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News   News : Iraq, the situation
   posted by cyka on 20-Mar-2003 10:43:28 (3061 reads)
British troops 'ready to go'




UK troops have moved through Kuwait to the Iraqi border
British troops are waiting at Iraq's southern border following US-led missile strikes on and around Baghdad.
The US began "limited" strikes against the Iraqi capital at about 0230 GMT - 0530 local time - 90 minutes after the passing of its deadline for Saddam Hussein to leave Iraq.

UK Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon confirmed the first attacks were targeting the Iraqi leadership and suggested the main offensive would begin "very shortly".

Mr Hoon, who will make a statement in the House of Commons later on Thursday, said British forces had been involved in some "preparatory operations" overnight.

There are also reports Britain has asked its Nato ally Turkey for permission for British jets to use Turkish airspace to launch attacks on Iraq.

A Foreign Office spokesman said the Foreign Secretary Jack Straw had contacted Ankara overnight, but refused to reveal details of the conversation.

This was not a drill, it could have been a real live chemical attack

Lieutenant Sean Tully


Click here for full story

The RAF's Wing Commander Dave Bye says its aircraft have not yet been involved in offensive action but could be sent on operations "within 24 hours".

Suggestions that the initial strikes came as a surprise to the Ministry of Defence (MoD) were rejected by Mr Hoon.

He said Britain had been "well aware of the target", adding that there was "full openness and consultation between the alliance members".

He added that UK forces were in a "high state of readiness".

British experts at Central Command have been assessing the impact of the overnight air strike on five senior members of Saddam Hussein's regime in Baghdad.

Surprise attack

One source said vehicles as well as buildings had been targeted in the attack, which involved 36 cruise missiles and four 2000lb bunker busting bombs launched from six US ships.

British forces in northern Kuwait are currently on a chemical and biological alert, according to BBC correspondents.

BBC correspondent Tim Franks said this was believed to be the first suspected chemical or biological attack alert.

He said: "We heard a couple of thumps which might have been artillery and shouts of gas, gas, gas. We put respirators and gas masks on and ran to the nearest bunker and put on nuclear, chemical and biological weapons suits.




Troops told 'be just and strong'
Click here for full story
"There is no evidence that this is an attack. The army is erring of course on the side of caution."

Downing Street said Tony Blair had been alerted to the strikes on Baghdad just after midnight (GMT).

The prime minister and key ministers of the war cabinet met at Downing Street on Thursday morning and a full cabinet meeting is now taking place.

The Foreign Office has warned Britons around the world to be vigilant against terrorist attacks.

There is an "especially high risk" of indiscriminate terrorist attacks in public places on UK citizens, it warns.

Just before the war began, British troops were warned some might not make it home.

The warring parties have obligations under international law to avoid civilian casualties

Christian Aid, Cafod, Oxfam, Save the Children and Action Aid

"There may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign," said Lieutenant Colonel Tim Collins, commander of the 1st Battalion of the Royal Irish.

"We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow."

He urged troops to behave like liberators not conquerors, saying: "If you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory."

'Day of shame'

The beginning of war brought condemnation from several quarters.

Aid agencies urged the UK to take "all possible precautions" to avoid civilian casualties.

Our government should not have been a party to this conflict which has only undermined the United Nations, our own democracy and the rule of law

Iqbal Sacranie, Muslim Council of Britain


Click here for full story
Christian Aid, Cafod, Oxfam, Save the Children and Action Aid, also called for a "massive" increase in government funding to help with a possible humanitarian crisis.

The Muslim Council of Britain condemned the action, saying in a statement that it undermined the United Nations, democracy and the rule of law.

And the Stop the War Coalition called it a "day of shame" for Britain.

On Wednesday, US and British planes bombed for the first time long-range Iraqi artillery which threatened ground forces in the southern no-fly zone.

The MoD called the action "standard no-fly zone activity".
    

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PosterThread
Kay 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 11:25:16
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 1401
From: Norway



Saddam Hussein should be removed from power, no doubt about that. I'm not too convinced that this is the right way of doing it though, or indeed, if the US and Britain should have any say in it at all. I noticed a Norwegian weapons inspector on the front page of a newspaper yesterday, claiming that the US lied to the security council. But I guess it's hard to tell who's telling the truth and who's not. Right now I just hope this will end quickly and with minimal civilian losses.

Kay

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Mikey_C 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 11:37:51
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

Originally, I too felt that War against Iraq was the wrong way to go.

However, I watched Tony Blair`s speech in the British Parliment the other day and I must say that he changed my mind round on two key points.

1: The UN security council has become no more than a talking shop. When you give someone an ultimatum you must be prepared to follow it through otherwise you lose all credibility.

It`s like the old Robin Williams joke about the UK police. "Stop or I`ll say Stop again!"

2: If final warnings are not follwed up on, then countries like Iraq and most menacingly, North Korea, will just do what they want to do until it`s to late. As history has proved time and time again,(from Alexander the Great to Hitler) you cannot appease a dictator or a despot regime.

That`s my 5 pounds worth anyhow.


_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

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Rudei 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 12:32:48
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3578
From: Dallas, Texas

War in Iraq?

Shouldn`t the correct term be "Invasion" of Iraq?


_________________
Nissan GTR '08

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HMetal 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 13:05:15
#4 ]

Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 97
From: Canada

How about liberation and the road to freedom for Iraq. Give the Iraqi people control of their oil instead of fat cat Hussein and his sick, perverted, torturous sons.

I hope the "Coalition of the Willing" destroys Hussein and his regime so that the Iraqi people can be free to put into power the government THEY choose and freely deserve.


_________________
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed in this message are my own and not those of my employer.

--
Ray A. Akey (AKA HMetal) - Designer / Photographer
http://www.phofan.com - Photography Fan Community Forums

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Rudei 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 13:11:24
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3578
From: Dallas, Texas

Quote:
Give the Iraqi people control of their oil instead of fat cat Hussein and his sick, perverted, torturous sons


I wish that were true


_________________
Nissan GTR '08

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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 14:29:21
# ]



@Kay

>Saddam Hussein should be removed from power,

Agree

>I'm not too convinced that this is the right way of >doing it though

I'm firmly convinced this is the wrong way

>But I guess it's hard to tell who's telling the truth
>and who's not.

I know this much the US will say and do whatever it takes to do what they want

>Right now I just hope this will end quickly and with
> minimal civilian losses.

Same here. I'm against this war because it has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with oil and monetary power.

Why don't the US go against Saudi Arabia instead, home of many terrorists? Instead they keep selling them weapons.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 14:30:55
# ]



@HMETAL
>How about liberation and the road to freedom for
>Iraq. Give the Iraqi people control of their oil

That would be nice wouldn't it? Instead this would give access to the oil to the US oil companies. How unusual.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 14:33:21
# ]



@Mikey
>The UN security council has become no more than
>a talking shop. When you give someone an
>ultimatum you must be prepared to follow it
> through otherwise you lose all credibility.

And when you find no evidence you have to be willing to step back, the US instead want someone to blame at all costs (someone else's cost, there is)

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 14:54:38
# ]



Bush&Blair don't care civilian or iraq people

they care oil

 
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cyka 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 14:56:00
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Jan-2003
Posts: 486
From: Back in the dales

lets turn the volume down a notch ok?

I agree that war is bad, but in this case there is no other way around getting ride of saddam hussain.


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Loki1 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 15:13:37
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 153
From: Pensacola, Florida USA

I fermly believe that the United Nations is a useless org and should be dumped!

Any org that allows a single member to cancel the majority's will is a crock and worthless!

My 2 cents!

Loki


_________________
Amiga - Resistance used to be Futile!

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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 15:13:51
# ]



If you want to get latest then there rather good service from BBC, when something important happens the BBC will e-mail you an short news flash.

Conflict in Iraq updates

 
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Mikey_C 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 15:32:45
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

Quote:

And when you find no evidence you have to be willing to step back, the US instead want someone to blame at all costs (someone else's cost, there is)


Hey! Saddam is no angel ok? In the long run the world will be better off without him in charge. I am not entirely happy about this outcome, but once you have made an ultimatum, you have to follow through.

Bear in mind that Saddam has not proven that he has destroyed all of Iraq`s chemical and biological program - as ordered to do so after the last Gulf war.
(No, I am not convinced that he has any WOMD either)

However, the mere fact that they probably have the stuff to put into a missile or whatever, gives me the creeps.
- What will you say to the victims if that stuff gets on to the hands of terrorists and they let it off somewhere where it kills innocent people?

A line has to be drawn somewhere. I sincerely hope that after the war is over, pressure is put on all sides to finally settle the Palestinian issue once and for all. The united states cannot continue to veto resolutions against Israel and the Palestinian terrorists cannot continue to kill innocent people either. This also must come to an end.

BTW, Will someone please answe my one point, if the US and UK pull out their troops, what message will that send to Saddam and the North Koreans?
(who, in my opinion are far, far, more dangerous.)


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Messiah 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 18:25:19
#14 ]

Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 102
From: Unknown

I just think its hillarious to see the flagrant disregard for international law, on top of that the nerve of the people waging war wanting financial help to rebuild Iraq.

I do wonder if the people in favor of the war understands the implications of totaly sidestepping the legal framework, plus the kurd situation in the north and the Sunni Muslims wanting to join Iran.

Oh well I guess people wont complain when China invades Taiwan, Russia mops up the breakout republics and Arab states mow down Israelis left and right, not to mention the 100K+ willing terrirists wanting to kill and mame as many US/UK people as possible if any of the republican guard is still alive afterwards.

Happy times :(

Later

Jonas Gustavsson

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Messiah 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 18:31:59
#15 ]

Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 102
From: Unknown

Oh you mean the UN should be the US lapdog or something, in the UN there wasnt a majority in favor of military conflict, not even a majority of the permanent members in the security council was in favor of the US/UK/spanish proposal.

Or did you mean some other way??? :)

Later

Jonas Gustavsson

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unclecurio 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 18:56:29
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2003
Posts: 411
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

The US, The UK and Spain have more or less destroyed the credability of the UN. It will be very difficult for the organisation to hold sway in the future.

Has anyone else noticed the coalition of the willing seems to contain a number of nations in no position to offer any real assistance? Looks like a token list to feign international approval.

Remember kids - Careless Wars Cost Lives


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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 19:08:53
# ]



all i can think about in such times, is all the innocent people getting killed just because they happen to be born in Iraq.

Woman, children, man... families destroyed, lives destroyed, children without parents, parents without children.... and all they can do is sit back, wait and hope...

NOBODY deserves to die that way. It is unbelievable for me.

And to all those who say that this war is justified, maybe you too should think for a moment about this. Imagine it being your country, your family, friends, the ones you love...

Besides that, there was no reason for this war, no evidence at all to justify.

It's a matter of power and oil, nothing more and nothing less.

Yes, Saddam had to go...but as said, this is no the purpose of this war.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 20:16:21
# ]



@Mikey_C
>Saddam is no angel ok? In the long run the world
>will be better off without him in charge.

I surely agree on that, what I don't agree on is the modality of getting rid of him. The US likes to play Judge and Jury and that's something I'm strongly opposed to. Enough of this mentality "we're better than the rest of the world and we are above the laws"

>Bear in mind that Saddam has not proven that he
>has destroyed all of Iraq`s chemical and biological
>program

Just like the inspectors have not proven the opposite

>What will you say to the victims if that stuff gets on
>to the hands of terrorists and they let it off
>somewhere where it kills innocent people?

What will you say to the families of the innocent people in Iraq?

>A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Unfortunately this war is not about drawing a line, but about commercial interests. Do you know that the US government earns quite a few billions of dollars for each war fought?

I have a question that no american has been able to answer yet:
If the war in Iraq is about terrorism why fight Iraq and not Saudi Arabia which is the homeland of many more terrorists? Instead the US keeps selling weapons to S.A.

Terroris? American should step back and ask themselves why so many people are against the US.
What role is it playing in international politics. Why are these terrorists not against Canada for example, or Australia, etc.?

>BTW, Will someone please answe my one point, if
>the US and UK pull out their troops, what message
>will that send to Saddam and the North Koreans?

So you're saying that after Iraq we should go against North Korea? So only the US and UK should be allowed to carry weapons of mass destructions? Should I remind you that it's the US the country that started the armament rush and the only country who used weapons of mass destructions against civilians?

The point sent would be that the US if finally learning to mind its own business.

 
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Kay 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 20:45:20
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 1401
From: Norway

>I do wonder if the people in favor of the war understands the implications of totaly
> sidestepping the legal framework, plus the kurd situation in the north and the Sunni Muslims
> wanting to join Iran.

Yes, this is the issue which worries me most in the long term. What is the value of a law which is not equally applied to all? If the US can ignore the security council, why should anyone else be bound by its decisions? Similar issues have worried me earlier too, when thinking about the international war tribunal after WW2: Who stood trial for the genocides at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Whatever one might say about the reasons, and the alternative scenarios (for yes, there are a lot of people who will try to justify the evaporation of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians), this was mass genocide committed by the allies. But the allies won the war, so they avoided prosecution.

I like the concept of international law. The coalition against Iraq no longer supports it. I fear the long-term consequences.

Kay

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deakmann 
Re: Iraq, the situation
Posted on 20-Mar-2003 21:08:22
#20 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 358
From: Unknown

I can't beleive the naviety of the "peace at any costs" brigade. If they had had there way over
Nato's intervention in the Balkans the wars there
would still be raging.
The UN passed dozens of ineffectual resolutions
the EU sent peacekeepers and negociators all without effect, only swift and effective action
from NATO in Bosnia and Kosovo bought that terrible war to an end.
In many ways Iraq is the same the UN has failed to acheive the terms of the ceasefire at the end of the last war. Iraq still pocesses chemical weapons , the Kurds and Shia Moslems(the majority of the population of Iraq) are still bitterly oppressed.
Maybe the links between Iraq and AlQadir are somewhat tenous but at the end of the day it only takes one Iraqi offical sympathetic to AlQadir to give them one weapon and tens of thousands in London,New York, Paris Frankfurt , Rome or any other western city could die.

To those who say this war is only about oil please check your facts. Iraq accounts for only about 3% of world oil production, even with 10 years of massive investment this figure would perhaps get upto 7 or 8%. Guess which countries have already done deals with the current Iraqi govt (yes Russia and France).

To those that argue that Britain and the US armed Iraq, this is a myth , the vast majority of Iraqs
forces were supplied by, yep good old Russia and France.

Yes it's sad that the US and UK have had to bypass the UN , but it's got to be said the UN hasn't got a great track record , and every time there is a real world emergency , who do they call on , yep the USA.

To the guy that asked why we don't attack Saudi Arabi , well surely the answer is obvious, the Saudi regime pose no threat to us whatsoever. Yes a few of there citizens are terrorists, but this can be said of many freindly countries, and the Saudi govt are woking with the west to track them down.


Let's hope the wars over quickly, the Iraqi people liberated and our own world made a bit safer, and in the long run a lot of lives saved.

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