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      /  The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
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PosterThread
pixie 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 8-Nov-2023 15:50:43
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Seiya

Quote:
a little more modification you can add in the title: "The Best Amiga 68k Hardware and Software 2023".

lol, more like the never ending change of titles! xD

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Seiya 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 8-Nov-2023 19:54:24
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1473
From: Italia

@pixie

in the hurry to open the topic i forgot essential things

Last edited by Seiya on 08-Nov-2023 at 07:54 PM.

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pixie 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 8-Nov-2023 20:25:47
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Seiya

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cdimauro 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 9-Nov-2023 5:42:55
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3549
From: Germany

@Seiya

Quote:

Seiya wrote:
@_Steve_

a little more modification you can add in the title: "The Best Amiga 68k Hardware and Software 2023".

better to stay on 680x0 world

It's redundant: by definition an Amiga has a processor from Motorola 68000 family (and the custom chipset that we know).
Quote:

Seiya wrote:
@pixie

in the hurry to open the topic i forgot essential things

And you forgot even the most essential: see above.

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Seiya 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 31-Dec-2023 16:49:26
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1473
From: Italia

and the winners are:

Pistorm32 Lite, the best Hardware
AmigaOS 3.2.x, the best Operating System
Proxima Reshoot III, the best Game

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OneTimer1 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 16:08:31
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 951
From: Unknown

Quote:

Seiya wrote:

... classic 68k hardware so no FPGA and no Raspberry, ...


That cuts out "PiStorm32" because its only usable with a Raspberry Pi and Emu68 because it is a software running on ARM.


---


There was ZZ9000 a new GFX card for the Amiga.

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Seiya 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 16:25:21
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1473
From: Italia

@OneTimer1

you are right, but as the pistorm is connected to Amiga motherboard, could be considered amiga hardware (more or less like amithlon that emulated 68040 and the rest was handled by linux micro kernel interfaced with AmigaOS).

Last edited by Seiya on 01-Jan-2024 at 04:25 PM.

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pixie 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 17:35:58
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@OneTimer1

It's clear cut, it's hardware that connect to an Amiga it's Amiga hardware, your opinion has little to do to the votes expressed, it might as well be a PC bridgeboard, if most people voted for it why shouldn't it win?

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OneTimer1 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 17:50:18
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 951
From: Unknown

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote:
... if most people voted for it why shouldn't it win?



I didn't made the rules for this contest and one of the rules was :

no Raspberry

Maybe this rules should be committed in a clearer way something like

'no Raspberries' with the exception of those on a add on board.
Or 'no FPGAs' instead of those I approve.

Quote:

pixie wrote:

it might as well be a PC bridgeboard,



Some sources claim the bridgeboard in C= sidecar was mainly the motherboard of an PC10. I myself have a PC cards in my A2k, that could be in any ISA Slot, running it in a A2k it doesn't turn it into an Amiga hardware.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 01-Jan-2024 at 06:00 PM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 01-Jan-2024 at 05:56 PM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 01-Jan-2024 at 05:55 PM.

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pixie 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 19:18:34
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@OneTimer1

But Raspberry doesn't connect directly to an Amiga, Pistorm does, no one is choosing raspberry as an Amiga hardware. You brought a special case, but if you brought say zz9000 would you say it isn't Amiga hardware? Or if you used the CPU slot to act like Pistorm? Anyhow, it was changed so many times it's quite hard to follow what are the software/hardware who could be nominated

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OneTimer1 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 21:13:36
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 951
From: Unknown

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote:

But Raspberry doesn't connect directly to an Amiga, Pistorm does ...


And it has a FPGA (Trion T8Q144), one of the rules was 'no FPGA' ...

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 01-Jan-2024 at 09:15 PM.

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pixie 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 1-Jan-2024 21:27:59
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3104
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@OneTimer1

It doesn't reimplements Amiga chipsets, afaik it is used as glue logic to connect to raspberry pi.

It's hardware, it attaches onto an Amiga, it expands Amiga functionality, it makes Amiga games faster, no wonder people had chosen it time and time again as the hardware Amiga product of the year. Seriously it was a no brainer.

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kolla 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 2-Jan-2024 14:36:55
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2821
From: Trondheim, Norway

@OneTimer1

Quote:

There was ZZ9000 a new GFX card for the Amiga.


Also FPGA and ARM, just plugged in a zorro slot.

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OneTimer1 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 2-Jan-2024 15:58:53
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 951
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
@OneTimer1

Quote:

There was ZZ9000 a new GFX card for the Amiga.


Also FPGA and ARM, just plugged in a zorro slot.


But at least no Raspberry

FPGAs where also used on accelerator cards like the Cyberstorm, they are all disqualified for voting.

"The A500 mini" has an ARM SoC, can run AmigaOS but has definitely no Raspberry PI in it, maybe it is disqualified by the usage of a FPGA.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 02-Jan-2024 at 04:02 PM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 02-Jan-2024 at 03:59 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 2-Jan-2024 16:34:23
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 4359
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

I think the fact that people are stipulating "No Raspberry" only serves to underscore the obvious point that the PiStorm is basically untouchable as a hardware expansion option for your Amiga.


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Hammer 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 4-Jan-2024 4:23:58
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5125
From: Australia

@Seiya

Quote:

Seiya wrote:
what is, in your opinion, the best hardware and the best software for Amiga in this 2023?
Hardware it will be better classic 68k hardware so no FPGA and no Raspberry, but most people using these hardware so are ok.
Software: only Applications, Operating System and Games that run natively or in emulation.


No FPGA? That's a stupid rule.

The original PiStorm has CPLD as glue logic. LOL.

The use case for PiStorm-RPi-Emu68 is a hardware add-on for the classic Amiga that presents itself as a very fast supervisor 68040, partially working MMU (e.g. Chip RAM is uncacheable, custom embedded 68040.library as a ROM add-on module) and follows Commodore-Amiga's AutoConfig (TM) hardware add-on rules (e.g. Broadcom graphics card, local Fast RAM, mass storage controller). Amiga 68K drivers have been created for RPi's built-in hardware features.

Most Amiga hardware addon cards have software as firmware and follow Commodore Amiga's AutoConfig (TM) ecosystem. Emu68 follows Commodore Amiga's AutoConfig.

The main branch PiStorm-RPi-Emu68 add-on is designed for the Amiga and other 68K platforms such as Atari STE or classic Mac requires their respective PIStorm editions. Emu68 wouldn't work for a classic Mac or Atari STE.

Modern PC add-on card follows the ACPI ecosystem. As of 2001, ACPI has assumed the role of PnP BIOS and APM, and PCI has inherent plug-and-play functionality through the configuration space. The nature of modern PCs is built on the ACPI ecosystem, hence the "Designed for Windows" logo.

Without ACPI for Windows, AMD's 4700S is just a close relative of PS5 hardware and it's unable to boot PC's Windows. AMD added UEFI ACPI firmware that enables PS5 APU to configure itself and boot PC's Windows X64 OS. Windows X64's ACPI HAL expects a "Designed For Windows" ACPI ecosystem.

Modern X64 CPUs have embedded firmware from either AMD or Intel and it wouldn't work without it. Pure hardware and a major hardware bug = full product recall e.g. classic Pentium FPU bug. X64 CPU's firmware updates include post-sale fixes and "enhancements".

The "pure hardware" argument is in lala land.

Most Amiga userland software doesn't need to know Commodore Amiga's AutoConfig.

Last edited by Hammer on 05-Jan-2024 at 05:33 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jan-2024 at 05:13 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jan-2024 at 04:27 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: The Best hardware and the best software 2023
Posted on 4-Jan-2024 5:09:47
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5125
From: Australia

@Seiya

Quote:

Seiya wrote:
@pixie

Pistorm32 and emu 68k are the samething. Pistorm is not Amiga hardware and emu68 is the driver to run Pistorm inside an Amiga.
It is like to use WinUAE to run Amiga OS inside PC with Windows.

Emu68 not run without Pistorm32 and Pistorm32 not works without emu68. If emu68 working on every Amiga hardware (real or emulated) yes it is software.



FYI, Intel64 CPUs have embedded firmware which is software. The use case and sales category for Intel64 CPU is hardware.

Firmware is a special software category.

The complex micro coding engines have a firmware component.

On modern PC's normal operations, UEFI (firmware) needs to be aware of specific CPU models e.g. Intel RaptorLake on unsupported Alder Lake LGA1700 motherboard is not wise. The same for AMD's AM4 and AM5. CPU-less BIOS flash capability becomes mandatory with later AM4 motherboards.

The original PiStorm add-on hardware is designed for the Commodore Amiga platform since it's missing a few 68000 features which are used on other 68K platforms such as Atari ST and Macs.

PiStorm32 Lite is designed for A1200's expansion slot and it's foreign for other 68K platforms.

PiStorm-Emu68 is not a generic drop-in 68K replacement like Motorola's 68K CPUs.

Emu68 has a custom-embedded 68040.library and it's aware of the uncached Chip RAM address range. Emu68's 68040.library is an add-on resident module for Amiga Kickstart ROM.

The firmware enables the dead paperweight hardware to function.


Last edited by Hammer on 04-Jan-2024 at 05:15 AM.

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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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klx300r 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 4-Jan-2024 5:55:44
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3832
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote:
@kolla

[quote]
kolla wrote:
@OneTimer1

[quote]
...
FPGAs where also used on accelerator cards like the Cyberstorm, they are all disqualified for voting.
...


disrespecting my CS-MKIII in my Amiga 4000

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SHADES 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 7-Jan-2024 20:08:47
#79 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 865
From: Melbourne

@Seiya

I agree with what @agami said.

Without any competition: pistorm / 32 and emu68

There has never been a better cost effective upgrade path for AMIGA, ever.
This is kind of a first in it's history. I need to get one.
If only the memory barrier with 32 bit can be broken for the OS, modern browsers are becoming a possibility.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: The Best Amiga Hardware and Software 2023
Posted on 7-Jan-2024 20:42:26
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12764
From: Norway

@SHADES

well, you can break 32bit barrier if you have a mmu, you need memory objects you lock and unlock, that way address space is freed when you don't need it.

https://blogs.vmware.com/vsphere/2020/03/how-is-virtual-memory-translated-to-physical-memory.html

AmigaOS4.1 does supports it. the simplest way to use it, is to use the RAM disk.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jan-2024 at 08:47 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jan-2024 at 08:44 PM.

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