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/  Forum Index
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      /  AmigaOne X5000
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PosterThread
matthey 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 8-Mar-2024 19:43:17
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2097
From: Kansas

Rob Quote:

I suspect his questions have never been in good faith. They certainly haven't been for a long time.


Why assumptions? I was under the impression BigD was seriously considering purchasing a PPC AmigaOS system (A1222 at one time?). There are a lot of Amiga like options available just not enough good ones. We like the AmigaOS but PPC Amiga hardware has horrible value and is getting worse.

X5000
CPU performance: C- (no SMP)
FPU performance: C- (no SMP)
SIMD performance: F (doesn't exist)
GPU performance: B (standardization helps)
cost: F- (nowhere near competitive)
productivity software: D+ (sub $100 hardware like VisionFive 2 supports Firefox and LibreOffice)
game software: D (only because some 68k Amiga games run otherwise F for PPC only games)
68k Amiga software compatibility: D

A1222
CPU performance: D (no SMP)
FPU performance: F (SPE is primitive and practically useless for PPC AmigaOS 4)
SIMD performance: F (SPE is primitive and practically useless for PPC AmigaOS 4)
GPU performance: F (lack of standard FPU makes 3D GPU practically useless)
cost: F- (nowhere near competitive)
productivity software: D (sub $100 hardware like VisionFive 2 supports Firefox and LibreOffice)
game software: F (no FPU for PPC games)
68k Amiga software compatibility: D-

Sorry that we need constant reminders of what we were supposed to be attracted to here when sub $100 USD hardware like the RPi 3-5 and VisionFive 2 RISC-V SBC outperform the AmigaNOne hardware that is 20+ times more expensive. Isn't it obvious that with this kind of value that the install base is too small to support development? What do you think are the chances of getting SMP, Firefox and LibreOffice after a decade of failures? Realistically, what are the chances of PPC AmigaNOne hardware with horrible value, a tiny user base, noncompetitive desktop features and PPC being out of development and production for about a decade now recovering to even sustainable status? We are anti-PPC AmigaNOne because we are realistic and would like to see development in a different direction that has a chance, affordable retro hardware instead of expensive outdated noncompetitive desktop wannabe hardware?

Last edited by matthey on 09-Mar-2024 at 04:00 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 09-Mar-2024 at 01:59 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 09-Mar-2024 at 01:59 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 09-Mar-2024 at 01:58 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Mar-2024 at 10:25 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Mar-2024 at 07:46 PM.

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 8-Mar-2024 20:06:12
#62 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@Rob

I am in good faith.

I am Pointless of Spaceballs


Spaceballs

As I tried to tell you:
We are reboosting Norwegian
AMiGA Association.

Sunday, 17th of March at 3am,
we will hold an accumulated annual
meeting for 2 or 3 years.

ALL are welcome! Also non members.

We will try to keep the meeting as
English as possible.

Meeting will be held at Messenger
Please join Amiga chat #amigazone @ Element / Matrix Network.

Or join us at IRC @ EFNet, channels:
#amigaguiden (.no)
#amigaweb
#radioreboot

Messenger meeting time is
3 AM local, Norwegian time.

Also, within June or something,
we will announce our Boozt Contest
for ALL - world wide.

1st price will be a mini A500

Times will get better now, fellas!

RadioReboot will be back

Amigaguiden will be back

Amiga MAD Magazine will be back

We'll be back

Are you ready?

Not only for Amiga to be back, but
Atari
C=64
Dragon 32/64
ZX Spectrum
Nintendo
Pegasos
MorphOS
VIC-20
...ALL old school computers

Times WILL be better, dudes and dudettes

Are you ready for the new oldschool future?
You better be, 'cause it's coming...


Amiga.zone

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 9-Mar-2024 11:34:23
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9601
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:
68k Amiga software compatibility: D


Did you know OS4 runs WHDLoad installed games directly from WB like on classic Amiga thanks to the RunInUAE? This feature alone grants Pegasos 2 in my possession even better compatibility with classic software than my good old A1200 (which lacks modern GFX for productivity software and enough CPU power for more recent Amiga games like Heretic 2).


Quote:
game software: D (only because some 68k Amiga games run otherwise F for PPC only games)


Do not forget other emulators/replacement engines. One of my favourites is GemRB: supports several Infinity Engine games (eg. Baldrurs Gate) and is save game compatible with the originals (so I can continue gameplay across all my machines).


I was a longtime WinUAE/OS3 user. I first discovered real power of OS4 thanks to the PowerPC emulation in WinUAE back in 2014. It was slow and limited to 128 MB RAM back then, but the OS4 look and feel along with its superb configuration options were - in my humble POV - far superior to hacks and patches I was used to in the OS3 world. Now my main Amiga machine is Pegasos 2 (with G4 1266 MHz) and when I run WinUAE, it is mostly to do experiments in OS4 in a "safe" way. I only rarely use my well configured OS3 enviroment anymore.

Once QEMU emulation is mature enough (with useable GFX), I will try to make a dedicated OS4 box. It may be close in performance to the X5000, for a fracture of its price (best of both worlds).

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BigD 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 9-Mar-2024 11:47:29
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7333
From: UK

@pavlor

Quote:
even better compatibility with classic software than my good old A1200 (which lacks modern GFX for productivity software and enough CPU power for more recent Amiga games like Heretic 2).


Buy a Vampire/PiStorm and job done!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 9-Mar-2024 12:27:41
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9601
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
Buy a Vampire/PiStorm and job done!


Why downgrade from Pegasos 2?

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ppcamiga1 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 9-Mar-2024 14:16:29
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 805
From: Unknown

amiga ng works like my old amiga 1200 only better because 1000 times faster
native working mui superfast wondrefull amiga I always dreaming on

only drawback of this hobby is some scumbags that never use it
but has mission to switch to pc attack this

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matthey 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 9-Mar-2024 15:51:57
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 2097
From: Kansas

pavlor Quote:

Did you know OS4 runs WHDLoad installed games directly from WB like on classic Amiga thanks to the RunInUAE? This feature alone grants Pegasos 2 in my possession even better compatibility with classic software than my good old A1200 (which lacks modern GFX for productivity software and enough CPU power for more recent Amiga games like Heretic 2).


WHDLoad games are patched restructured Amiga games. I prefer native 68k Amiga software that has not been WHDLoad patched if it is system friendly and not buggy as WHDLoad isolation introduces limitations. This is why most productivity software does not have WHDLoad patching. Only early P5 PPC hardware supported the Amiga custom chips. Even productivity software sometimes fails without CIA hardware. Switching to default chunky from planar screens causes some programs to fail, including productivity programs. AmigaOS 4 68k compatibility is good but 68k Amiga compatibility is poor compared to hardware with custom chips like the V4SA or MiSTer (CPU performance could be better but these devices offer better value than AmigaOS 4 hardware). If considering UAE, WinUAE on affordable PC hardware can be used for a fraction of the cost of PPC hardware and can give emulation performance beyond AmigaOS 4 hardware. Customers speak with their feet and are flocking to more retro compatible and cheaper devices like THEA500 Mini, PiStorm and 68060 accelerated original hardware, V4SA, MiST/MiSTer and WinUAE PC emulation rather than AmigaNOne hardware.

pavlor Quote:

Do not forget other emulators/replacement engines. One of my favourites is GemRB: supports several Infinity Engine games (eg. Baldrurs Gate) and is save game compatible with the originals (so I can continue gameplay across all my machines).


These open source engines for older games can run on most systems that meet the minimum requirements including sub $100 USD devices. Even some of the software AmigaOldskooler posted as AmigaOS 4 software highlights already works on a 68k Amiga or could work on a 68k Amiga. Tower 57, Wipeout and a few Hyperion ports are the only PPC AmigaOS games I think of that are professional quality releases and none of them are AmigaOS 4 exclusive. Tower 57 is the type of newer Indie software with retro pixel art that PPC AmigaOS hardware needs but this is the exception due to an ex-Amiga developer with nostalgia rather than logic. Most ex-Amiga Indie developers shun AmigaOS 4 hardware like Legend of Grimrock developers did. The tiny PPC NG hardware user base makes it more logical to release user friendly 68k Amiga games that will work on NG hardware and only if the spec is low enough. RPi 4 like performance for 20+ times the cost does not justify upgrading to a NG Amiga where gaming is worse than the RPi which has a low performance GPU and is not known for gaming but has a large user base.

pavlor Quote:

I was a longtime WinUAE/OS3 user. I first discovered real power of OS4 thanks to the PowerPC emulation in WinUAE back in 2014. It was slow and limited to 128 MB RAM back then, but the OS4 look and feel along with its superb configuration options were - in my humble POV - far superior to hacks and patches I was used to in the OS3 world. Now my main Amiga machine is Pegasos 2 (with G4 1266 MHz) and when I run WinUAE, it is mostly to do experiments in OS4 in a "safe" way. I only rarely use my well configured OS3 enviroment anymore.

Once QEMU emulation is mature enough (with useable GFX), I will try to make a dedicated OS4 box. It may be close in performance to the X5000, for a fracture of its price (best of both worlds).


I get the appeal of an upgraded AmigaOS. Us 68k AmigaOS users were abandoned while arrogant elites tried to get us to upgrade to excessively overpriced desktop wannabe hardware. The situation has only grown worse as PPC hardware is now more out of date than 68k hardware was when PPC hardware was introduced. I'm not doing the emulation route either. Trevor and his fixer Ben can eat their upgrades if they aren't taken away for stealing them.

Last edited by matthey on 09-Mar-2024 at 03:56 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 9-Mar-2024 19:13:34
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9601
From: Unknown

@matthey

Quote:
I prefer native 68k Amiga software that has not been WHDLoad patched


I really wonder what productivity software you use that is not directly compatible with OS4 and has no better replacement.

Quote:
These open source engines for older games can run on most systems that meet the minimum requirements including sub $100 USD devices.


No GemRB on Amiga-like systems other than OS4 yet, so no Baldurs Gate.

There are too few Amiga software developers left and most of them are in some of the NG camps. Maybe you can try to convince them to support also 68k (like Heretic 2 porter does), but don't hold your breath too high. For gaming, 68k Amiga platform(s) are even more limited than PPC (eg. no real 3D hardware support).

Quote:
I'm not doing the emulation route either.


With QEMU, you can access many of the host features (including USB), using an entire SSD drive for AmigaOS at a full speed (much faster than on any real PowerPC hardware). It is even in theory possible to access PCI/PCIe GFX card (and other cards) as a guest only device (however, as far as I know this doesn't work with AmigaOS yet). Even emulation speed slightly improves. My garbage-class 7 years old notebook (ultra cheap even back then) achieves close to G3 350 MHz performance.

Sure, some purists may say emulation is not the same experience as the real hardware, but such dedicated and properly configured box would offer superb performance for a bargain price. As there is no new powerful and affordable PPC (well, also 68k...) hardware, improved emulation may be quite attractive.

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agami 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 3:55:52
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1686
From: Melbourne, Australia

@AOS4HW

If talking sense and reason is “attacking”, then I shall be your attacker for this portion of the offensive.



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All the way, with 68k

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:44:27
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@Rob

Thx

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:45:28
#71 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@OldFart

Thx for supporting me!

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:50:40
#72 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@eliyahu

I am an old Amigan, so
I'm fully aware of Amigans.net

I WILL join, Sir!

I also own an AmigaOne G4 XE, but
it's dead. I guess it's a minor problem.

Still wanted that X5000

Thx for your support, Sir

I am Pointless of Spaceballs

Spaceballs

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:51:22
#73 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@redfox

I will!

Thx

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:52:32
#74 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@klx300r

Thx!

And drama it is...

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:53:32
#75 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@pixie

Thx!!!

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:54:47
#76 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@Trixie

Thank you very much!!!

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alef 
Re: AmigaOne X5000
Posted on 10-Mar-2024 8:57:33
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 124
From: Norway

@Livebyfaith

Hey, bro!

I live my faith, too

That's why I'm into Amiga

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