3D and video decoding hardware acceleration - WIP
Version 0.5 has just been released
Very usable as-is "



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DiscreetFX 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 9-Oct-2023 18:53:27
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2422
From: Chicago, IL

@amigang

I'd buy that for a $1!

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ppcamiga1 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 9-Oct-2023 19:34:58
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 607
From: Unknown

For pc I have Windows.
I'm not interested in emulator.
Almost every software that I use on Amiga has Windows versions.
Newer, more stable and run at lest five time faster than old Amiga version in emulator.
What not run on Windows is usually to outdated and not worth to use.
And most important Windows has memory protection.
It is solid like rock.
Last time I see blue screen more than twenty years ago.
Windows is nice, stable, reliable os.
I don't need Amiga os on my pc.

I like amiga because it is not pc.
because it is something differ.
So no real hardware no fun.

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agami 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 0:38:30
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1506
From: Melbourne, Australia

@thread

Personally have no interest in AmigaOS 4. At this point they could make it open source and I'm not sure I'd care.

As far as the feature no one asked for, ever. One has to ask the question: What plans is A-EON hatching that they require Virtio GPU driver in Picasso96?

Will the next A-EON X-product run System54 within a QEMU hypervisor on non-PPC hardware?

Time will tell.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 20:51:51
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12667
From: Norway

@agami

Its going to happen with AEON or without AEON, its better to be part of it, then at least then you can sell the driver, everyone knows it selling few PowerPC to few people are is too expensive for many, and we donít have laptop, its inconvenient to drag a big box Amiga to shows. Letís see how well it works, perhaps there will be benefit to real hardware or not.

I also agree that writing software for emulators make little sense, but then again lots of 680x0 software has been developed on PCís for years using cross compilers.

I think what sells AmigaOS or not will depend on unique software you can run on it.
If donít have any unique software, then itís not likely anyone care to use the OS.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Oct-2023 at 08:52 PM.

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kolla 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 21:26:52
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2687
From: Trondheim, Norway

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:
@thread

Personally have no interest in AmigaOS 4.


Really, didnít you suggest porting OS4 to 68k a few weeks back?

Quote:

At this point they could make it open source and I'm not sure I'd care.

At this point it is much too late.

Why is it in Amiga land, open source is seen as some sort of last resort, as the last thing one should do when software is dead? Itís backwards and retarded, open sourcing must happen while development is still active to be of much use, as only then can transfer of knowledge happen.

Quote:

As far as the feature no one asked for, ever. One has to ask the question: What plans is A-EON hatching that they require Virtio GPU driver in Picasso96?


I bet this is the result of Nilsí poll earlier about what hardware users of OS4 would want to see. Personally, Qemu/VirtIO is the _only_ way I would even consider OS4 in the future, so thatís what I answered in the poll as well. And it helps a ton on PPC hardware too.

Last edited by kolla on 12-Oct-2023 at 12:48 PM.

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kolla 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 21:33:21
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2687
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

https://github.com/cnvogelg/amitools/blob/master/docs/vamos.md

Quote:
even able to build complex Amiga projects including AmigaOS itself!


Guess how OS 3.2 is compiledÖ 68k SAS/C on Vamos/Musashi.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 22:08:21
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12667
From: Norway

@kolla

I know about VAMOS, never used it.

I have been developing natively, and SSD-DISK, 1Ghz CPU its ok to develop natively, for smaller projects, for larger projects helps with faster CPU, Iít good idea to have at least 1Gb ram, as temp file are put in T:, but you move to a disk. Instead of RAM:T, so work 512mb.
itís better on X1000 where I have M.2 disk and 1.8Ghz, naturally.

SSD is absolutely a necessity. Lots of small files, lots of seeking is not good.

Even larger project, is possible work natively, you only really recompiling, parts you change,
you can also organize project into .a libs, so you have isolated parts can be compiled without thinking too much about incompatible header files.

so its compilation few files and there is the linking.

if you are doing test driven development with larger team, you lots more problems. Because check anyone has broken anything, after merges, working alone, kind know what everything is. so there is not really necessary to have a monster machine.

I know SUN used to compiled code using distributed networks, SunRPC, looked pretty nasty when looked at code, as distributed shell commands over networks. The code looked like ideal backdoor from hackers point of view.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 10-Oct-2023 at 10:15 PM.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 23:12:39
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2422
From: Chicago, IL

Cool news that will let more people use the OS.

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kolla 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 10-Oct-2023 23:50:33
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2687
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I know about VAMOS, never used it.


Well now you also know that AmigaOS 3.2 was built with it.

Quote:

I know SUN used to compiled code using distributed networks, SunRPC, looked pretty nasty when looked at code, as distributed shell commands over networks. The code looked like ideal backdoor from hackers point of view.


https://www.distcc.org

I've used distcc for package building for Linux/m68k, using real 68k systems, emulated 68k systems and cross-building toolchains.

Last edited by kolla on 10-Oct-2023 at 11:50 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 11-Oct-2023 11:49:39
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2744
From: Amiga land

with this kvm driver working will be no sense to buy a real hardware just because the bootle neck is the gpu for the emulators of Os4 hw.

If 5$ i will buy it... if more not needed i will continue use my amigaone micro.

Last edited by tlosm on 11-Oct-2023 at 11:50 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 11-Oct-2023 at 11:50 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 11-Oct-2023 15:20:28
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11053
From: Greensborough, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
Why is it in Amiga land, open source os seen as some sort of last resort, as the last thing one should do when software is dead? It?s backwards and retarded, open sourcing must happen while development is still active to of much use, as only then can transfer of knowledge happen.


As a comparison, If MS open sourced Windows Mobile, would it encourage active development and increase the user base of Windows Mobile?

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matthey 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 11-Oct-2023 16:32:39
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1852
From: Kansas

tlosm Quote:

with this kvm driver working will be no sense to buy a real hardware just because the bottle neck is the gpu for the emulators of Os4 hw.


Exactly what I was thinking. Stick a boing ball sticker on the outside of your PC and forget about real Amiga hardware. The best high performance AmigaOS4 system will no longer be a X5000 but a PC with emulation. The best low end AmigaOS4 system will be a cheap PC SBC or garage sale PC and not the A1222.

Intel Inside Amiga > PPC Amiga
AmigaNOne < AmigaNOwhere

AmigaOS4 Hardware only! 24% 13/55
Not interested in Emulation 11% 6/55
---
Want AmigaOS4 hardware 35% 19/55
(Not interested in OS4 15% 8/55)
---
Interested in AmigaOS4 that want real hardware 40% 19/47

I expect a higher percentage of Amiga users would be interested in real hardware but not existing PPC hardware at current prices which some may assume to be the case. Sadly, Amiga software emulation offers better value and performance than real hardware. Emulation is for obsolete hardware after all and that has come to PPC hardware also. It may still be possible to have mass produced low end real 68k Amiga hardware like RPi hardware by reuniting with a much larger Amiga user base but otherwise real Amiga hardware is dead.

Short term winners: Hyperion, Hans de Ruiter, AmigaOS4 emulation users
Short term losers: Amiga Corporation (Ben gets life line), A-Eon (Why buy A1222?), AmigaOS4 hardware owners

Long term winners: AmigaOS4 emulation users (buy software once and set for life)
Long term losers: Trevor (no more AmigaNOne tax deductions from subsidized hardware), AmigaOS4 software development (no hardware, no software, no market), AmigaOS4 hardware owners

Maybe a software bundle can be offered including AmigaOS4 with gfx drivers, KVM software and emulation software ready to install. It would be the last software ever needed for AmigaOS4 users and it could be called AmigaForeverPPC. If it is legal to sell an AmigaKit A600GS Amiga compatible computer then it should be legal to add "PPC" onto "AmigaForever" for an emulator, right?

Last edited by matthey on 11-Oct-2023 at 05:14 PM.

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Maijestro 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 11-Oct-2023 17:31:02
#14 ]
Member
Joined: 31-Mar-2023
Posts: 23
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:

Exactly what I was thinking. Stick a boing ball sticker on the outside of your PC and forget about real Amiga hardware. The best high performance AmigaOS4 system will no longer be a X5000 but a PC with emulation. The best low end AmigaOS4 system will be a cheap PC SBC or garage sale PC and not the A1222.


They have already stuck the BoingBall on their PC hardware, because that's all it is, a board on which a PPC processor has been stuck, that whole thing we then call AmigaNG hardware and sell it at prices that a normal working citizen can't afford.

We will be happy if 200-300 pieces of it are sold. So is this the solution now for the hardware and software problem with AmigaOs4.1? I think not!

But everyone can form his own opinion about it.....

If you are interested in this and want to see for yourself how the whole thing works under Qemu, I recommend you simply click on my channel where you will find many examples.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUTJOGYJxS1Ggx4foQTklXw

Last edited by Maijestro on 11-Oct-2023 at 05:48 PM.

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amigang 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 11-Oct-2023 20:06:18
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1998
From: Cheshire, England

@Maijestro

cool videos, I've not tried Os4 under emulation, but when this come out will definitely give it a try.

Is this an ideal solution, no.

I would love to see better, affordable native AmigaOS4 hardware, but I think A1222 has demonstrated the difficulties that can happen, the huge costs and delays.

If this can offer a way for more users to try out AmigaOS4 out and make the system maybe even easier to port in the future, Im all for it!

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agami 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 12-Oct-2023 3:45:11
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1506
From: Melbourne, Australia

@kolla

Quote:
kolla wrote:
@agami

[quote]Really, didnít you suggest porting OS4 to 68k a few weeks back?

As I explained in that thread, I was stating what would be the best course of action for Hyperion Entertainment CVBA.

The run of PPC hardware, low quantity as it was, is coming to an end with the long overdue and drastically under-powered for 2023: A1222 (Tabor) system board. Also at this point I'm not even sure A-EON needs to pay Hyperion anything for these additional couple hundred licenses.
I predict that they would sell more AmigaOS 4 for the high performance emulated (HPE) 68k CPU in UAE and/or Emu68, than AmigaOS 3.2.2 for 68k (hardware, clock accurate emulated 68k and HPE68k).
Why keep working on back-porting AmigaOS 4 features into Amiga OS 3.x, when they could just port the whole thing for HPE68k, as most AmigaOS 4 Amigans have high performance PC, plus there's great enthusiasm for upgrading classic hardware with PiStorm boards running Emu68.And there's also the upcoming maturation of the PiStorm standalone system.

But personally, I couldn't care any less than I already do, whether Hyperion port AmigaOS 4 to HPE68k, which should yield no less performance than that of a SAM460 or A1222.

Quote:
Why is it in Amiga land, open source os seen as some sort of last resort, as the last thing one should do when software is dead? Itís backwards and retarded, open sourcing must happen while development is still active to of much use, as only then can transfer of knowledge happen.

Of course opening the source of an operating system has better results when done at the height of enthusiasm and engagement, but that doesn't mean that there aren't scenarios where opening the source as a "last resort" can be mildly fruitful.

In Amigaland, we'd prefer a new well funded player to enter the scene and take over from Hyperion, and inject new life into this slowly dying platform. But as that is less likely to happen as each year of "two more weeks" passes, the other way to free the mostly beloved OS from Hyperion's tyranny, is to go open source.

Such a move could mean no more frivolous litigation. No more fear of a Ben Hermans summons when developing aspects of the OS or its software.
While that is a far cry from revitilising the development community for AmigaOS 4, it's something many in Amigaland would surely welcome.

It certainly couldn't make things any worse.


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geen_naam 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 12-Oct-2023 7:38:00
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 133
From: The Netherlands

@matthey

Quote:
Short term winners: Hyperion, Hans de Ruiter, AmigaOS4 emulation users
Short term losers: Amiga Corporation (Ben gets life line), A-Eon (Why buy A1222?), AmigaOS4 hardware owners

Long term winners: AmigaOS4 emulation users (buy software once and set for life)
Long term losers: Trevor (no more AmigaNOne tax deductions from subsidized hardware), AmigaOS4 software development (no hardware, no software, no market), AmigaOS4 hardware owners


Exactly. Although the long term losers will be everybody. The emulators guys just less investment in the platform.

Personally I am not looking forward to an emulator situation which kills the prospect of new hardware. And I will not buy newer hardware in any case when an emulator is faster. I will simply move on.

But losing just one developer isn't an issue. We get Maijestro in return who has promised the survival of the platform with a tsunami new devs and new software. It's not like he's just preaching his own best interests here, right?


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geen_naam 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 12-Oct-2023 9:19:56
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 133
From: The Netherlands

@agami

This is more or less what I was trying to explain on amigans as well. The AmigaOS4 platform effort was initiated to provide a faster AmigaOS experience then was possible with 68k at that time.

If an emulator platform bests the real OS4 hardware then what is the point anymore. Just backport the stuff to 68k where possible. There's only benefit for the users here. Os3 users get access to the Os4 features and more advanced 3D APIs. OS4 users get access to new developments on 68k. Those who want speed, 3D etc can play with QEMU. Those who want the realt thing keep on playing with classics and vampires. A reunited family with more users and more common developers.

Nobody will miss those os4 exclusive apps that will not be ported. Which you can count on one hand anyways.

The idea that OS4 will suddenly prospher on emulation while killing any hope for new hardware at the same time is just plain delusional.

Using QEMU as in between solution for yet another API change is just wishfull thinking.

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amigang 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 12-Oct-2023 9:46:56
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1998
From: Cheshire, England

@geen_naam

I disagree this will kill new hardware, likely the two biggest successful hardware products we had in the Amiga world lately have been emulation based.

The A500 Mini
Pistorm

Now the bigger question is are they really adding anything new to the platform, have they added new users and interest. I would say the answer to that is mixed, some have just come back to the Amiga scene because of the A500 mini, I met someone just like this at the Amiga show in the Uk, this leads to an extra sale of a ticket to the show, this might of lead to them maybe exposing them to what else is out there. The A500 mini has also resulted in one of the best pre-setup Amiga gaming system, AGS and lead to many more games being made for WHDload.

Pistorm has allowed a fairly easy, lowcost way to upgrade classic Amigas, this has resulted in more people buying AmigaOS3.2 for their upgraded system and maybe check out other Amiga software.

So you never know where this could lead. A600GS is another new emulated based hardware coming out that might offer some new interesting directions for the Amiga platform.

Last edited by amigang on 12-Oct-2023 at 10:16 AM.
Last edited by amigang on 12-Oct-2023 at 09:47 AM.

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geen_naam 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 12-Oct-2023 10:23:36
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 133
From: The Netherlands

@amigang

I've meant new powerpc hardware.

The problem with such products that you mention is that they either make an appeal to childhood memories (a500mini) or connect to real classic hardware (pistorm).

AmigaOS4 on itself doesn't have such heritage. Other then exactly the products that you are talking about.

Basically similar to winuae.
This platform is mainly used for old times sake. And OS4 doesn't have those old times.

Amigaos4 has been trying to take off for 20 years now. The user base has not grown beyond 500-1000 active users. I doubt that it really was ever about the price of hardware. An V4 Apollo system for $650 is also selling well.

But wat is a platform without hardware. Just a piece of software. something you start on your host when you feel like it. And you'll just multitask into Chrome if you want to do some browsing. No soul. No purpose. A dead end.

Last edited by geen_naam on 12-Oct-2023 at 10:24 AM.
Last edited by geen_naam on 12-Oct-2023 at 10:23 AM.

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