@BigBentheAussie
Quote:

This iMac Mini constitues a DEVESTATING blow for the POTENTIAL Amiga market. I am really angry about this because I really wanted to see Amiga competitive again. This thing steals the next gen Amiga's thunder.

The Amiga is the unknown in the market. Been away from the spotlight way too long. Even in it's glory days it was ignored by the market (and CBM's marketing too.)

Apple, and the Mac, are known quantities.

Go into a computer store and ask about an Amiga. You'll get a dumb look.

Ask about a Mac, and unless they sell Macs, you'll still get the dumb look. But they have heard of them.

@RobertDupuy

Quote:

Apple thinks integrated search is a competitive advantage, and before you can turn around, they have integrated search.....I mean it doesn't have to be a world beater...just pick something, anything...

But a good rant. That is what Mac is good at - DOING. They don't just talk for years without delivering a product.

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Pegasos1/MOS1.4.2 and Mac Sawtooth G4

@Chunder
Quote:

Chunder wrote: I suppose the benefit of having the DVI as a default is (a) as already mentioned, they supply a DVI-VGA adapter to allow you to use a standard monitor - no loss there, albeit perhaps slightly higher unit cost, and (b) it will enable people to use the bigger, better (and most likely Apple-branded) monitors over a standard VGA monitor.

Before you get all excited:

The DVI-VGA converter may not work at the resolutions you like, being more of a hinderance than an advantage.

Plug a DVI LCD into it, the system will recognize it, and change the video mode for the best operation. Without any intervention from you.

You may even be able to connect it to one of the newer televisions via DVI.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Last time I had my Powerbook (867 MHz)running next to a 1,5GHz P4 it ran circles around the P4.

Firstly, the desktop PC market has changed i.e. AMD's desktop PC market share in parity with Intel based PCs. Refer to http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P1534

"AMD desktops outsell Intel desktops 54% to 45%".

Picking on PIV(especially 400FSB/533FSB generation PIV) is easy i.e. AMD T-Bred-B can easily compete with this of type PIV release.

Secondly, the nature of Netburst (stupidly long pipelines) requires better infrastructure to get it going, hence the required improvements in FSB and L2 cache.

Quote:

They should be first class like X-Code.

Such an add-on is pretty a non-issue in Microsoft?s main markets. Commercial RAD MIS content generation software is dominated by MS Visual Studio and Borland Builders. X-Code is for MacOS X related development.

Quote:

Excuse me? First of all Windows PnP isn't exactly anywhere near the level of OS X,

There are two kinds of PnP in WIndows XP.
1. "Universal PnP" service (this is network oriented service).
2. Usual device PnP service (the service that was introduced from Win95).

UPnP supports zero-configuration networking and automatic discovery.

Quote:

secondly I'm talking about OpenTalk aka ZeroConf (formerly known as RendezVous).

I did state specific "Universal PnP" service not the normal PnP.

Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jan-2005 at 10:52 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jan-2005 at 10:47 PM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@BrianK
Quote:

Of course we do but if you buy from the Apple iTunes store the songs are only playable on an iPod. Whereas other stores that use other formats have a variety of players which play their DRM content. Since Apple has refused to license their DRM to any other company you can't use any other player then the iPod.

No.

Burn your iTunes purchases to an Audio CD. Then you import them back into iTunes in whatever format you want.

As too "only plays on an iPod", for the majourity of MP3 player purchasers, this isn't an issue.

Apple's DRM implementation is about as lax as the record companies would accept. Don't like DRM on MP3 files? Buy the audio CD.

@terminator

Mini-Mac is built from the Asia btw i.e. refer to ODMs.

Last edited by Hammer on 12-Jan-2005 at 11:04 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Trezzer

Quote:

Probably because the PC had to run all sorts of antivirus software, extra firewalls

MacOS X has a firewall btw.

Quote:

and so on. I'd say you'd need app. a 2 GHz machine before you have something equivalent to the G4s on offer here.

Careful with any generalisation since gaming benchmarks is Athlons?s best friend (this is reference to PowerPC G5 not PowerPC G4 based systems).

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

I'm not sure whether it consitutes a threat or not - I do know that it isn't right to knock an Apple product for being too good.

To me it seems like we're comparing a "final" Macintosh with a pre-release Amiga. Terms like 'developer pre-release' and 'early adopter' pretty much sum up how I feel about the current AmigaOnes. They're just early milestones on the road back - they're not supposed to be compared with Macs or PCs.

Also, the Mac pushes our agenda better than we can. Apple provide a good case for a commercially developed alternative OS. Without a strong Mac, people would assume that only open-source can match the power of Microsoft and make a relevant, modern OS.

Linux gets a lot of hype, but next to OS 4 and OS X, it looks like a badly fitted mish mash of other people's ideas. I like that MacOS X reminds people of that!

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 12-Jan-2005 at 11:45 PM.

I think this machine is great - if I hadn't just ordered a uA1-c I would not be able to resist ordering one. (I'm having difficulty as it is!)
It's still expensive, though, compared to X86. The closest X86 analogy to this is the Xbox (The only thing the miniMac has is a combo drive and a firewire over an Xbox).

So, before you get down about the Amiga pricing, just consider the difference in price between an Xbox and the miniMAC - and this is from a company with an 8% share in desktops (not .000000000008% like the Amiga!!)

I take the opinion that next to the minimac, which will probably sell x million units, the uA1 is an absolute bargain with it's sub 10,000 production runs.

You also have to consider how long ago it was that Mac broke with 68K to PPC - and compare with the timescale we have - I think we have a lot to be happy about.

TBH IMO this is a threat - With the exception of the OS this is exaclty what I wanted from a MicroA1 or Peg2.

@BrianK

Quote:

We are trying to achieve a $500-$600 system here. There's no way to do that with WaterCooling.

You don't need water cooling, and a cooler can be had for as little as ?34, for example this one. (Sorry, link is in german, but you get the idea). Add to this a graphics card with passive cooling (Radeon 9200 or 9550, Matrox G450), a silent harddisk, then you will only have the power supply to take care of (this one for example). All standard components, all relatively cheap, you will easily get a $500 machine that is extremely quiet.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Trezzer

Quote:

Motorola is coming out with a phone that supports Fairplay DRM.

Cool, that's the first time they've allowed a company an in to Fairplay.

Quote:

That said I'd really rather just buy an iPod and live with Fairplay DRM (or just buy CDs and rip them to MP3 and put them on there) than buy any of the second rate players out there, that supports the ridiculously restrictive WM DRM

WMA DRM is only restrictive from the standpoint you can't use it on a Mac. It's less restrictive from the standpoint you have many options besides 1 player, well now 2 for Fairplay - iPod or Motorola cell phone. It's less restrictive from the standpoint that you have more stores then just the 1 Apple store.

Quote:

Sure, I'd rather see no DRM and have the choice between all players

It does exist. You have to buy the CD and then use Ogg or MP3.


Quote:

Apple just has the advantage that it has the best player,

That's your opinion. Others agree and others disagree. Personally, I don't like it.
Other players, not all, have better output quality. Rio Karma definitely has better output then the iPod.

Quote:

Maybe it's the best store

Probably true.

Quote:

and the best DRM system.

False.
WMA has 5.1 surround sound encoder for free. Consumer grade AAC for Apple's only does stereo.
WMA costs less for manufactures to use. And until Motorola no other company has gotten into Apple.
WMA players exist for Mac's and Linux, see Interplay.
WMA is lossless, I believe Apple's is lossy.
I preceive WMA as better quality at the same bitrate as AAC.

Quote:

I can understand why they don't want to share with everyone else. And so far it's far from a monopoly.

Current estimates are 80-90% of all online song sales go to Apple. Since you're locked to the iPod once you buy a song from Apple if the people want to move to a WMA player they can't move their songs with them.

Last edited by BrianK on 13-Jan-2005 at 03:47 AM.

@m0lebrain

Quote:

All I can say is that if it aint Olivia Newton John compatible then I don't want it. I know for a fact that my amiga is Olivia Newton John compatible.

I think that ANY brand of computer could be Olivia Newton John compatible,
as long as you use enough "Grease"

LyleHaze

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question=(2b||!(2b))

@dan.hutch

Quote:

This is actually a pretty cool system. Of course, it annoys me now about what I paid for my used dual G4, but s'ok (quote by me/wegster)

Quote:

Definately, but I think they've made a few mistakes: 1) They should have just had standard VGA connector on the mobo and skipped the DVI, this is a budget machine, people will probably want a 'budget' screen to go with it and they mostly have VGA, not DVI. 2) TV out - this surely should have TV out, like uA1! 3) Cordless keyboard and mouse connectibity built in - thinking in terms of getting it into living rooms + laptop size keyboard to complement the small size of the machine. 4) 2 front USB connections, for USB pen drives, game pads etc. 5. Choice of colours, like the iPod mini, e.g. a black model and a silver model which would look aesthetically pleasing next to your plasma TV or home cinema system.

Mostly indifferent on the DVI- bear in mind they actually ONLY do DVI, and use a DVI to VGA adapter...I expect the cost different to be mostly neglible, so it's not a bad move IMHO.

TV out- yep, that would be nice, no disagreement.

Cordless- nice, but not needed. I suppose if a package comes out (which yes, I expect it will) to turn this into a 'media center' (let's face it the size/lack of noise begs to be), it will add on bluetooth, or at least IR remote, keyboard, etc...and that _may_ be part of Apple's strategy here- break even on the boxes, increase the userbase, then make $ on the software and 'the goodies'.

front connections- YES, DAMNIT! They screwed up on that one IMHO, bigtime. The rest of the issues aren't a big deal, but that one is just annoying.

Colors- I expect them to wait to see how they sell, then we'll see it. They've got to make sure it's going to make $ first I'm sure...

Again, not a bad system. Ironic in that my first thought was to get one for my gf- got her an iPod for Xmas, although I've got an iRiver (by choice), and she loves it. her Windows laptop is a complete mess, to the point it needs to be reloaded from scratch (ever seen a P4-M run like a PII-300? That's after kazaa removal, misc other spyware, startup crap etc etc). While OS X isn't so far much to my own taste, for 'the basics,' which is what she really uses it for in grad school....it's a good deal, and less 'crapware' to be on the lookout for as well. The ironic part is she actually doesn't HAVE a monitor or keyboard/mouse, just the Wintel laptop....which starts to make an [ei]Mac look like an option...but then it's not portable, so how about an iBook? Which coincidentally, for best results, IMHO, would then need a monitor and keyboard...arggh! Good pricing move by Apple, it's already got the potential for upsales and it's not even out yet!

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Atheist

Quote:

Think about this, the Playstaion III and x-$-x II, which will be available in 9 months, or so, what CAN'T they do, that this could? They will be faster, half the price, and easier to set up. They will have 70% to 90% of the features of this computer. With their USB port, you'll probably be able to even PRINT stuff you browse off of the net, with these next gen "game systems". What they will lack is an OS, that a computer provides. Someone will hack linux onto them, of couse, oh boy, what joy! They will knock this off the radar, and the clones will undercut, just because they can! HP or Dell, or Toshiba, or maybe even Palm will have something to say about this, I beileve this fully.

Ok, I've got to say it, Atheist- your arguments, at least to me, seem inconsistent. Your 'norrmal Amiga reasoning' usually says, 'It doesn't matter, it doesn't run AOS, so isn't relevant'. Ok, your opinion, and that's fine.

But here you claim the PSIII and X-Box 2 will somehow affect the mac mini sales, yet neither of those run OS X, which for _some_ is something to get excited about, like you do about dreaming about AOS. See the hypocrisy here?

Have you actually USED OS X to make this comparison, or is it just 'fandom' speaking?

I've got nothing against AOS, and have 'commited' my $1200 or so to that cause, nor do I have anything 'against' OS X....but let's at least try to be consistent in arguments, OK?

If you really think this has no effect whatsoever on _desktop_ AOS future sales...I don't believe it (but have already said my own piece on it), but ok, your opinion...based on it doesn't run AOS4....but then to argue a game console which yeah, likely will run Linux, is going to somehow 'take out' the mac mini running what is for most a superior user experience (to the average user) over Linux distros....

Remember that saying? It's coming to me...wait...ah, there it is!

"Things that make you go Hmm"......

As far as clones go...let's see...the smallest consumer board right now is what, mini--ITX, like the uA1? Dell doesn't design their own mainboards, they grab an existing board, alther the PS connector, and add their broken BIOS to it. They certainly do not 'innovate'...Palm building a complete computer system? They seem to have enough problems with PalmOS, but are successful in that market...you think they're going to go into entirely new territory to try to make a useable PC? Hmm.

HP makes good servers, and that's pretty much about it. I can't remember the last 'innovation' I saw out of HP though.

Was there someone else you mentioned to compete with this custom designed plar, one-off type of system that Apple is now mass producing? Personally, the only one that IMHO _could_ do it......is M$, if they chose to do it. The problem with that is they couldn't recoup their losses on selling the box by 'specialty' software like they do with XBox...so I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but I would think it's unlikely.

Sorry for the brief excursion into what some people refer to as reality...we now return back to the land of fairies, dragons, and 'Amiga at any cost, and _soon_'.

Note I'm not 'down' on AOS at all, or even the current A1 prices (ok, not much)....just have a _realistic_ view on things in technology land...and the way most companies work.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Atheist

Quote:

If OS X, mswinpro, linux and AOS4.x was running on the SAME 3.x GHz x86 CPU, with same graphics board, sound, input/outputs, etc., and the same price, which would you choose? ... Those other OSs' WON'T change. They'll always be the way they are, or get more and more closed.

Sigh. Ok..Atheist/all, I am SOOO not trying to single anyone out. Atheist, I'm honestly not sure what it is, but some of your posts 'just hit that spot.'- please don't take it personal. I've emailed several computer mag edititors on the past about their writers that put out incorrect information as 'fact,' so I guess you could say that INACCURATE, ENTIRELY MADE UP INFO DRIVES ME MAD!

So, it seems now that you're implying that Windows, Linux, and OS X are what...proprietary, closed systems?

Umm...Windows- ok, no argument.

OS X is based on BSD, I _believe_ FreeBSD...which is, guess what? AN OPEN SOURCE OPERATING SYSTEM! See www.opendarwin.org for details if you'd like to actually have some information behind statements. The *BSDs have been open source forever now, and are very stable platforms...and yes, evolving as well.

Linux- silly me, Linux NEVER changes. Nothing ever comes out there that's inventive...hmm, BitTorrent, FireFox primary dev platform, OO? KDE, GNOME, in various _evolving_ incarnations? Support to run on Hmm, the PSX and PS2 that you alluded to the next generation of in an earlier post? Ability to run on ARM processors, and virtually everything else....

Now, let's compare. AOS4 = proprietary, closed source operating system, in it's entirety.
There is nothing wrong with that, depending on your goals....but then how can you try to 'slam' the other OSes based on the very same ideal as AOS??

As far as which platform I personally would run given _only_ a single system. It would honestly depend on what I needed to do at the time. For general development and my job, Linux. For games, Windows. For 'a change' and to see what may be able to be done with them from a development standpoint 'for fun'....OS X or AOS.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Interesting
Quote:

Ok, I'm enjoying this Forum...let me tempt you with this: Mini-Amiga2 (Hypothetical) Cube case w/Amiga logo 1.25GHz PowerPC G4, Memory - 256 MB Standard built in 40GB Hard drive AmigaOS4 Nvidia GPU with 64MB DDR non-shared memory. BIOS - Uboot socketed, w/OS4 enabling code North Bridge- Articia "S" or Artica "P" South Bridge-VIA 82C686B (replaced with a superior chipset) Ports:VGA output DVI output; S-Video, composite output (1) JoyStick/Midi port (1) PS2 kb and (1) PS2 mouse ports (4) USB 2.0 (2 front, 2 rear) (1) FireWire (1) 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet (1) 56K v.92 fax modem (1) SD or memory stick card port (front) (1) Headphones front retail price (production start) $600.00

Ok, it's a deal. Build it, and I WILL BUY TWO. Although I want GigEthernet. Everything else is perfect, and I'd even be OK if you lost the PS/2 ports and modem, even the media slot (because it can be had back by working USB). I would buy two of them......or trade on a slightly used by not yet delivered uA1?

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Dear Mr. Michael Parker,

Thank you for your order dated 12-JAN-2005, which Apple has received at the Apple Store.

Item Number Product Number Product Description Quantity Ordered Cost Est Build time
1 M9177B/A Apple Cinema Display (20 flat pane 1 594.89 Within 24hrs
2 B9396B/A Wireless Keyboard & Mouse Kits 1 59.57 1 - 2 Weeks
3 Custom Mac mini 1.25GHz 1 407.67 Ship by Jan 29t
065-5337
065-5325
065-5329
ZM065-5390
065-5328
B065-5321
B065-5323
512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme Card
56k V.92 modem
Accessory kit
Mac OS X


Total: 1062.13
Shipping Cost: 0.00
Discount: 0.00
VAT @ 17.50% : 185.87
Order Total: 1248.00
Currency: GBP

say no more...

_________________
Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@Hammer

Quote:

Depends on the target market e.g. a HP box usually comes with MS Money 2004 OEM. Microsoft?s main market is in SOHO with business financial background.

Microsoft's main market is the world. Now Apple is targeting a lot of potential markets with this product: makes a nice STB, a cheap and capable school computer, an affordable first mac for people who got an ipod and want more and so on. But they are not targeting the business segment. Basically it's everyone else.

Quote:

For near orange Vs orange comparisons i.e. PC vendor Vs PC Vendor An example; HP usually bundles the following (snip)

With a $500 computer? I just had a look at edbpriser.dk which does comparisons and I entered the exact amount that the Mac Mini costs. The HP machine that came closest had XP Home, integrated intel graphics card, no cd writer, no firewire and so on. To be totally fair it doesn't seem the SR1000Z series is sold here, so I can't comment on that particular price/features. I did take a look at all brand name machines at that price and they all looked pretty bad really.

Quote:

Quote: These apps are soo good you could make a movie and win awards with them Pretty useless in Microsoft's main target market i.e. most has day jobs which has nothing to do with wining the next movie awards, but most has something to do with financial management.

But the home and the educational market is huge. It doesn't really matter what one company's main focus is, when we're talking market share, making a dent and all that. Apple basically needs to get the foot inside at this point. Bigger market share = more developers = more programs = more users etc.

Quote:

Are you sure? I just had a quick look around and precious few seemed to come with firewire out of the box.

Again.. out of the machines I looked at none seemed to include it at the price level.

Quote:

Quote: I hardly know anyone who uses PCs any more Market data suggest otherwise.

It's true though. I know some people over the 'net who use PCs, but most people I talk to IRL have either been mac users for some time or just switched.

@Hammer

Regarding Intel/AMD I'll trust your word. It still doesn't change that you need additional power to run the necessary maintenance/protection software in Windows though. They do slow the machine significantly and you can't really do without them (then it'll be slow because of a different reason ;))

Quote:

Such an add-on is pretty a non-issue in Microsoft?s main markets. Commercial RAD MIS content generation software is dominated by MS Visual Studio and Borland Builders. X-Code is for MacOS X related development.

And Java and SDL etc. - these days cross-platform development is an easy thing to do. I must remind you we are still looking a value for money and not just "for market X". This machine is not targeting what you think it is.

Thank you for the clarification on UPnP. I just haven't seen it used ever. OpenTalk is used extensively in OS X though.