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News   News : Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
   posted by MikeB on 31-Aug-2003 20:25:52 (2787 reads)
Amiga.org's senior webmaster Kees Witteveen has interviewed Ben Hermans of Hyperion regarding the development AmigaOS4.
    

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BrianHoskins 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 31-Aug-2003 21:29:17
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2003
Posts: 726
From: South Wales, UK

Interesting. The part where he commented on the potential difficulties of future multi-user support raised an eyebrow for me, and I was also pleased to hear that there was good support amoungst users for the BPPC version of OS4. I don't intend to stay on my classic system for OS4, but regardless of that I am in love with my classic system and would want OS4 to run on it :D

All in all, an interesting read. I did tend to get the feeling we would be waiting even LONGER than we already expected for OS4 (if even only slightly longer) but I do share Ben's opinion that better to pay the price of a little bit more waiting and release a quality product than rush out an "almost working" version of OS4 which would be sure to do nothing more than demorolize Amiga users across the globe and effectively waste 2 years of work on OS4. A quality product is definately required and I can't wait for it's delivery!

Come on "Four-Point-Oh"

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ikir 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 31-Aug-2003 22:45:10
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5646
From: Italy

Nice interview, i hope to play with OS4 soon.


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ssolie 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 31-Aug-2003 22:51:26
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2747
From: Alberta, Canada

Quote:
All in all, an interesting read. I did tend to get the feeling we would be waiting even LONGER than we already expected for OS4 (if even only slightly longer) but I do share Ben's opinion that better to pay the price of a little bit more waiting and release a quality product than rush out an "almost working" version of OS4 which would be sure to do nothing more than demorolize Amiga users across the globe and effectively waste 2 years of work on OS4.


I'm a believer in the "You can't test in quality." idea. Quality is either there or it isn't when a component reaches integration. That means culling features that just aren't up to par. I sincerely hope Ben and friends are willing to give up some features for an earlier release date if required. For example, I could live without Petunia and InstallerNG if it meant seeing OS4 on my AmigaOne before the end of year.


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unclecurio 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 31-Aug-2003 22:53:28
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2003
Posts: 411
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Yep, an interesting read. I'm quite excited about the potential for a complete overhaul of the graphics system - hope to see something really kick-ass in this area given the Amiga's graphics heritage

Oh yeah, and I get to use one of the new smilies!


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AmigaHeretic 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 31-Aug-2003 22:58:12
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

Great interview.

One thing I always appreciate about Ben is that he gives good direct answers. He doesn't muddy things up or avoid answering by going off on some tangent about something else.

Thanks Ben. Per the Hyperion thread, You Guys Rock!!!


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BrianHoskins 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 31-Aug-2003 23:54:49
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2003
Posts: 726
From: South Wales, UK

Quote:
I'm a believer in the "You can't test in quality." idea. Quality is either there or it isn't when a component reaches integration. That means culling features that just aren't up to par. I sincerely hope Ben and friends are willing to give up some features for an earlier release date if required. For example, I could live without Petunia and InstallerNG if it meant seeing OS4 on my AmigaOne before the end of year.



Well... I think the things you're mentioning there are "easy" things that if aren't already completed in OS4 wont take long to do anyway. I'm thinking more of the serious functionality of OS4. Like for example, it's quite generally accepted that MOS1.3 was VERY buggy and while it is called a betaOS... apparently it was so buggy that it wasn't really even usable for a proper day to day machine. I don't like this way of doing things. I expect OS4 to be released with certain bugs, that is the very nature of software development itself... but I would much rather wait for a professional product where everything works than have Hyperion rush the product out of the door after ALL this time spent on professional work only to find certain aspects of the OS are a let down.

2 years is a long time for us to have had to wait. I think a quality product will HAVE to be released now, to justify that wait.

I see what you're saying though - Im as impatient as you are in this respect. It's tough waiting, especially if you've already put your money where your mouth is and bought the A1! I can understand that.

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Anonymous 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 8:38:46
# ]



You can't test in quality only because the premise is flawed.

Testing exposes coding and design defects that the developer/support team fixes, improving the quality of the component.

Show me someone who claims to write perfect code and never needs to test it before he releases it and I will show you a liar.

A compiler contains a tester, which looks for syntactical errors and some static analysis for typical errors ( assignment/checking ).

Simply trying to run something ( or test code if its a function library ) tests something.

Executing a formal test planl also tests something.

Gating quality ready for integrating components is a project management issue. You *can* test quality into products ( if we change what we mean by the premise to the test/fix cycle ) because that is precisely what all large companies do because you have to accept the human mind is finite and humans rarely come up with algorithms that cater for every case.

 
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Rogue 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 11:20:03
#8 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
'm a believer in the "You can't test in quality." idea. Quality is either there or it isn't when a component reaches integration.


There are things like the installation routine that needs to be bullet proof. Also, we want to be sure that compatibility is adequate, therefore we try to test with a lot of programs.

The big issue is that once the thing is out, you cannot change much. Therefore it is better to see that everything works out before you actually release the beast.

Like Ben said, it's been two years in the making now, and shouldn't be rushed. I am very confident that you will get at least a stable beta version for your AmigaOne before this year is over.


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Crumb 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 11:25:27
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

I wouldn't mind if InstallerNG was not included at all. I don't like it... it crashes too much IMHO


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reflect 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 12:55:22
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 359
From: Gothenburg, Sweden

Well, I seriously don't think they'll grab the aminet version and chuck it in there alongside the rest of OS4, I have a slight feeling they'll improve it and make it stable, first ;)


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Rassilon 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 13:00:08
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

@Rogue

I didn't want to put words in your mouth, so wondered if you could clarify your last statement:
Quote:
I am very confident that you will get at least a stable beta version for your AmigaOne before this year is over.

Does this mean:

This beta version will be available for A1 owners to test or that there will be stable beta version in existance.

I appreciate that you have put 'at the least' as I guess that means you are hoping for something more!

Cheers

Rassilon


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Rogue 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 15:13:50
#12 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
This beta version will be available for A1 owners to test or that there will be stable beta version in existance.


It is quite obvious that the only people able to betatest an AmigaOS 4 for AmigaOne are AmigaOne owners

I can't say if this is going to be all of them, or restricted to a group...

Quote:
I appreciate that you have put 'at the least' as I guess that means you are hoping for something more!


There's always hoping. The general rule is still " ", though...


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ssolie 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 17:50:55
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2747
From: Alberta, Canada

Quote:
You can't test in quality only because the premise is flawed...


I'm referring more to the deadly and unpredictable test-fix cycle near the end of a large project which is where I think OS4 is at.

I was hoping to stir up a conversation about cutting out non-essential functionality in order to release OS4 sooner. I know I'm one customer who wouldn't mind deferring a few features to the next release or so if it means getting a higher quality product out sooner. But like Rogue was saying, there is a balance to be struck especially when you're talking about an OS. Do too little and 3rd parties will start to fill in the gaps (e.g. AHI and MUI).


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MikeB 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 20:40:46
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

Well done Ben and Kees. Keep them coming.

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realize 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 1-Sep-2003 23:59:23
#15 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: nyc

Allright Ben and Hyperion

Keep it up guys! I've got my 4000T ppc DYING for OS4. Seems like you are close. Cant wait to have retail box of OS4 in my studio on display!


@Brian Hoskins

I can tell you that saying MOS 1.3 was so beta that it wasnt usable day to day is utter BS. I ran 1.3 on my Peg for DAYS ON END TOTALLY STABLE, unlike my 3.9 4000t that was buggy with new programs. MorphOs has come along quite nicely.
I'm sure OS4 will do the Amiga Legacy justice.
I'm so tired of blue and red fanboys spreading fud
magnetic

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Robert 
Re: Second AO interview with Ben Hermans
Posted on 3-Sep-2003 20:45:53
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 873
From: Glasgow

@realize:

I have to agree with you. I just upgraded to MOS 1.4 on this pegasos
and I managed to crash it tonight. This is the only crash I've had
since I got the machine and I was clicking about like mad when it
happened.
I have to say, MorphOS is a joy to use.

@ Rogue and everyone else at Hyperion:

Keep up the good work. My A1 is sitting in a cardboard box behind me,
waiting on OS4.
Linux was just hassle and since the Pegasos arrived I've been trying
Morphos. I've been impressed enough so far to not want to set up the
A1 again. I have a feeling it'll sit there until OS4 is available.

All the best,


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