Please see post 31

New hardware is simply better than classic amigas, but it misses one major thing - OCS/ECS/AGA chipset and thus compatibility too.
I don't cry for remanufacture of old chipset or dirty hacks, I mean another form of emulation.
In OS4, there is Prefs/Compatibility, where one can choose between JIT and interpretive emulator. It would be very cool add there one more option: EAE (E-UAE). It would be the simplest way for user - no scripts needed, no performance lose (uae is working only when needed).
I'm not a programer. I don't know, how difficult would be to implement this. But I mean, that this could be a path to the full compatibility.
Your opinions?

Edit: Appicon idea
Edit: Appicon idea - progress
Edit: Appicon idea - installer
Edit: Appicon idea - public demoversion
Edit: Appicon idea - bugfix
Edit: Appicon idea - new version with install script

Last edited by pavlor on 07-Jan-2008 at 12:49 PM.
Last edited by pavlor on 29-Mar-2007 at 06:07 PM.
Last edited by pavlor on 04-Mar-2007 at 09:21 AM.
Last edited by pavlor on 22-Feb-2007 at 09:06 PM.
Last edited by pavlor on 03-Feb-2007 at 11:49 AM.
Last edited by pavlor on 26-Jan-2007 at 10:43 AM.

@pavlor

Had a look at http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=emulation/utility/gluae-main.lha

?

edited to add, ooh! 1000 post! That means I'm not a cult :(

Last edited by Stephen_Robinson on 20-Jan-2007 at 05:51 PM.

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@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:

ooh! 1000 post!

That's what you get when not applying selfrestrictions. Congrats anyways!

OldFart

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@Stephen_Robinson

Yes, I know, but I mean another thing. Why not use the same mechanismus that is used for the choosing between JIT and interpretive emulation for summoning UAE. Simply drag the icon of some game to compatibility editor, choose version of emulated computer and play.

@pavlor

Dunno, since no ones done it for Windows, and think how advanced WinUAE is, that's probably where it would be done first, PPC/i386 or whatever...

I only use very system friendly iBrowse as a 68k Native these days, what actual software were you thinking of? I'm just thinking that 68k software is rather old these days, and how much time would it take to start up e-uae and jst play whatever game?

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@Stephen_Robinson

It is question of style and dignity of course. For example, I have Ambermoon on my harddrive, it isn't very difficult to run UAE and start the game in emulated WB or to make script that will start it automatically. But I mean, that simpe doubleclick on the original icon is superior. If OS4 can mark some application to be run with interpretive emulation, why not use the same way to call in an external emulator.

@pavlor

Quote:

If OS4 can mark some application to be run with interpretive emulation, why not use the same way to call in an external emulator.

You used the word "external" and this is IMHO enough to explain it.
You want a prefs editor to configure an external program, then ask the
authors of that external program for it.

The Compatibility prefs editor cant be used for that, it can only be used
for OS4 internal purposes, the prefs file created with it is *not* used
to decide how to start a program. Its used to decide how to interpret
68k code when it is already loaded and any task or process jumps into that
code. AFAIK UAE cant be told to emulate an A500 plus OS3.1 for a piece
of loaded 68k code which is somewhere in the memory of the host machine

I will try precise my idea

How the mechanismus could work?

1) User doubleclicks on an icon (for example AbandonedPlaces whdload icon)
2) OS4 knows that this game is on UAE-blacklist
3) OS4 does:
assign Pavlor: ""
;(place, where is the application located)
4) OS4 make textfile T:pavlor-command

-------
In pavlor-command is writen:

C:pavlorapp "name of the icon" ;(pavlorapp is the command that should simulate an doubleclick on the icon in WB - I think, it is needed for whdload)
-------

5) OS4 runs E-UAE
UAE:uae -f pavlor.uaerc

-------
In pavlor.uaerc, there are specified emulated harddisks:
DH0: - plain WB3.1 with pavlorapp (and optionally with other needed commands like whdload) in C

;DH0:s/startup-sequence is modified:
;instead of C:loadwb, there is
;
;if exists DH2:pavlor-command
; execute DH2:pavlor-command
; else
; loadwb
;endif

DH1: - Pavlor: (directory of the game)
DH2: - T:
--------

6) now all continues automatically
DH0:s/startup-sequence is executed
startup-sequence executes DH2:pavlor-command
pavlor-command runs the game
user can play!

Now somebody should create pavlorapp and OS4 developers make the OS4 part and all will work fine
That is what I had in mind.

@pavlor

Quote:

I will try precise my idea How the mechanismus could work? 1) User doubleclicks on an icon (for example AbandonedPlaces whdload icon) 2) OS4 knows that this game is on UAE-blacklist 3) OS4 does: assign Pavlor: ""

You did not understand my reply. Here it is again:
Quote:

The Compatibility prefs editor cant be used for that, it can only be used for OS4 internal purposes, the prefs file created with it is *not* used to decide how to start a program. Its used to decide how to interpret 68k code when it is already loaded and any task or process jumps into that code.

Your idea implies that OS4 uses the prefs file to decide how to start
a program. As already written, thats a false assumption.

@TetiSoft

Is the OS4 able to prevent specific apps from runing? If yes, then why not use mechanism described above (post 8) for those apps?

Thanks for patience

@pavlor

Quote:

Is the OS4 able to prevent specific apps from runing?

Yes.
Quote:

If yes, then why not use mechanism described above (post 8) for those apps?

As already written, when the Compatibility prefs file contents come into
play, the program is already loaded. As already written, UAE is an external
application, not part of OS4, as already written, its IMHO unable to emulate
a classic Amiga plus a classic OS for an already loaded piece of 68k code
located somewhere in the memory of the host machine.

OS4 has the options to deny execution of the already loaded code and to ask
the user if he really wants to run it. When UAE would be part of OS4 and would
be able to emulate[...] then adding the option to use UAE for the already
loaded code would make sense. Otherwise it doesnt make sense.

You should not install programs on the A1 version of OS4 which require
classic hardware to be present. Install those programs on the classic
version of OS4 or on UAE. OS4 is an OS alone, not a GUI kit for external
emulators.

@pavlor

I think I understand where you're heading...

Since OS4 can execute 68k code already, E-UAE is only needed
for hardware banging stuff. Perhaps a UAE-author can separate
the emulated chipsets in UAE from its 68k-code-execution routines
and release a Chipset-Emulation (like NallePuh?) application for OS4.

Then, OS4 would (seamlessly) run the 68k software like any other
68k application and the chipset-emulator (hack) would intercept the
necessary hardware calls.

Is that what you mean? That sounds cool.

Edit: and potentially less work for the maintainers of the E-UEAE for
Classsic and OS4 PPC Amigas.

Nathan

Last edited by NathanH on 21-Jan-2007 at 05:55 PM.

The OS4 part (post 8) could be done by an AppIcon. As I worte, I'm not a programer. Is there any program for the creation of appicons? It must support multiple commands.

The Emulation part is done already (wbstart.library + RumfromWB command).

Thanks for help

@all

From what I gather, Pavlor is suggesting nothing more than an option to have an external application launch any 68k app that is on another blacklist.

I agree, perhaps OS4 shouldn't have specific options for UAE, but there would be nothing wrong in having a configurable "launch 68k apps inside another application using the following arguments" etc...

Or as someone suggested perhaps the UAE people/person could do a cludgy patch to intercept, but I agree with Pavlor it could (or perhaps should) be an OS4 option.

Pingu

@CptPingu

Quote:

From what I gather, Pavlor is suggesting nothing more than an option to have an external application launch any 68k app that is on another blacklist.

This basically means keeping a central repository of the to-be-UAEed applications instead of having per-application settings/scripts/whatever. The amount of work would be more or less the same, only that this requires the OS to have a specific mechanism for a specific external application, which would be a design mistake (TetiSoft already explained this very well).

Quote:

I agree, perhaps OS4 shouldn't have specific options for UAE, but there would be nothing wrong in having a configurable "launch 68k apps inside another application using the following arguments" etc...

As somebody else kindly indicated already, such a "launcher" already exists: it's called glUAE

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 26-Jan-2007 at 02:39 PM.

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@TetiSoft

I think pavlor is asking for is some kind of mime type of prefs for badly behaving programs (IBrowse mime editor for example)

If program X tries to run the execute program y whit argument x and z

I think it a good idea.

When I think of it we have the datatypes prefs, all we need to do is to rename the exe files and call this .uae .c64 or some thing, and then define program to execute exe file.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Jan-2007 at 03:06 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

@TetiSoft I think pavlor is asking for is some kind of mime type of prefs for badly behaving programs (IBrowse mime editor for example) If program X tries to run the execute program y whit argument x and z I think it a good idea.

When you found that program X does not run under OS4 then delete it from the OS4 installation.
When you found that program X does run under UAE then keep it in your UAE installation.
An UAE installation and an OS4 installation are two different things.

When you want to be able to start a C64 game on a Macintosh, are you asking
Apple for a GUI which is able to configure the starting options of your favorite
C64 emulator and which can launch that emulator when you doubleclick a C64
game which you stored on your MacOS drive (and not on some emulated floppy disk
inside the C64 emulator)? Probably Apple would tell you that you should ask
the authors of your C64 emulator and that they are not interested in writing
you a GUI for a third party emulator and to make that part of MacOS.

From the OS4 point of view its enough that you can use the compatibility
prefs file to tell OS4 to refuse starting incompatible programs IMHO.

I made some progress on my idea:
The goal is to make appicon, if you drop an icon of the game (binary or WHDLoad) on it, game will start automatically.

What is needed:

Emulation part:
AmigaOS 3.1
wbstart.library
runfromwb command

OS4-MOS part:
TSIcon - creates appicon on WB
e - supports multiple commands in one line

I don't know, if TSIcon and e command work on OS4/MOS. Please, somebody, test them.

http://aminet.net/util/app/TSIcon.lha
http://aminet.net/util/cli/E.lha

All other is theoretically done (I made some scripts).

@pavlor

I can't comment on the usability of the programs you suggest. However, I wonder if something like what it seems you are suggesting can't be requested in the functionality of WHDLoad? If tooltypes set on the icon indicate it should launch under UAE, then it launches UAE with a specified configuration. It might need to do a bit more than that though, like applying patches under UAE before the game actually IS run - and that I can see as being rather more complicated.

I agree making even legacy applications and games accessible with minimal configuration or the need to pick a configuration is highy desirable, though. Now if only I could actually get UAE to /work/ under OS 4...! :)

@ogccadmin

I can run wb programs (WHDload with tooltypes) from cli - thanks to the wbstart.library and runfromwb command.

It only needs assign in the game directory (pavlor:) and script that will run desired application (T: pavlors-command):

How the mechanismus could work?

1) User drag an icon (for example AbandonedPlaces whdload icon) on a appicon
2) Appicon does:
assign Pavlor: ""
;(place, where is the application located)
3) appicon make textfile T:pavlor-command

-------
In pavlor-command is writen:

C:runfromwb "name of the icon" ;(runfromwb is the command that simulates an doubleclick on the icon in WB)
-------

4) appicon copy UAE:pavlor.uaerc to RAM: (or in the directory, where you are after newcli command)
5) appicon runs E-UAE
UAE:uae -f pavlor.uaerc

-------
In pavlor.uaerc, there are specified emulated harddisks:
DH0: - plain WB3.1 with runfromwb (and optionally with other needed commands like whdload) in C and wbstart.library in libs

;DH0:s/startup-sequence is modified:
;instead of C:loadwb, there is
;
;if exists DH2:pavlor-command
; execute DH2:pavlor-command
; else
; loadwb
;endif

DH1: - Pavlor: (directory of the game)
DH2: - T:
--------

6) now all continues automatically
DH0:s/startup-sequence is executed
startup-sequence executes DH2:pavlor-command
pavlor-command runs the game
user can play!