Hopefully everyone on this AmigaOS4 Developers forum has already seen the news item I posted on the 20th announcing both a new dedicated AmigaOS4 development company BITbyBIT Software Group LLC www.bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com and their new Amiga Programming reference tool (The SDK Browser).
If not please check out the website and download the preview version of the SDK Browser.

I have been reading alot of discussions on the forums lately about how to get professional software developers the funding they need to program for AmigaOS4 full time, and there are some great ideas and initiatives out there worth supporting. I have started one personally that doesn't get more practical.

For the last 10 years I have worked professionally as a software engineer for a large corporation, writing mostly proprietary communications software and other embedded projects. For the last 16 years I have been programming on my Amigas and wanting to do so for a living. Recently, the company I have been working for was acquired yet again by an even larger company and they in turn offered me a promotion and a new job, which involved moving. Having already formed my new Amiga Development company in November of last year, and simply waiting for the right time to break out on my own anyway, I said no, I am going to write software for something fun again.

This is it folks, this is the big plunge, the step that most of us here all would like to take and maybe a rare few already have. But how do you really make it work? You can't write that killer app in your spare time over the years while working fulltime for someone else, believe me, I've tried it and there is never enough time. Either you are burned out by working 16 hour days to meet their deadlines or the market doesn't wait around for you to finally release it.

So what option does that leave you? Take out a large loan, or maybe get a grant from the Government to start your business? That's possible I guess. However, I only see one of two really practical options for most of us. Try to sustain your existance with monies gained from writing smaller projects, while you finish that larger one which will hopefully set you up in a sustainable fulltime business. Or survive on donations setup for writing or porting a specific title or type of software. The problem with funding setup for porting an Open Source project of course is that the programmer is back to square one once the project is finished, with nothing to sell and nothing to live on long enough to write the next thing.

My particular "Killer App" is in the area of providing much needed tools to ease the development process as a whole. So, I am going with the "survive on the small money first" option and will be releasing a series of smaller (badly needed) tools and utilities, maybe even dust off those "never got released" game titles.

I would be interested in your opinions here.

What types of smaller applications or tools would you as developers pay for?

What would you like to see first in a larger Developer's Suite or IDE?

Thanks everyone for your support!

EDIT:

I would like to thank everyone for their input and support. It would appear that my idea to release a spin-off tool from my main development effort was correct. Amiga developers need to have the basic tools NOW, worse then they need the advanced tools later, and I of course need to establish a flow of income to keep developments going full time.

Therefore I have decided to continue on the path started with the SDK Browser and release smaller incremental tools, which work together to form a basic IDE, and beyond.

So, you asked for it, you got it.

BITbyBIT's current AmigaOS4 project list:
[SHAREWARE] SDK Browser 1.0
[COMMERCIAL] SDK Browser 2.0
[COMMERCIAL] Basic IDE (no title yet)
[COMMERCIAL] Drap & Drop ReAction GUI Builder (no title yet)

Don't be too surprised if I throw in a few micro-priced items I think the AmigaOS4 user base might need as well.

Along with this plan of small steps towards the larger whole, I also intend to keep the releases coming (submitting something new about once a month or sooner), and the cost per "update" small.

This way everyone can afford to contribute to the growth of the AmigaONE/AmigaOS4 software base, and get something right away in exchange. Plus keep BITbyBIT Software Group in the black and producing bigger and better software for all of us.

Thanks again (and a special THANK YOU! to everyone who has actually registered the PREVIEW version of the SDK Browser).

Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com

Last edited by Orgin on 24-Dec-2004 at 08:46 AM.
Last edited by JamieKrueger on 24-Dec-2004 at 08:05 AM.

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@JamieKrueger

That one heck of a big chance mate.

I really hope it pays you dividends for your faith in the amiga platform.

_________________
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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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@JamieKrueger

Starting a business involves writing out a detailed business plan that shows how you intend to make money. If it's a solid plan, it won't be hard to get investors, the shame of it will be that investors will expect ownership, and if its really such a good plan, of course you would prefer not to give up any ownership. But, sometimes having that seed money allows a company to grow faster, than it otherwise would, and what you have to say to yourself, is my 49% ownership, actually worth more than 100% ownership would have been, but given the slower growth that the lack of investment capital would have entailed.

Those are some made up numbers, but you get the idea.

Personally, just listening to your thought processes, set off all kinds of alarm bells with me.
But who cares about me, anyway...I'm just saying, as food for thought, as they say.

Donations...WTF...WTHH....are you kidding me??? There is no business plan in the world that involves donations.

a little community group, sometimes asks for donations...a business doesn't need too, because a business is about making money.
Quote:

JamieKrueger wrote: Hopefully everyone on this AmigaOS4 Developers forum has already seen the news item I posted on the 20th announcing both a new dedicated AmigaOS4 development company BITbyBIT Software Group LLC www.bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com and their new Amiga Programming reference tool (The SDK Browser). If not please check out the website and download the preview version of the SDK Browser. I have been reading alot of discussions on the forums lately about how to get professional software developers the funding they need to program for AmigaOS4 full time, and there are some great ideas and initiatives out there worth supporting. I have started one personally that doesn't get more practical. For the last 10 years I have worked professionally as a software engineer for a large corporation, writing mostly proprietary communications software and other embedded projects. For the last 16 years I have been programming on my Amigas and wanting to do so for a living. Recently, the company I have been working for was acquired yet again by an even larger company and they in turn offered me a promotion and a new job, which involved moving. Having already formed my new Amiga Development company in November of last year, and simply waiting for the right time to break out on my own anyway, I said no, I am going to write software for something fun again. This is it folks, this is the big plunge, the step that most of us here all would like to take and maybe a rare few already have. But how do you really make it work? You can't write that killer app in your spare time over the years while working fulltime for someone else, believe me, I've tried it and there is never enough time. Either you are burned out by working 16 hour days to meet their deadlines or the market doesn't wait around for you to finally release it. So what option does that leave you? Take out a large loan, or maybe get a grant from the Government to start your business? That's possible I guess. However, I only see one of two really practical options for most of us. Try to sustain your existance with monies gained from writing smaller projects, while you finish that larger one which will hopefully set you up in a sustainable fulltime business. Or survive on donations setup for writing or porting a specific title or type of software. The problem with funding setup for porting an Open Source project of course is that the programmer is back to square one once the project is finished, with nothing to sell and nothing to live on long enough to write the next thing. My particular "Killer App" is in the area of providing much needed tools to ease the development process as a whole. So, I am going with the "survive on the small money first" option and will be releasing a series of smaller (badly needed) tools and utilities, maybe even dust off those "never got released" game titles. I would be interested in your opinions here. What types of smaller applications or tools would you as developers pay for? What would you like to see first in a larger Developer's Suite or IDE? Thanks everyone for your support!

@JamieKrueger

Talk to GregS about micropayments.

A launcher/decoder for digitally signed packages that checks whether or not the software about to be run is licensed, and unmodified would help the platform enourmously.

Dave.

@JamieKrueger

saw your program the other day and liked the look of it, I think that you should sell your apps for a small fee rather than give away as shareware with the possibility of people giving a donation, let people recieve a time delay demo that runs for say half an hour at a time as a free download,

the magic price for your utilities should be 9.99 as you are just under 10.00 but effectivly 10.00 basically 1 digit less as more people will pay 9.99 than 10.00,

when you start bundling your software together with a second app make it 14.99 for both or 9.99 each

again make demo available that times out, and a download after purchase option

ps good luck

_________________
Aldur
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@JamieKrueger

I for one whould like something like the old CanDo
But: isn't Hollywood something like that alredy?

Cheers

Luca

@JamieKrueger

You may know GoldED product already, but if you are planning to do some kind of IDE, perhaps you should check what GED offers first.

What about opensourced IDEs, Eclipse, others?

@JamieKrueger

Btw, you are welcome to publish demo versions etc of your apps on OS4Depot

/Bj�rn

@JamieKrueger

And as for what tools might be needed. Well a reaction GUI builder would be nice. With graphical live editing. Preferrably made so that unlerlying business logic and GUI code is separated so that the developer can go back to the GUI editor and update his GUI without rewriting business logic every time.

/Bj�rn

@Freddy

Quote:

This is it folks, this is the big plunge, the step that most of us here all would like to take and maybe a rare few already have. But how do you really make it work? You can't write that killer app in your spare time over the years while working fulltime for someone else, believe me, I've tried it and there is never enough time. Either you are burned out by working 16 hour days to meet their deadlines or the market doesn't wait around for you to finally release it.

Good luck!

Coder
p.s. lame joke, I know

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@JamieKrueger

I would like to have an integrated debugger in GoldED (well I could settle for any good editor) or a nice GUI for gdb (buttons, drag'n'drop and all that could help to debug easier).

(The alternative is to try to learn how to use gdb but i'm so lazy!!)

Other than that I would like tutorials for all parts of the AmigaOS-programming!
Interactive AmigaOS programming guide/course would be soo nice!

/Me, also wanting to develop fulltime on AOS!
(Not that my wife would let me do it!)

@JamieKrueger

I'd say Mr_Capehill and Orgin really hit the nail here, an IDE and a reaction GUI builder is what we need, in that order. I mean, we're basicly trying to rebuild the Amiga platform from scratch here and all tools made available for making this job easier would be greatly appreciated. I think any serious Amiga developer would gladly pay that little extra if it means improved quality and efficiency in their work.

For a larger project, I suggest either joining the AMozilla project or porting Java. This is simply something our platform desperately needs and accomplishing either one would make you an Amiga developer god worshipped until the next millenium or so.

_________________
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MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@JamieKrueger
Just downloaded your excellent browser -- I am am very impressed.

DaveP mentioned micropayments and this is a classic case. I am not a programmer so I will have your excellent program on my machine but use it very sparingly until I am actually writing something -- only when I am using it regularily will I get around to registering and paying the $15. I am not trying to be good but honest in saying this, chances are, with the best intentions and all the interruptions I may never get around to paying for your good work.

The Amiga market is not big and will take some time to grow -- shareware will not work (I doubt that it works anywhere).

I would not be surprised if you have had a hundred downloads within a few days, maybe a few people have paid, but if it were more than five or so I would be very surprised. what if everyone that downloaded your software paid you just $1.50 for it, even if the amount of downloads fell by half -- not a livable income, but a begining.

As you get more and more of your project together two pricing paths open up, over-pricing in an effort to recover the costs by a few purchases (top dollar) , and a comparative price, which given the size of the Amiga market would be priced at the bottum of that comparison (basement price).

There is a third option, of multiple buying strategies, of subscription, renting/part payments and low pricing which depend on having an easy to use micropayment system.

I think your startup company could benefit most by this not difficult to set up system. However we all have to get off the free-software addiction (both giving away work and seeking freebies) very low priced (almost micro-priced), but everyone pays for it (deep market pentration), selling value added services along with the software (low priced subscriptions with updates for fixed periods) presenting customers with lots of different packages and add-ons.

Please contact me if this interests you at all --- your products look great, your plans are just what we need -- forget bussiness plans and think on how to set up income streams.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@samface

I typically use the GNU Emacs/make/gcc/gbd combination on all my systems, so I'm afraid no IDE will ever live up to my expectations

But I would really like a GOOD Reaction builder. This means (as far as is possible. I have very little experience with Amiga programming, something I wish to change ) drag'n'drop of objects, possibility to make new classes, easy editing of properties and hooking up messages to objects etc.

The day I can drag in a few buttons and a textbox, edit a couple of properties (preferably without clicking more than a handful of mouse buttons ) and hit "Generate code" is the day I start playing with GUI programming on the Amiga

@JamieKrueger
About donations etc:
If you're working on an open-source project, never hesitate to ask for donations. Who knows, people might like your work
If it's closed-source, you'll have to rely on sales to make a living.

I think you should work on a bit of both. Your open source project could be porting an open source 3D engine, and your closed source project could be a game based on that engine. For instance Cube has a license which allows this.
This is just an example, though. But there are open source projects worthy of at least taking a look out there

For distribution I would guess you could very easily hook up with one of the newer AmigaOne dealers, since (s)he would already have a webshop etc in place. Don't think too fancy, we don't _need_ pressed CDs or printed manuals, even though we appreciate them. What we _need_ is more software.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your projects, please tell us more when you have something ready for release :)

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@JamieKrueger

WOW!

"the big plunge"

INDEED !

May I envy you and call you an idiot ?

(really, it takes a lot and requires huge amount of courage to do that kind of stunt. /me stuck @ working @ big corporation, getting bored to death every(other) workday etc etc.)

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@JamieKrueger

Wow thats a big chance you're taking! I wish I could take it too, but I really can't afford to not have a regular income...

I'll be registering your software as soon as Paypal customer services get back to me about some problems I'm having with their system.

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Playstation Network ID: xeron6

@xeron

Paypal isn't excactly known for their quick responses when people have problems, unfortunately. Good luck.

I think a system without Paypal would be preferable

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@JamieKrueger

I wish you the best of luck with this plunge, and hope it will be succesfull.

As for what I'd like to see/pay for:
- A Reaction GUI-builder;
- A port of a recent version of MySQL

@JamieKrueger

very inspirational post there dood.

i dont know what you meant with developer suite but what i would love to see (and been waiting for) is a fully fledged IDE ..(debugger/compiler/editor and so on...) ..native ofcourse and totally up to date.

keep on rocking and i for one will help as much as i can

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@JamieKrueger

You will probably find that along with the IDE/Gui builder, that one thing people may be willing to pay for is a driver/utility suite, something along the lines of Elbox's MM CD.

Mark

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