some people here cheated by szulc hammer and others spread pistorm propaganda bs
it should be cleared

emu68 works like winuae whole system is emulated
emu68 not works like trance or petunia on mos or Amiga Os 4
on mos or Amiga Os 4 os is native ppc
and just 68k app or library code is translated to ppc code
on mos or Amiga Os 4 68k code use ppc code from os

second pistorm changes commodore hardware into nothing more than joystick mouse keyboard interface for rpi
all important things like cpu ram hdd net gfx sound are on rpi

it is stupid to waste money on change amiga into joystick mouse keyboard interface for rpi
it is expensive and it destroy amiga
want use emulator just use winuae

@ppcamiga1

OK, here we go again! It's Monday morning here and I suspect the usual contributors/contestants/combatants will chime in later on the day.

On a personal note, however, I would like you to stop initiating these kind of topics, as, in my not so extremely humble opinion, they serve darn little purpose on the brink of being quite anoying.

OldFart

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@ppcamiga1

What is your goal?

What exactly do you want to say or to achieve?

Last edited by Birbo on 15-Jul-2024 at 09:27 AM.

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Quote:

Birbo wrote: @ppcamiga1 What is your goal? What exactly do you want to say or to achieve?

I suspect the answer is flame war

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

emu68 works like winuae whole system is emulated

FALSE.

Bare-metal Emu68 is closer to heavy microcode ROM'ed on a simple CPU core i.e. 68000 to 68030.

On 68000 to 68030, 68K instructions are executed in several clock cycles on a simple CPU core.

Fact: Bare-metal Emu68 does NOT emulate a whole machine like WinUAE!

Modern examples are NVIDIA's Project Denver (full ARM ISA being translated for VLIW CPU core) and Transmeta (full X86 ISA being translated for VLIW CPU core).

Quote:

emu68 not works like trance or petunia on mos or Amiga Os 4

The Amiga is not a Mac.

Quote:

second pistorm changes commodore hardware into nothing more than joystick mouse keyboard interface for rpi

The whole point with PiStorm-Emu68 is to keep Commodore's genuine Amiga custom chipset available just as the PC world has kept the retro VGA standard into current GpGPUs.

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 09:54 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 09:53 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 09:45 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 09:44 AM.

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@ppcamiga1

Can you please indicate to the court, using this mannequin, where the PiStorm touched you inappropriately?

@thread

Let's be honest, everyone knows what the PiStorm is and how it works. I honestly don't know why he posts this s**t.

Last edited by Karlos on 15-Jul-2024 at 11:00 AM.
Last edited by Karlos on 15-Jul-2024 at 10:31 AM.

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@Birbo

ppcamiga1 defends the PowerPC direction given by Petro Tyschtschenko of Amiga Technologies GmbH, a subsidiary of Escom and their partner Phase5 Elektronikfertigungs GmbH, who also sells 3rd party PowerPC accelerator cards for the Macintosh market.

ppcamiga1 defends Macintosh influenced userland 68K-to-PowerPC emulation approach.

Much of Phase 5's skill and experience was retained in a new company, bPlan GmbH, which in partnership with Genesi produced the Pegasos (PowerPC).

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 02:38 PM.

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@Hammer

It wasn't a terrible idea at the time. 68K to PPC was a proven transition thanks to Apple.

I just don't see the value today.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @Hammer It wasn't a terrible idea at the time. 68K to PPC was a proven transition thanks to Apple. I just don't see the value today.

One problem, the Amiga is not Mac.

Amiga games' hit-the-metal nature is closer to PC's hit-the-metal protected mode DOS games.

The Amiga used 68K CPU family like the Mac, but with "hit the metal" like PC's protected mode DOS games.

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 02:42 PM.

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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

emu68 works like winuae whole system is emulated

WinUAE relies on a host OS ("Windows") Emu68 only relies on Raspberry Pî hardware.

Quote:

emu68 not works like trance or petunia on mos or Amiga Os 4 on mos or Amiga Os 4 os is native ppc

Of course not, as trance and petunia are components of their respective operating systems.

Quote:

second pistorm changes commodore hardware into nothing more than joystick mouse keyboard interface for rpi all important things like cpu ram hdd net gfx sound are on rpi

For now, it still relies on Amiga hardware as well, if OS developers decide to target Emu68 then this changes.

For what it's worth - I have pistorm systems that I use with Amiga chipset, and not RTG/AHI etc.

Also, I have zero interest in maintaining Windows or Wine just for WinUAE.

Last edited by kolla on 15-Jul-2024 at 02:59 PM.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @Hammer It wasn't a terrible idea at the time. 68K to PPC was a proven transition thanks to Apple.

It was a terrible idea when you factor in the bulk of Amiga's demographics and the wholesale prices for Motorola's PowerPC 601/603/603e/604/604e between 1994 and 1997 (cite Dataquest reports).

PowerPC wasn't ARM's or SuperH's "cheap RISC".

Prove Amiga demographics has Apple's 1.2 million PowerMac spenders in a single year i.e. 1994.

Prove Motorola PowerPC was offered for $40 (cited Amiga Hombre PA-RISC clone's price quotation) from 1995 to 1997.

Hints from AGA Amiga install base

Germany:
Amiga 1200 = 95,500
Amiga CD32 = 25,000
Amiga 4000/030 = 7,500
Amiga 4000/040 = 3,800
Sub-total: 131,800

https://web.archive.org/web/20230726021525/http://www.bambi-amiga.co.uk/amigahistory/sales.html

UK:
Amiga 1200 (Oct - Dec 1992) = 44,000 (Amiga Format May 1993)
Amiga 1200 (Jan - Aug 1993) = 100,000 (Amiga Format September 1993)
Amiga 1200 (Xmas 1993) = 160,000 (Amiga Format 56 Feb 1994)
Amiga CD32 (Xmas 1993) = 70,000 (Amiga Format 56 Feb 1994)
Sub-total: 374,000


There's a failure in market intelligence from the "PowerAmiga" camp.

The Amiga is not a Mac.

PS; IBM's PowerPC 602 for 3DO M2 game console price range can be a candidate. PowerPC 602 has a 1 million transistor budget like the entire Amiga Hombre (including PA-RISC clone) two chips and Sony's PSX/PS1.

After 68K, Motorola doesn't entertain game console CPU prices.

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 03:32 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 03:31 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 03:26 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 15-Jul-2024 at 03:19 PM.

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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@ppcamiga1

Its nice and cheap way to accelerate non PPC Classic Amigas and there is nothing wrong in innovative way PiStorm is used. Its used on other FPGA based retro platorms like SpectrumNEXT etc.

Most of advanced 68k accels would take over the base board except for chipset, so nothing new there.

Method is not to emulate avail chipset, just m68k, so not that much different then Petunia except its emulation that is not in OS, but before OS is booted (which is good, as well as that is done in hardware).

Performance wise, its serious competition to V4 Vampires at reduced cost of mass produced PiStorm

It just shows one possible future, if Amiga could use mass produced hardware

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@ppcamiga1

PiStorm rulez!

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@ppcamiga1

Pistorm offers Amiga 500, 600 and 1200 users a very cost effective way to accelerate and add large amounts of memory to their systems. It is a welcome shot in the arm for Classic systems and will ensure that the Amiga community will be able to develop more advanced software that needed greater resources than the humble 68060 CPU.

EMU68 is an amazing piece of work - you cant really compare it to WinUAE as it is not a total Amiga system emulation.

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@amigakit

Quote:

EMU68 is an amazing piece of work - you cant really compare it to WinUAE as it is not a total Amiga system emulation.

Although truth be told, it's also an amazing piece of software!

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@pixie

I don't think that was a statement intended to detract from UAE, rather to highlight that it's an invalid comparison.

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@Karlos

I know :)

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Karlos It was a terrible idea when you factor in the bulk of Amiga's demographics and the wholesale prices for Motorola's PowerPC 601/603/603e/604/604e between 1994 and 1997 (cite Dataquest reports).

"the bulk of Amiga's demographic" was long gone by the time PPC was chosen.

There was no way forward with 68k.
There was no way forward with the custom chipset.
And before anybody chimes in Vampires with their "meh" performance compared to any HW from the late 90s proves that point.

Could've, should've would've, they tried something different, they couldn't navigate around some roadblocks, PPC died and we are where we are.

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@pixie

I was not trying to denegrate UAE in any way.

However, as you guessed, I was emphasising the huge amount of work that Michal Schulz has put into EMU68. The original poster should be aware of the significant contribution that he and Claude Schwarz have put into the Pistorm project. Their combined efforts have revolutionised the Classic Amiga platform in a short period of time.

Last edited by amigakit on 15-Jul-2024 at 10:23 PM.
Last edited by amigakit on 15-Jul-2024 at 07:48 PM.

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@amigakit

I know, but I guess it also need some love show from time to time! Emu68 is obviously a magnificent piece of work also, and both serve different proposes so they can be amazing each on their own way!

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