Wow Impressive!

Does that mean OS4 has caught up with the OpenGL support on macOS (stuck on version 2 forever)?

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@BigD

Ehm macOS is stuck forever at OpenGL version 4.1 then they started to promote and use their proprietary next gen Metal API similar to Vulkan/DirectX 12.

Ok, we have a bit of a way to go then. Metal is proving usekess in enticing the big developers to furthet support the Mac and Starcraft 2 only uses OpenGL 2.1 on my machine unless I upgrade to at least macOS Sierra!

The Amiga NG could easily catch them up now though having enough users to be a viable games platform will always be an issue! 😪

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

Ok, we have a bit of a way to go then. Metal is proving useless in enticing the big developers to further support the Mac and Starcraft 2 only uses OpenGL 2.1 on my machine unless I upgrade to at least macOS Sierra!

The Amiga NG could easily catch them up now, though having enough users to be a viable games platform will always be an issue! 😪

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

Double post sorry. Was trying to correct typos!

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Why cannot be implemented Ogl2 directly on top of warp3dnova?

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@Fransexy

It can of course, same as opengl3, 4 or anything else. Its even can be possible to "just" port mesa and be done with it, but no one do it.

Reasson why we have ogles2.library, its because its much easier to implement. There no fixedpipeline, etc. No need to write lot of boring and hard code.

So while there wasnt any developer willing to made proper opengl over nova, Daniel at least agree to made ogles2.library.

But yeah, if it was full opengl, there wasnt needs for such wrappers

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Great work all invovled!

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better & better thanks to Hans, Daniel and all others involved !

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Quote:

Metal is proving useless in enticing the big developers to further support the Mac and Starcraft 2 only uses OpenGL 2.1 on my machine unless I upgrade to at least macOS Sierra!

While Apple has definitely been promoting Metal, and going as far as deprecating OpenGL, there's a question, whether they will actually ever remove it. At least it's clear, that no support for newer versions (well, GL side hasn't been updated in ages anyway)

NOTE: At least I cannot see any "technical" reason to remove OpenGL; currently, Metal and OpenGL work nicely - so can't see why it couldn't work the same way in the future. I'd say the entire thing is 100% political.

Many Apple apologists falsely claim, that "everyone is using engines like Unity anyway", and that's true - it won't affect anyone using "big enough" engine. In worst case, big companies have enough manpower to add Metal backend to their own code.

So, in short, it will only affect small developers, that don't use any bigger mainstream 3D engines.

Oh, if you think this is only a minor thing, also rememer iOS.

As for the thread topic, even if it's mostly relevant to developers (and they likely already know it), OpenGL ES stands for "Embedded Systems", and is a version of OpenGL with a LOT of functionality removed (Mostly "worse ways to do more or less same thing", like immediate mode, display lists...) with aim being to keep the API as small as possible, but functional.

OpenGL ES1 has fixed function pipeline, but no shaders.
OpenGL ES2 has only shaders, no fixed function pipeline at all.

When it comes to drawing stuff on screen, there's very little in common between the two. AFAIK, only draw functionality that's 100% same with both, is screen clearing.

OpenGL ES1 is made for more "simple" hardware, and OpenGL ES2 has WAY more control on how you actually draw stuff. The downside is, it's also more complicated, especially for inexperienced users. It also needs "newer" hardware (note: this "newer" was over decade ago)

As for "desktop games", they usually use either fixed function or shaders, rarely both (but that's possible). So (as a developer) based on a game, you pick which one to use accordingly.

While OpenGL ES1 might sound "outdated" -and it is-, but there's definitely need for it, since there's LOTS of old OpenGL code only using fixed function pipeline, and porting them to use shader instead (GLES2) would need major code modifications.

(Of course these are not the only OpenGL solutions around)

Quote:

Metal is proving useless in enticing the big developers to further support the Mac and Starcraft 2 only uses OpenGL 2.1 on my machine unless I upgrade to at least macOS Sierra!

While Apple has definitely been promoting Metal, and going as far as deprecating OpenGL, there's a question, whether they will actually ever remove it. At least it's clear, that no support for newer versions (well, GL side hasn't been updated in ages anyway)

NOTE: At least I cannot see any "technical" reason to remove OpenGL; currently, Metal and OpenGL work nicely side by side - so can't see why it couldn't work the same way in the future. I'd say the entire thing is 100% political.

Many Apple apologists falsely claim, that "everyone is using engines like Unity anyway", and that's true - it won't affect anyone using "big enough" engine. In worst case, big companies have enough manpower to add Metal backend to their own code.

So, in short, it will only affect small developers, that don't use any bigger mainstream 3D engines.

Oh, if you think this is only a minor thing, also rememer iOS.

As for the thread topic, even if it's mostly relevant to developers (and they likely already know it), OpenGL ES stands for "Embedded Systems", and is a version of OpenGL with a LOT of functionality removed (Mostly "worse ways to do more or less same thing", like immediate mode, display lists...) with aim being to keep the API as small as possible, but functional.

OpenGL ES1 has fixed function pipeline, but no shaders.
OpenGL ES2 has only shaders, no fixed function pipeline at all.

When it comes to drawing stuff on screen, there's very little in common between the two. AFAIK, only draw functionality that's 100% same with both, is screen clearing.

OpenGL ES1 is made for more "simple" hardware, and OpenGL ES2 has WAY more control on how you actually draw stuff. The downside is, it's also more complicated, especially for inexperienced users. It also needs "newer" hardware (note: this "newer" was over decade ago)

As for "desktop games", they usually use either fixed function or shaders, rarely both (but that's possible). So (as a developer) based on a game, you pick which one to use accordingly.

While OpenGL ES1 might sound "outdated" -and it is-, but there's definitely need for it, since there's LOTS of old OpenGL code only using fixed function pipeline, and porting them to use shader instead (GLES2) would need major code modifications.

(Of course these are not the only OpenGL solutions around)

@Jupp3
Quote:

since there's LOTS of old OpenGL code only using fixed function pipeline, and porting them to use shader instead (GLES2) would need major code modifications.

And that why we have that GL4ES : you don't need to do any major code modification. You just port a game which use opengl 1.x , 2.x and even a bit of 3.x over GL4ES like you do it for pure OpenGL. You do no code modification in the game, everything do for you GL4ES which made all necessary shaders and stuff, so to use ogles2.library with all this complication things. And that SDK is what is for : you only change linking flags and includes to make it all be the same simple as if it was real opengl 1.x/2.x/3.x

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Ah, and forget to note, that there is of course plan by GL4ES author to make full OpenGL 3.X support by usage the same OpenGLES2. So theoretically if all will go well, we will have full OpenGL3.x support too, which is kind of close to realms.

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