@cdimauro

Quote:

In fact, on serious companies you've periodical trainings specifically about that,

Yes and 'serious companies' have dozen of full-time employees. Here you are speaking about a handful of people working on an ancient OS on their spare time just for fun and the love of the platform. Any 'serious company' have left the boat more than 30 years ago or they died.

And regarding your theory about the 'poor abused unpaid developers' by evil puppeteer in the background I can only direct you to Camila Boemann's interview:
Quote:

Q: [...] Are you paid? A: [...] We are not paid, and that is how we explicitly want it to be. While AmigaOS is a huge success the Amiga market is not big enough to pay us more than pocket money anyway. Internally, it would also mean we would have to argue over how much we should each get paid. And we would suddenly be obliged to actually produce something. Right now, we can work all weekend, or do nothing at all for months. No one is yelling at us. We work on it when we have time and when we feel it is fun.

Source: http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwcamillaboemann_en.php

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@abalaban

Quote:

abalaban wrote: @cdimauro Quote: In fact, on serious companies you've periodical trainings specifically about that, Yes and 'serious companies' have dozen of full-time employees. Here you are speaking about a handful of people working on an ancient OS on their spare time just for fun and the love of the platform. Any 'serious company' have left the boat more than 30 years ago or they died.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their company steered by... a lawyer?
Quote:

And regarding your theory about the 'poor abused unpaid developers' by evil puppeteer in the background I can only direct you to Camila Boemann's interview: Quote: Q: [...] Are you paid? A: [...] We are not paid, and that is how we explicitly want it to be. While AmigaOS is a huge success the Amiga market is not big enough to pay us more than pocket money anyway. Internally, it would also mean we would have to argue over how much we should each get paid. And we would suddenly be obliged to actually produce something. Right now, we can work all weekend, or do nothing at all for months. No one is yelling at us. We work on it when we have time and when we feel it is fun. Source: http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwcamillaboemann_en.php

Wrong quote? That wasn't my theory.

abalaban Quote:

Yes and 'serious companies' have dozen of full-time employees. Here you are speaking about a handful of people working on an ancient OS on their spare time just for fun and the love of the platform. Any 'serious company' have left the boat more than 30 years ago or they died.

A business that coerces other businesses to steal Amiga IP, challenges ownership of Amiga IP and sues to steal more Amiga IP is serious enough. Corrupt businesses cause other serious businesses and developers to leave.

abalaban Quote:

And regarding your theory about the 'poor abused unpaid developers' by evil puppeteer in the background I can only direct you to Camila Boemann's interview: Quote: Q: [...] Are you paid? A: [...] We are not paid, and that is how we explicitly want it to be. While AmigaOS is a huge success the Amiga market is not big enough to pay us more than pocket money anyway. Internally, it would also mean we would have to argue over how much we should each get paid. And we would suddenly be obliged to actually produce something. Right now, we can work all weekend, or do nothing at all for months. No one is yelling at us. We work on it when we have time and when we feel it is fun. Source: http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwcamillaboemann_en.php

The interview has a link to https://developer.amigaos3.net/ which at the bottom of the home page is "Made with �� by walkero and the AmigaOS 3 dev team". Clicking the "walkero" link goes to "https://ko-fi.com/walkero". Ko-fi is like Patreon with user supported payment for developers and creators.

The 68k AmigaOS developers believed it was necessary to keep the price of a new 68k AmigaOS low for it to be successful. They were correct as the new 68k AmigaOS has been largely ignored for new hardware like the Vamp/AC, A600GS, A1200NG, THEA1200 (aka THEA500 Maxi), etc. The 68k AmigaOS devs were givers and sacrificed for what they believed in. Ben is a taker/stealer and sacrificed their effort for him to perpetuate the theft of Amiga IP. The nearly 100% profit went to lawsuits and likely Ben's pocket as he payed himself rather than being used to restart and proliferate the 68k AmigaOS. Michele tried to negotiate for the free release of the updated 68k AmigaOS which Ben agreed to before backing out after realizing it was most of Hyperion's income. THEA1200 would likely be near production with the latest AmigaOS had Ben not taken the sacrifice of the 68k AmigaOS devs.

@Thread

If there's a delay on THEA1200, how about another batch of THEA500 Mini in the meantime? The prices have gone through the roof recently! [Edit: removed comment about laggy website, posted on wrong thread].

Last edited by BigD on 02-May-2025 at 03:51 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 02-May-2025 at 06:23 AM.

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@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: The 68k AmigaOS developers believed it was necessary to keep the price of a new 68k AmigaOS low for it to be successful. They were correct as the new 68k AmigaOS has been largely ignored for new hardware like the Vamp/AC, A600GS, A1200NG, THEA1200 (aka THEA500 Maxi), etc. The 68k AmigaOS devs were givers and sacrificed for what they believed in.

They didn't sacrifice anything.

AmigaOS 3.2.3 costs €43 retail, which is a fair price IMHO. The Icedrake costs €589, almost 14 times more. I bet the Apollo team could have negotiated a cheap OEM price for AmigaOS if they wanted. But they didn't - both due to the ongoing litigation issues and because they want to modify it to suit the Vampire. But their actions suggest didn't want to pay for it anyway.

So no matter what Ben was doing with the money, it didn't stop the price from being 'low'.

Quote:

Ben is a taker/stealer and sacrificed their effort for him to perpetuate the theft of Amiga IP. The nearly 100% profit went to lawsuits and likely Ben's pocket as he payed himself rather than being used to restart and proliferate the 68k AmigaOS.

The Apollo team were takers too, selling Vampires with 'free' AmigaOS copies they didn't pay for. I am technically a pirate for buying one, since I no longer have an AmigaOS 3.1 ROM.

Saying that Ben didn't proliferate 68k AmigaOS seems wrong to me. Wasn't it Hyperion that restarted development of OS 3, and didn't they produce numerous updates up to 3.2.3?

I'm struggling to understand why money going to lawsuits is theft. But I haven't been following the drama because the discussion has been too toxic. I understand that Ben is now bankrupt, so presumably the courts will be sorting it out and he will be barred from any involvement in the business. Hopefully that means development of AmigaOS will continue. With Ben out of the way we won't have him to blame for any more shenanigans that occur. I bet it won't stop people from trying though.

@bhabbott

Negotiate with Hyperion ?

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Thread If there's a delay on THEA1200, how about another batch of THEA500 Mini in the meantime? The prices have gone through the roof recently! The website considering it is quite simple is very laggy at times. I assume it in a phase of being run down and retired from the feel of things?!

Not as laggy as this website. I presume that means amigaworld.net is in a phase of being run down and retired. Or perhaps the 53% of internet traffic that is bots has something to do with it.

Dunno about TheA500 Mini. Is there still enough room in the market for another batch? Could they make it cheaper now that Covid restrictions are over? Or is the world economy now so screwed that it won't be profitable at any price?

I'm betting they are putting all their resources into TheA1200. The delay is apparently caused by suppliers getting cold feet over the legal situation. Hopefully it will be resolved soon!

Meanwhile I'm thinking about what to do with my spare A1200 motherboard. My plan was to build an A1000 style case for it, but I need to get motivated enough to actually do it.

@kriz

Quote:

kriz wrote: @bhabbott Negotiate with Hyperion ?

This is what I was talking about.

I would ask you to explain what you mean by this, but why bother? If it was important you would have done so.

@bhabbott

You must be on the oldskool 56kb dialup experience ISP package.
This site is not laggy in the least. So has to be your end.

_________________

@bhabbott

Impossible to negotiate with Hyperion, try and they get you to court afterwards.

@F0L

Off-topic:

New rank/banner? "System Administrator" or did I miss something?

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Its always been there. Just have not logged in for 7 years.

_________________

@bhabbott

Quote:

Not as laggy as this website. I presume that means amigaworld.net is in a phase of being run down and retired. Or perhaps the 53% of internet traffic that is bots has something to do with it.

Ha, ha, I meant this website! It must have been so irresponsive that I must have pushed the back button too many times and posted edit on the wrong thread! Says it all!

Last edited by BigD on 02-May-2025 at 03:50 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@bhabbott

Quote:

I understand that Ben is now bankrupt, so presumably the courts will be sorting it out and he will be barred from any involvement in the business.

I think you are confusing Ben Hermans BV with Ben Hermans advocate.

The BV was declaried bankrupt. Ben has his own private practice as an individual.

Here

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Ah, my mistake. In New Zealand bankruptcy only applies to individuals, not companies. However company directors are responsible for ensuring the business stays solvent and pays it debts. Failure to perform their duties may result in them being barred from running other businesses. They may also be held personally liable for debts incurred, especially if there is evidence of theft or fraud.

When I started a small retail shop selling computers in 1991 my lawyer set it up as a company with him and me as the only shareholders, specifically to avoid personal liability. Then the law changed and this arrangement became redundant. The only good thing was I can now say I was the managing director and owner of a company, which sounds impressive if you don't know the details.