>> think the OLPC is a good initiative and it's quite a unique piece of kit. People are always going to say it's underpowered, but it's working with a different set of constraints. For most of the tech industry, it's "put the highest spec in a cheap disposable box". We've got the wrong mindset at times.

Mah! I just think it has a western business-guilt taste...

>>ps. I wish Cloanto would change that background. Every time I've launched Amiga Forever I've felt like I'm looking through John Major's eyes. Everything is grey!

I know! Let's have a different colour! It's a bit early 90s!

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I've given you a link and a quote from the people that know far more about the subject than either of us and yet you still argue the toss. Geez, youre more stubborn than a donkey in treacle thats smoked a fat one.

Fact is, giving people a laptop that they can power themselves by mechanical means and that has no moving parts and a hardened screen to protect agaisnt the biggest killer of hardware - the elements, is far easier and more likely to succeed than getting all the governments in the UN to agree on rebuilding the infastructure for 2 billion people in countries that offer them no immediate payback or return on their investment.

Yeah, building real schools, roads, powergrids, economy and laptop battery recharging facitities for each of them would be the better option. Its never going to happen though is it?

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>>I've given you a link and a quote from the people that know far more about the subject than either of us and yet you still argue the toss. Geez, youre more stubborn than a donkey in treacle thats smoked a fat one.

LOL! It's just that I don't like the concept, the end product looks cheap and ugly, it's got wireless inbuilt, which I hate and I am not sure it's completely "humanitarian" as it wants to appear...that's all.

>>Fact is, giving people a laptop that they can power themselves by mechanical means and that has no moving parts and a hardened screen to protect agaisnt the biggest killer of hardware - the elements, is far easier and more likely to succeed than getting all the governments in the UN to agree on rebuilding the infastructure for 2 billion people in countries that offer them no immediate payback or return on their investment.

Unless they discover oil in those countries...

>>Yeah, building real schools, roads, powergrids, economy and laptop battery recharging facitities for each of them would be the better option. Its never going to happen though is it?

Probably not...

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@logicalheart

Quote:

I think the project is deception and deserving of nothing. But It's neat that AmigaForever runs on it.

Wow, that's a bit harsh, from what I've seen of the OLPC I think they are completely open and transparent in the desires and motivation.

What do you see as wrong with giving kids access to learning materials, electronic books (physical books are far to expensive to provide in remote locations), a tools to allow them to share their learnig experience and in some cases the first communication tool thet they have ever had?????

Darren

If you are interested you could look here for some real information on the OLPC: OLPC Info Site - click the pictures for more info

Last edited by newbee on 06-Jan-2008 at 08:15 PM.

@TheDaddy

Quote:

I see that helps, thanks for explaining but wouldn't be better to help them in a different way instead of giving them laptops? Certainly these children need more important things?

That is a view shared by most people sho have not bothered to find out what the OLPC is really about.

This is a chance to give children a really powerful learning tools, which provides:
learning applications
communication tools (will be the first communication tool some of these kids have ever seen)
Access to books (in the form of ebooks)
the ability to access information from the internet
a chance to lear haw to program and adapt a tool to more suit their needs
FUN..

Just spend a bit of time reading this:
{OLPC info} and perhaps some of the testimonial here: { real life testimonials nad info on what OLPC is achieving}

It's easy to be harsh and critical, it's hard to actually improve the chances of children in some of these places. Give this a fair go before condemning it.

Darren

@Darren

I can't go over the whole discussion again...plese read all my previous comments.

I am not lazy it's just that I have explained my views already.

Thanks.

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@The Daddy

I respect your right to disagree, but feel that people are too hasty to dismiss this project without being fully informed on what it is actually intended for or what it has already archived.

If you are truly well informed about the project and still disagree then I cannot argue that. It's every bodies right after all.

Similarly there is still plenty of room for "constructive feedback" as it is still an open source project.

The need filled by the OLPC is both sweeping and complex and no single answer/solution is going to solve all of the problems.

Personally I'm wondering if there will be forums like this in 10+ years time where people from all over the world are fondly remembering the fun they had with their OLPC computers.... Time will tell...

Darren

@Team

On a different note, I'm impressed that Clonto have achieve with AmigaForever (assuming they have limited resources) what Microsoft (With their untold BILLIONS) could not archive.

Getting ANY OS to run on the highly customized OLPC is impressive, the fact that it's running an unmodified Amiga OS just blows me away (Yes I know it's on emulated hardware, but the performance requirements of Amiga OS are low enough to make this a viable option).

WELL DONE...

Darren

edit: Gees i wish my fingers could spell better as they type....

Last edited by newbee on 06-Jan-2008 at 09:04 PM.

>>I respect your right to disagree, but feel that people are too hasty to dismiss this project without being fully informed

I am still of the same opinion even after reading about it on wiki and their site.

>>If you are truly well informed about the project and still disagree then I cannot argue that. It's every bodies right after all.

I agree...

>>Similarly there is still plenty of room for "constructive feedback" as it is still an open source project.

I wished they asked some other designer to come up with a better looking case, that one offends my eyes! LOL!

>>Personally I'm wondering if there will be forums like this in 10+ years time where people from all over the world are fondly remembering the fun they had with their OLPC computers.... Time will tell...

They could have had fun with any computer really, even a load full of A1200s! But as you say only time will tell. I wish them luck but that case man!

Why is it that some "designers" feel the right to design hairy-arse-ugly products just because they are either for a good cause or eco-friendly...I will never understand that. It's the same with hybrid cars, just because they are hybrid they have got to look like the Toyota Prius or the Honda Insight...!!!

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>>Getting ANY OS to run on the highly customized OLPC is impressive, the fact that it's running an unmodified Amiga OS just blows me away (Yes I know it's on emulated hardware, but the performance requirements of Amiga OS are low enough to make this a viable option).

True but can AF do what XP, OSX or Linux do and I am asking in a nice way. Displaying webpages properly, playing content (java, flash) and all the fancy stuff that IE7, Firefox and Safari can?

It's only a question, please don't start attacking! LOL!

Can AF do that because if it can I might sell my AF6 and get 8!

Last edited by TheDaddy on 06-Jan-2008 at 09:11 PM.

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@TheDaddy

Last reply for now (honest)

Quote:

Why is it that some "designers" feel the right to design hairy-arse-ugly products just because they are either for a good cause or eco-friendly.

Actually your response proves that the design is perfect. It is intended to be "fun for kids but offensive to adults"... If the computer was too acceptable they would have an unreasonable risk of people stealing them from the very children they are intended to help. By making them SO BLEEDING OBVIOUS it protects them as there is some "peer pressure" if an adult is seen trying to use one.

It also includes and extensive security system called "bit frost" - the details of which I'm not fully across yet.

Bye for Now

Darren

Quote:

True but can AF do what XP, OSX or Linux do and I am asking in a nice way. Displaying webpages properly, playing content (java, flash) and all the fancy stuff that IE7, Firefox and Safari can?

In case you haven't noticed, AF is Amiga emulation. So it can do what is possible with AmigaOS 1.x-3.x.
Doing "all the fancy stuff that IE7, Firefox and Safari can" is definitely not possible as you might have guessed.

>>Actually your response proves that the design is perfect. It is intended to be "fun for kids but offensive to adults"... If the computer was too acceptable they would have an unreasonable risk of people stealing them from the very children they are intended to help. By making them SO BLEEDING OBVIOUS it protects them as there is some "peer pressure" if an adult is seen trying to use one.

If people need or want to steal they'll steal anything, including stuff that it is intended for children.

You don't have to use them as they are, often people steal something to use or re-sell its components.

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>>In case you haven't noticed, AF is Amiga emulation. So it can do what is possible with AmigaOS 1.x-3.x.
Doing "all the fancy stuff that IE7, Firefox and Safari can" is definitely not possible as you might have guessed

So isn't a laptop like that, with AF on , a bit limited?

So we are back to my original post:
"How can emulated Amiga OS3.9 be of any use apart from maybe doing some bitmap graphics and playing the 100 games...?"

But we are going round in circles here...

Time to go to bed...

Later

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Quote:

LOL! It's just that I don't like the concept, the end product looks cheap and ugly,

By design. They have made it look as kiddie and crap as possible to make sure that the laptops do not get stolen and sold off by gangs/militants/whatever in Africa.

Quote:

it's got wireless inbuilt, which I hate

So, do you have any better ways of providing internet in the middle of the desert? Or communication between two computers in two nearby villages that have no internet? I'm all ears.

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I think those laptops are brilliant too. For what they have in them they are amazing at the price. So is the financing concept. As a former teacher I can appreciate the need for ruggedness.

As I understand it, though developed as a take home device (get the parents involved), so far the laptops are tending to be kept in the schools.

Where providing schools is concerned, there are agencies working on that. You can donate! Virtually every community wants a school and usually provides something. Sir Edmund Hillary spent his life, after Everest, providing schools for people in remoter parts of Nepal.

With respect, refurbishing old laptops is not going to serve, although there are places in the Himalayers and Africa I've heard of where the village has one old computer and wifi or if phone line, intermittent connection.

My own experience of trying to repair things and use them for something else has othen turned out to be less than satisfactory, and more expensive, compared with something purpose built, although I was enormously proud of the winch I made out of an old mangle found on the harbour bed. I built a 5/8 dome house plus basement with it.

Noel

>>By design. They have made it look as kiddie and crap as possible to make sure that the laptops do not get stolen and sold off by gangs/militants/whatever in Africa.

As I have already said, it could be as cheap and as ugly as you possibly can make it, IF "gangs/militants/whatever" want to steal and sell it they WILL. Its looks won't stop them so that is nonsense.

>>So, do you have any better ways of providing internet in the middle of the desert? Or communication between two computers in two nearby villages that have no internet? I'm all ears.

That's not up to me to decide, I don't get paid for that. That is the reason why I said, if you read my previous posts, that before going all fancy with wireless laptops, we should concentrate on giving these children a better life, food, clothes, schools, education, transport, clean water, health service.

On top of this we give them wireless laptops, I don't believe that. We are giving these children a nice blast of radiation everytime they switch the darn thing on, superb! And because they are "in the middle of the desert" they need more powerful radiowaves to provide the ever so "useful" internet access. Nice one.

Last edited by TheDaddy on 07-Jan-2008 at 08:48 AM.

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>>I think those laptops are brilliant too. For what they have in them they are amazing at the price. So is the financing concept. As a former teacher I can appreciate the need for ruggedness.

I am not disputing the technological aspect of the frigging laptop!

>>Where providing schools is concerned, there are agencies working on that. You can donate! Virtually every community wants a school and usually provides something. Sir Edmund Hillary spent his life, after Everest, providing schools for people in remoter parts of Nepal.

This is great but we are not near enough to what we should be doing. I bet if we said that these countries have huge oil reserves they would either be 1) invaded 2) invaded and then "improved", 3) invaded and made the center of technological expertise!

>>With respect, refurbishing old laptops is not going to serve, although there are places in the Himalayers and Africa I've heard of where the village has one old computer and wifi or if phone line, intermittent connection.

So you are with me on improving the infrastructure first?

>>My own experience of trying to repair things and use them for something else has othen turned out to be less than satisfactory, and more expensive, compared with something purpose built

It might be purpose built, I am fine with that. I don't like its looks and the fact that it has been designed to be "child friendly" so that it doesn't get stolen is pure rubbish.

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Ok, so Linux/UAE is running under an x86 computer... not really "without modification" as the news item talks about "unlocking USB"...

So what ?

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Quote:

As I have already said, it could be as cheap and as ugly as you possibly can make it, IF "gangs/militants/whatever" want to steal and sell it they WILL. Its looks won't stop them so that is nonsense.

They won't steal it and sell it if no-one wants to buy it from them and it makes them no money.

Quote:

That's not up to me to decide, I don't get paid for that. That is the reason why I said, if you read my previous posts, that before going all fancy with wireless laptops, we should concentrate on giving these children a better life, food, clothes, schools, education, transport, clean water, health service.

Some people are doing what they can and what they can is produce laptops. Other people could give those kids a better life but are not and will not be doing so, hence the problem.

Quote:

On top of this we give them wireless laptops, I don't believe that. We are giving these children a nice blast of radiation everytime they switch the darn thing on, superb! And because they are "in the middle of the desert" they need more powerful radiowaves to provide the ever so "useful" internet access. Nice one.

The electromagnetic radiation from WiFi is not proven to cause anyone any damage. An average city has far far far far more electromagnetic radiation from TV and radio stations and you have that whether you have WiFi in your house or not.

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