10) Where do you see Amiga in 10 years time?

Lol, well you asked.....
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In other words, stuck in the past with nowhere to go!


Loki

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Amiga - Resistance used to be Futile!

And this project, whilst good, won't get us out of the past.

I actually think that this is a great project. I would love to get one to replace the PPC board in my A1200. But therein lies the problem. I need my Blizz card to run OS4 (when it gets here). That said I hope to be able to get an A1 board and retire my A1200. But with this card I may be able to carry on using it as a MP3 player or something, which wouold be cool.

The comment I find interesting is:
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Im not a big fan of the A1 or Pegasos, not because they dont do the job well, I am sure they do, but I look at them and cant help thinking PC

That is interesting. Lets look at the A2/3/4000. In thier time, how are they much different from the PCs that were around at the time? They had Zorro slots, the PC had ISA, the Amiga had built in graphics, so did the PC (albeit less powerful). Alot of people upgraded thier GFX with someform of video card, just as the PC can do. THe same applies to sound, i/o ports etc. So the real differences aren't that much. The A1/PEG are just as similar as the A2/3/4000 machines, but they now use PCI and AGP slots, they still have built in sound, tho the graphics are now handled via an upgradeable card (ignoring th uA1 for now!).

As any Amigan knows, time and technology move on, we need to move with it, or be stuck in the 1980-90s forever.

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I love this project! I have a CD32 which wants to be upgraded

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ikir

Hi,

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I need my Blizz card to run OS4 (when it gets here).

Ahh but do you need to run OS4?

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But with this card I may be able to carry on using it as a MP3 player or something, which wouold be cool.

What a waste.

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That is interesting. Lets look at the A2/3/4000. In thier time, how are they much different from the PCs that were around at the time?

Ahh but who bought an A2/3/4000 new? Not many of us, we all got the A500, A1200, CDTV and CD32. Only the people who wanted an office computer got an A2Kk, A3k or A4k.

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The A1/PEG are just as similar as the A2/3/4000 machines,

Very true, although without a standard graphics/sound/io chipset so you can just load a game or program like you could on the A2/3/4K's, you have to load them through the GUI.. why load a full CPU intensive OS just to play a game?

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As any Amigan knows, time and technology move on, we need to move with it, or be stuck in the 1980-90s forever.

When most people bought Amiga's the Amiga was still in development and was moving with technology, it just did it a different way, as standard you had a games console style device, stick a floppy or CD in and it loaded, you played with it and then turned it off, if you wanted to print something or use a special upgrade you would load the GUI and use it as you would a fully blown system, but the key thing is you didnt need to do that, its like an advanced games console, a gap that is still there, games consoles cant word process, surf the net or do things like that, big box systems are to complex, requiring you to install the game after waiting for the OS to load.

As for moving on well you can move on without sacrificing everything to do it, cant you?

Anyway that bit of the interview was my ideal, something that probably never happen where as the A1 is here now but hey, its good to talk?, I mean deam.

Hi,

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And this project, whilst good, won't get us out of the past.

But with the PPC we would always be one step behind the Mac, a different CPU would confuse people so you could pass the lower Mhz off as not meaning anything.

Do you honestly want the new Amiga not to have anything the old one had?
Do you want to leave them behind even if they still have a use? (Im talking PPC upgrades here, like the Cyberstorm running OS4)

You must like the Amiga else you wouldnt still be here, the Coldfire card, although still reliant on the old motherboard, is a massive step forward hopefully without leaving much behind, its not ideal, but then what is?

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But with the PPC we would always be one step behind the Mac, a different CPU would confuse people so you could pass the lower Mhz off as not meaning anything.

Well, for the most part, it seems that Amiga has always been a step (maybe half a step) behind the Mac in it's CPU range... But what's to say that IBM cannot up their production if more chips are needed (ie. if Amiga starts selling in large enough numbers) to meet the demands of both companies?

About the MHz stuff not meaning anything... Gateway has already started running those commercials in recent months for thier PC's. It goes something like: "Forget about Giga this and Mega that...." etc.... I don't recall all of it, but it did catch my ear when I heard it for the first time.

My kinda guy!

(Sorry, but I'm all classic...a bunch of PC-hw running OS4 isn't an Amiga "amymore" than my PC running WinUAE...hehe! don't hate me!! )

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Richard Fhager - MegaMuchoCoolerz

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(Sorry, but I'm all classic...a bunch of PC-hw running OS4 isn't an Amiga "amymore" than my PC running WinUAE...hehe! don't hate me!! )

There is a big difference in WinUAE (an emulator) and the OS running native on it's own hardware. I don't hate you... it's your opinion. I just don't agree with it. By this logic, we should all still be riding horse and carts everywhere. There has to be a way to move the market forward, without new, and STANDARD hardware, it will never gain the acceptance that Amiga did in the early years when there were no real "industry standards" in place.

[making a point mode]

I'll never understand when people say that the AmigaOne is just "PC Hardware" and is not a true Amiga. Then they say that the PC is ages old technology. What they refuse to acknowlege is that todays PC hardware is JUST as different from what was available during Amiga's heyday, as the AmigaOne is from the original Amiga hardware.

You just cannot have it both ways. People say the new hardware is not Amiga because it is so different... yet claim the PC hardware is the same thing that it has been since the origin of the PC, only faster....

With this logic, I can conclude that today's PC hardware is not a PC at all. Once they changed to PCI and AGP, it ceased being a PC completely. Just because it's running Windows doesn't make it a PC.

[/making a point mode]

See what I mean?

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But with the PPC we would always be one step behind the Mac, a different CPU would confuse people so you could pass the lower Mhz off as not meaning anything.

How would going with the Coldfire solve anything of that (the Amiga being slower then a comparable Mac)?
I mean it's slower then about all other CPU architectures out there, MIPS and SPARC included.

Secondly, unlike Motorola that aims to sell it's CPUs mainly to embedded markets, thus creating a smal pool of high preformance CPUs only sold to Apple at a silly price. IBM will sell 970 and 970FXs not only to Apple but allso themselfes (blade servers and such) and to anyone interested in making low cost high preformance kit. IBM != Motorola

And third, for how long will Motorolas CPU division be around, is it really wise to put all the eggs in basket that we don't know if it'll still be around in five years time?


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Do you honestly want the new Amiga not to have anything the old one had?

Like what? Zorro slots, ooohhh I miss those ... not.

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You must like the Amiga else you wouldnt still be here, the Coldfire card, although still reliant on the old motherboard, is a massive step forward hopefully without leaving much behind, its not ideal, but then what is?

Nothing is ideal, but some things are closer to it then others. Not that the Coldfire won't make a nice uppgrade to the classic machines. If I had a classic Amiga I'd propably end up buying a coldfire card for it, if nothing else then just for the fun of it.

Hi,

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How would going with the Coldfire solve anything of that (the Amiga being slower then a comparable Mac)?

Well it wouldnt but it isnt a PPC so it wouldnt be one step behind, it would be one step to the left, a world of difference.

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Zorro slots, ooohhh I miss those ... not.

I would.

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"Do you honestly want the new Amiga not to have anything the old one had?" Like what?

A set platform, as in a specfic graphics chip, specfic sound chip, etc, a set standard is a good thing.
Ohter than that.. Video slots, zorro slots, kickstart... thats about it really.

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If I had a classic Amiga I'd propably end up buying a coldfire card for it, if nothing else then just for the fun of it.

Good, good, good, computers should be for fun.

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Well it wouldnt but it isnt a PPC so it wouldnt be one step behind, it would be one step to the left, a world of difference.

No, not really.

And BTW, you know for a definite fact that we would allways get slower CPUs? Well I suppose that we could fix it by going with a drastically slower architecture...

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A set platform, as in a specfic graphics chip, specfic sound chip, etc, a set standard is a good thing.

which is nice in the sense that you can have a minimum spec for things, but then again as long as you have got drivers for other peripherials, what's the point? We are not going back to the dark ages of hardware banging anyway and choise do is a nice thing. And I do agree on your statement that standards is a nice thing, like PCI and AGP which enables us to use low cost peripherials.

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Ohter than that.. Video slots, zorro slots, kickstart... thats about it really.

Why? No really? (and the kickstart do exists on modern Amigas, it's just that it's software based)

Oh, how did I know someone would take a bite!?

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By this logic, we should all still be riding horse and carts everywhere

The heyday of Amiga Classic, with its (native) hardware, software & creative community represents, in my mind, the pinnacle of computer history (Like an ancient culture has an undying appeal).

Sure it's better to build ANY new Amiga than NO Amiga, for no other reason but to keep the name alive....

...but if you can't run Mental Hangover without emulation you don't really have an Amiga, do you!?

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Richard Fhager - MegaMuchoCoolerz

Hi,

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you know for a definite fact that we would allways get slower CPUs?

No but who would you sell your brand new PPC chips to first? Macintosh or Amiga?

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Well I suppose that we could fix it by going with a drastically slower architecture...

Sounds like a great idea, lets do it

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And I do agree on your statement that standards is a nice thing, like PCI and AGP which enables us to use low cost peripherials.

Yep, Im not against PCI or AGP either, I prefer the Zorro concept though. (Personal choice)
Low cost is nice (sometimes) but remember someone has to make the drivers (And ideally be paid for doing so)

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"video slots, zorro slots, kickstart" Why? No really?

Video slots, well because its a nice way, you can plug a hardware Mpeg player in (Peggy) and a graphics card, genlock, scan doubler, etc, without any wires or using the data bus to DMA the vid data.

Zorro slots, well I love the idea of actually connecting the upgrades to the CPU bus, and not to a PCI chip which may or may not have bugs but either way not ideal, other than that how about when you stick a CPU in with a faster bus your slots go faster? yes the Buster holds the bus back but hey its a great concept.

The kickstart, well thats because I like the idea of sticking a game or program in and booting off it without needed to go to a full os, there are other reasons but its just the feel it gives I guess, silly I know.

On a side note I would totally buy a new A4000 motherboard, even today, even with the AGA chipset. (Although I would stick a graphics card in) I wonder howmany other people would? hmm.

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On a side note I would totally buy a new A4000 motherboard, even today, even with the AGA chipset. (Although I would stick a graphics card in) I wonder howmany other people would? hmm.

Yeah I think I prolly would n'all
Tom

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hmmmm
A3000 - 040 - 32Mb Ram - 1.2GB SCSI HD - OS 3.9 - Cybervision 64/3D / 19" Rackmount - Int

I would buy this for my A2000!

But, I'd prefer that there were 4 memory slots on there, for upto 512 Megs * 4 = 2 Gigs (OR, how much CAN AOS control ?!!! )!

I would be willing to pre-order too.

USB2.0 would REALLY be a plus, even necessary!

Wishlist:
An EIDE interface with a compact flash socket on the ColdFusion board!!!!!
Nearly instaboot!

With this machine, I think we could put pc users to SHAME! (A graphics card in the video slot would be needed too, though.)


Amiga! AOS1.3 to 3.9! R U L E !!!!!!!

Motorola has just announced that they will start with the production of the new v4e ColdFire series. This new ColdFire family is enhanced with an MMU and a FPU and can run at higher clock frequencies. The new CPUs also have an in-build DDR-SDRAM controller IIRC.

@Oli_hd
About 2 or 3 years ago I communicated with Stefan Robl per e-Mail about his QBox project (www.qdev.de). We talked about using the ColdFire CPUs as a replacement for the old 68k CPUs. We came to the conclusion that this would not have any benefits, as the ColdFire v4 CPU still lacks some very important instructions (for example the DIV (division) instruction, which is widely used in every Amiga program). Have you already started to make a concept for the emulation of unsupported instructions (maybe a JIT), to minimize the performance loss due to the emulation?

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A1SE: G3@600MHz, 2GB, 1GBit network card
A1XE: G4@933MHz, 2GB, refitted AC'97 codec
microA1: G3@800MHz, 1GB

- A1 Linux support -

"But with the PPC we would always be one step behind the Mac, a different CPU would confuse people so you could pass the lower Mhz off as not meaning anything."

Not sure I approve of that tactic, with coldfusion we would be more than one step behind.

"Do you honestly want the new Amiga not to have anything the old one had?"

Its got printer and serial ports and the most useful part - the operating system.

"Do you want to leave them behind even if they still have a use? (Im talking PPC upgrades here, like the Cyberstorm running OS4)"

No, and nothing I said should have given you that impression.


"You must like the Amiga else you wouldnt still be here,"

Err, what made you think I didn't like the Amiga? I like the Amiga enough to spend money on a new A1 for example, to help run this site, etc etc.

"the Coldfire card, although still reliant on the old motherboard, is a massive step forward hopefully without leaving much behind, its not ideal, but then what is?"

I don't think its a massive step forward, I think its just helping old amigas stay off the scrapheap for a few more years and there is nothing wrong in that.

AOS4 on A1 is a massive step forward /for Amiga/.

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but remember someone has to make the drivers (And ideally be paid for doing so)

And oddly enough if we would start making our own peripherials and such, drivers would still be needed. One of the uppsides of not paying the hardware development cost is that you can afford to write more drivers for third party hardware.

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Video slots, well because its a nice way, you can plug a hardware Mpeg player in (Peggy) and a graphics card, genlock, scan doubler, etc, without any wires or using the data bus to DMA the vid data.

And what about the cost of adopting a GPU to a custom [slow] video slot? Or using a totaly point to point subsystem (PCI-Express)?

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Zorro slots, well I love the idea of actually connecting the upgrades to the CPU bus, and not to a PCI chip which may or may not have bugs but either way not ideal, other than that how about when you stick a CPU in with a faster bus your slots go faster? yes the Buster holds the bus back but hey its a great concept.

While the Zorro has it's points there are other solutions out there that are faster and that's got more hardware available to them. And why would one want to connect anyting else then the CPU to the CPU buss?

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The kickstart, well thats because I like the idea of sticking a game or program in and booting off it without needed to go to a full os, there are other reasons but its just the feel it gives I guess, silly I know.

I do belive that the same thing could be achieved with a USB stick with the Os and some scripts on it, ie the computer boots from the flashcard then uses the scripts to driectly boot into the game without the user ever knowing about it. [/speculation]

But anyway the classic Amiga and the consept with which it was made, while nice in many ways, has been eclipsed by modern hardware. Why deny ourselfes it?

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Poster: DawnBringer Date: 13-Mar-2004 11:03:40 Oh, how did I know someone would take a bite!?

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The heyday of Amiga Classic, with its (native) hardware, software & creative community represents, in my mind, the pinnacle of computer history (Like an ancient culture has an undying appeal).

I agree. And there will likely never be anything of it's equal again in terms of sparking a revolutionary way of doing things with a computer. I hope I'm wrong. But people have seen what the original Amiga could do. They liked it, used it, and moved on when it could no longer keep up.

It did what it did very well, and better than any other system to date. That does not mean that you should stay in the past. Otherwise it will become like those ancient civilizations. Something that you can read about, but never really experience. Do people in those civilizations today live like they did during the ancient times or have they adapted to modern conveinences?

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...but if you can't run Mental Hangover without emulation you don't really have an Amiga, do you!?

If it runs AmigaOS natively, it's an Amiga. Period. I'll tell you what, when you get that 220MHz Coldfire Amiga running, let's put it up against an AmigaOne running OS4 and see which one outperforms the other. How's that?