Hello folks. Hope you are doing just fine. I am ready definitely before Christmas to get myself a brand new Amiga-system that will run AmigaOS 4.1. I hope to be sure about October, possibly but 100% certainly before Christmas. That is the best answer i can get...

I am getting very interested in Amiga music again, and seeing several Amiga-musicans using OctaMED SoundStudio and Yamaha XG MIDI-modules, i need to ask some questions about what experiences such music creation give you people..

1. Can the MIDI-sounds be handled in the same way as Samples in the tracker, and is it possible to use the special effect commands for them as when using samples?

2. Is the MIDI-sounds of the Yamaha XG modules better to use than samples from an Amiga soundcard/onboard-soundchip, and how is Yamaha XG better?

3. What is needed to make such MIDI music listenable as normal instrumental music for MP3s and CDs/DVDs-recording? Is there some additional works that must be done?

Just want to know how all these will do under AmigaOS 4.1

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@HKvalhe


Hi,

Iv'e got a Yamaha XG hardwired to my A4000 motherboard, works fine. (using OS3.9).

It's hard work using Sound studio to get any decent midi playback; but then
I'm not a musicain.

I use a app called MidiPlay to play them midi files and it plays them perfectly.

Midiplay is unstable on OS4, works/crash/works etc.


Wol.

_________________
It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.~Albert Einstein

Does OctaMED Sound Studio nowadays support MIDI, if it's not via serial MIDI adapter plugged to the serial port of a Classic Amiga? Back when I used it a lot, it worked only with the onboard serial, and it wasn't even possible to use it on my A2232 serial card... Luckily my graphics tablet worked on A2232 (it doesn't on HyperCOM 3 due to serious design flaw) so at least there was no need for constant cable swapping

@Jupp3

Yes, OctaMED SoundStudio supports MIDI. All OctaMEDs have.

Just wondering how these would work..

@All

I know about MIDIPlay. I merely mentioned music creation with MIDI in SoundStudio.

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

Doesn't OctaMED's midi support bang the CIA hardware?

_________________
Doing stupid things for fun...

@Karlos

It might, but then again why use the CIA hardware? There are different libraries for OctaMED SoundStudio that should allow the tools you use to be more compatible with it, AFAIK..

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@HKvalhe

Quote:

It might, but then again why use the CIA hardware?

You should have told that to the original OctaMED coder when he was writing it many years ago...

As for "why":
-It's faster than using any other solution (timing is very important for MIDI and 7MHz isn't really that much...)
-Every Amiga has CIA anyway

Both of which can be disputed.
Quote:

There are different libraries for OctaMED SoundStudio that should allow the tools you use to be more compatible with it, AFAIK..

And unless support for them is added to OctaMED, it's as good as if they didn't exist.

Note: I don't know the current status of SS, but the version I used on my A1200 (that came on CU Amiga cover disk) most certainly didn't support any other midi input except serial midi adapter in onboard serial connector, and AHI support was missing aswell (but some sound cards were directly supported, and I think someone wrote a Toccata(?) library, that redirects audio to AHI)

@HKvalhe

Helgis,

You should understand that XG is just an extension of the General MIDI standard - nothing more, nothing less. It specifies how sounds are organized, not how they actually sound: the quality of XG modules varies greatly depending on module price. Cheap ones will sound cheap, expensive ones (like the Yamaha Motif Rack) will sound better.

The choice of instrument depends on the kind of music you make. If you, for instance, want to make electronic music, you better stay away from XG! Get a virtual analogue synth like the Waldorf Blofeld instead.

On the other hand, if you just want to play GM/XG tunes downloaded from the net, or if you want to sound like a bar band, you'll be fine with even a cheap XG module.

Also note that today, professional music is rarely made using MIDI only. Rather, sound from MIDI hardware is recorded (in 24 bit) and mixed in a multitrack editor, adding effects and using various other production techniques. Plus, mastering is done as a final step in production, to make it sound like the music you know from CDs/DVDs.

In other words, "professional music" and "Amiga" do not go together.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

Exactly ;)

However if Helgis wants to use midi and wants the best amiga soft for this then its HD-Rec. Its not a tracker but uses notation like in cubase. I like more trackers but use hd-rec on os4.

EDIT:
Helgis you can try hd-rec under winuae too so you know how it feels. Doesnt need any HW synthesizer. it has a softplugin, effects and you can use samples in it.

Last edited by Kicko on 02-Sep-2009 at 07:39 PM.

@All

I understand that doing music on Amiga is not the same anymore as before, but that shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I will try out different things. Thank you.

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@Jupp3

Quote:

Note: I don't know the current status of SS, but the version I used on my A1200 (that came on CU Amiga cover disk) most certainly didn't support any other midi input except serial midi adapter in onboard serial connector, and AHI support was missing aswell (but some sound cards were directly supported, and I think someone wrote a Toccata(?) library, that redirects audio to AHI)

The status is that the maintainer of Bars 'n Pipes, Alfred J. Faust, has taken over the Soundstudio project sometime ago. He wants to add the same midi support as he did with bars n pipes, so it doesn't depend on hardware banging anymore.

If you wanna have AHI support for SS, try "The Maestrix".

x303

@x303

Exactly! I tried TheMaestrix with OSS 1.03c when i owned a 1Ghz A1G4XE with Pre4 OS4.0 and made some great tunes under my old nick Helgis, at Aminet. Althought, most of them in a demo-stage, but hey they are fine listening!

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@Kicko

Will certainly do. Thanks for the tips anyway.

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@HKvalhe

By the way, if you are after some home-studio MIDI hardware that

- is cheap
- expandable
- straightforward to use
- provides good sound
- gives you an XG soundset
- does not limit you to XG

then google for the Kenton Plugstation and Yamaha PLG expansion cards. This way, you can have a single piece of MIDI hardware containing up to four different synths or modules, on cards. There is an analogue synth card, a DX synthesis card, an XG module card, a drum module card etc. Very easy to operate even using Amiga software (I tried it with the Horny sequencer), and the sound is definitely good.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

I'm certain that one should not be limited to only XG or Amiga samples, but more. Yes, i will try different things for sure.

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@HKvalhe

And don't forget to get mssiah either

Really nice (and affordable for such custom & low volume) piece of hard / software imho

@Jupp3

Quite a smart little thing this box. Amazing stuff.

_________________
Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

Yeah, nice topic.
Now my point of view.
First im must say, I only use Amiga with Midi and Yamaha gear, in the past and now under OS4.1.
The XG thing is not as bad as it sounds first, mostly the sounds will fit to 80% of your sound needs when you do music, course for any type of music something fits, and if not, layer a few together with some filters and FX then
got what you need. For the rest you will need some kind of special synth with an own special sound, a sampler is allso great as addition when you got old monotimbral gear, you could sample them and got even more sounds.
As tip for you, search for an Yamaha CS6X. It has very good sounds, which can be layered and manipulated with analoug and digital filters. Allso it has a Sampler on board, 4mb standard but can be expanded to 64mb ram with PS2 Ram.
Expanding with plugin cards is allso nice, you could put 2 plugin boards in it for analoug, xg, dx7 or even more sound fx into it. I got an CS6R which is the rack version, it is the same, what I can say is, they are cheap, sounding good with 24bit sounds, and backup sounds is allso nice course it uses smart media cards, which can allso be used to load samples or whatever.
But without expanding it, it is more a synth for trance, Techno, electro and allso Hip Hop stuff, course the sounds are very analoug. I do not use Plugin Cards cards for myself in it. course I got any Yamaha synth which allso exists an plugin board for, but on the CS6r xou can edit plugin boards over the internal menu, so no need for special software where you need a PC for.
Ckeck out some reports on www.vintagesynth.org, or leech the manual at yamaha or watch youtube for a sound demo ;))

now downside, midi under OS4.1 is #### at the moment, Bars N Pipes will not work course it has to be recompiled and bugfreed, Alfred means it has to do with some memory management under OS4.1, in Bars N pipes most Tools crash, and onscreen fonts are missing, so only Sequencer is horny at the moment, but it is not deleoped further any more, it crashes often, and it misses some standard midi implementation such as Midi Clock syncronising which makes it unuseable, course you need to sync your synth, or your LFO and FX will run out of sync to each other piece of gear. HDRecord is looking primising, but allso lacks of Midi Clock, and it cannot use so many Midi channels so you will run out of channels even with only piece of hardware ;) But it runs good on SAM and even for an 68k Sequencer it seems quick even on an SAM 667. But in general the most importend, bulkdumping Sysex over USB Midi is broken, so you cannot backup or load sounds over Midi cable to your synth, this nerves and it seems Dave Hassle has no time at the moment to fix it somehow.
So we got only 3 alternatives, BnP when it works well under OS4.1, HDRec when it got Midi Clock syncronising and more channels, and OctamedSS but Alfred works on it, but as far as I know, it got working Midi clock, hope Alfred will expand it so more outputs are working with Midi Clock, allso would be nice for BnP, multible output syncronising. Then the world is fine again ;)) A yes, I use a PC for sysex backups at the moment over a second Midi Usb Device.. had no other chance, I hate PC ;))

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: Does OctaMED Sound Studio nowadays support MIDI, if it's not via serial MIDI adapter plugged to the serial port of a Classic Amiga? Back when I used it a lot, it worked only with the onboard serial, and it wasn't even possible to use it on my A2232 serial card...

That's not surprising, for MIDI protocol you need a serial card with a non standard baud rate it could not be generated by a standard PC UART, but it could be generated by Paula.

There are some confusing facts about Midi:
- some think Midi is just the possibility to play standard midi files, like they are used on WWW pages ore as ring-tones.
- some think Midi is just the posibility to play standard Midi instruments on their soundcards ( that's how the term Midi was used on some PC soundcards )
- some people think about the possibillity to connect Midi periphery like synthesizers, samplers, sequencers and keyboards.


What Midi doesn't:
Midi is not a sound-card it will not play Amiga MODs over a connected synthesizer.

Last edited by Arko on 05-Sep-2009 at 09:22 PM.
Last edited by Arko on 05-Sep-2009 at 09:22 PM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Psycreator

Dunno if it works under os4.x, but why not give camouflage a try. For me this is the best music program, something like cubase, that supports sysex dumps very well. Shame it's not very well known and not supported anymore. I really hope this program gets developed further someday under GPL.

x303