@Trezzer

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Yes. Actually when these companies use "sold" it's like this: Microsoft uses sold to dealers, Sony uses shipped to retail (i.e. not yet sold to dealers), Nintendo uses (afair) sold at retail - in as far as those numbers can be reliable.

Microsoft was in catch up mode from launch until about August of this year. So if one is looking at Nov 05 - July 06 numbers sold from Microsoft you can pretty much safely bet sold to dealers were the same as in end-user hands.

@Trezzer

NPD: December sales down 4 percent, 607,000 360s sold

"Having already sold more than 326,000 units by the end of November, the hard-to-find next-gen console saw another 281,000 ship during December"

http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=432290&page=0

IMO Sony at least has an excellent launch title available with Resistance: Fall of Man. If Sony outperforms Microsoft compared to last year and tops 607,000 units sold, IMO XBox fans should back off a bit and refrain from attacking Sony's performance a bit.

The PS3 goes up against a 1 year headstart of the XBox 360, has good competition from the Nintendo Wii as a christmas present. Still Sony performs well with PS2 and PSP sales.

The clear winners of this year are Nintendo handhelds and the Sony Playstation 2. IMO only if for next year the XBox 360 is able to outsell Sony's products, XBox fans have some bragging rights against the Sony Playstation, but the launch of their favourite games console was less than perfect as well (mass repairs, big shortages, lackluster launch titles, etc).

@MikeB

360 sold 1.5 million before year's end.

900,000 in North America, 500,000 in Europe, and 100,000 in Japan.

@MikeB

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the launch of their favourite games console was less than perfect as well (mass repairs, big shortages, lackluster launch titles

It's true that there were issues with a percentage of first generation units - just like with all other consoles ... pretty much save Nintendo's which usually have very few problems.

Lacklustre launch titles? I'm sorry, but I'd have to call BS on that. I'd take titles like Call of Duty 2, Kameo, Project Gotham Racing 3 and Condemned over Resistance any day. There were 18 titles available and it was pretty much the most well-rounded launch in console history.

That there was a too long period right after launch with too few games is a different story altogether.

Shortages, well, yes, they were the first to do a world-wide launch of this scale and Sony haven't matched up in any respect so far. Nintendo surpassed it though and have performed admirably. Nintendo did have a slight delay between launches which probably helped a bit.

Remind me again... where do I go to pick up a PS3 here in Europe right now?

@MikeB

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IMO Sony at least has an excellent launch title available with Resistance: Fall of Man

Not bad don't forget the 360 had Call of Duty 2 and PGR3 -- Gamespot has them ranked 8.8 and RFoM at 8.6. Also late Dec was DOA4 for the 360. Thus, we have some comparable rankings and more possiblities of the good ranking under the 360 launch window.

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XBox fans have some bragging rights against the Sony Playstation, but the launch of their favourite games console was less than perfect as well (mass repairs, big shortages, lackluster launch titles, etc).

You have to admit the PSfanboys have a bit of crow to eat. Last year they were giving the 360 purchasers the just you wait and see how our console and it's games kicks your butt next Christmas. It turned out they were talking smack they have similar issues.

Actually I think Microsoft is a bit more impressive w/ what it pulled off. It took about 9 months from design of the CPU to shipment of the console. Sony announced the Cell about 2 years ago. Over twice the time to come up with a console and game lineup and this is what we get? Maybe they were right to pull Ken out of the gaming division.

@Trezzer

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It's true that there were issues with a percentage of first generation units - just like with all other consoles ... pretty much save Nintendo's which usually have very few problems.

Some reports have the first shipment of Wii's as as high as 10% return rate for defects. While I doubt it's truly that high I think the Wii has been less reliable then other Nintendo consoles at launch. But it appears to have surpassed the N64 in sales.

@BrianK

There's a way to go yet before reaching 33 million Wiis

Actually:
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The North American launch on September 29, 1996 was a success with 500,000 N64 units sold during the first 24 hours, a record up until the release of Sega's Dreamcast (510,000) three years later.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Dec-2006 at 11:26 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Lacklustre launch titles? I'm sorry, but I'd have to call BS on that. I'd take titles like Call of Duty 2, Kameo, Project Gotham Racing 3 and Condemned over Resistance any day. There were 18 titles available and it was pretty much the most well-rounded launch in console history. That there was a too long period right after launch with too few games is a different story altogether.

Absolutely agree on both counts. I'd add Perfect Dark Zero to that, as maligned as it was by some. I enjoyed it and it's undeniably a solid launch title.

The original comment shows the lack of balance in MikeB's posts. I know the feeling of wanting a new gadget that much that you search out every scrap of information on the web, but it feels like a relentless stream of propaganda, dressed up as analysis.

Anyway, I thought I'd give some more impressions on the Wii, as it's not had much of a mention.

The pointing system is way better than I expected, and not just in-game. Nintendo have discovered the best way, bar none, to interface with your TV. Zooming around the globe in the weather channel, well, it's hard to describe without sounding like a naturist - it's so natural, even liberating to use. With HD and Opera this would be a killer feature, but I'm still looking forward to browsing with the wiimote.

The power of the motion sensing remains a bit of a mystery. You can weight your shots in golf nicely, and chipping onto the green and seeing the ball roll in is great. Tennis seems to understand forehand and backhand, and bit of power, but everything else is just timing. Sometimes you trigger a movement in the game that breaks your confidence.

It's difficult to know what's a limitation of the game, what's intentional simplification and what's hardware limitation. You do see people with different techniques in these games resulting in different but predictably different outcomes, which is reassuring.

The line-up doesn't match up to the 360s launch, lacklustre or not. There's a bit of a hole where Super Mario Galaxy should be. That was obviously intended to show off the controller in a mainstream game with just enough depth.

Zelda is wonderful - in fact, I'm enjoying it more than the previous 3D incarnations. It hardly makes use of the wiimote though - it's basically a GameCube title, so it's cheating a little bit.

Chris

@clebin

Yes, it seem that while the Wiimote is perfectly capable of sensing accelerationg and all sorts of pointing, the one thing it doesn't do well is free movement pointing away from the screen. The only place I could really see this was in Baseball (Wii Sports), where you could see the bat flickering around a bit even under optimal lighting conditions. It mostly knows where it is, but not precisely and all the time apparently.

And yes, it seems that at least both Rayman and Wii Sports are mostly based on accelerometer input and pointing while very little on free movement. I don't know if it's going to be capable of full free motion sensing eventually (perhaps some filters will do the trick) but at least all kinds of pointing and acceleration seems to be fine. Even if the golf game sometimes picked up the back movement as forward motion in golf - causing a bit of frustration now and then.

@BrianK

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Not bad don't forget the 360 had Call of Duty 2

Call of Duty 2 is IMO better played on a PC with mouse and keyboard. The PS3 has also Call of Duty 3. Resistance, Lemmings 2 and Fight Night: Round 3 are available. Some people have lots of fun already playing Motorstorm and Formiula 1 demos.

The list of PS3 launch games and XBox 360 lauch games are IMO somewhat equivalent. But of these games Resistance is IMO the best title, followed by Kameo for the XBox 360. IMO Resistance is arguably a better game than even the much praised 'Gears of War', it's also a much bigger game in single player and online you can play with up to 40 people as well, IMO it has by far more lastability.

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Sony announced the Cell about 2 years ago. Over twice the time to come up with a console and game lineup

The final spec Cell and final development kit haven't been finalized for that long. So IMO no, you cannot blame the developers. The Cell is one of the most ambitious CPU projects ever.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 08:42 AM.

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Official reaction to the rumour: "Konami has no plans to bring Metal Gear Solid 4 to the Xbox 360 at this time."

Funny to see how rumours continue to spread like this:

"seems this rumor does not want to die. In the latest EGM, it is rumored that Metal Gear Solid 4 will also be coming to Xbox 360. The reason behind this rumor is the fact that Konami is frightened that there aren’t enough PlayStation 3s out to make an acceptable profit. By bringing the game to Xbox 360, more people will be able to get their hands on the game which will in turn help Konami turn a profit."

http://www.xboxaddict.com/news/print.php?News_ID=7614

@Trezzer

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Remind me again... where do I go to pick up a PS3 here in Europe right now?

Why do you want to pick up a PS3 right now, I mean if you don't like the PS3 as a games console nor the available games?

Having fun with Linux, watching HD movies or linking up your PSP?

There are several PS2 games coming up to look forward to which can also be played on the PS3, for instance 'Gods of War 2'. The PS2 is the clear winner this year, IMO you cannot blame many software developers for concentrating on this current gen platform for the time being.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 09:30 AM.

@clebin

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Absolutely agree on both counts.

It's all relative though, I meant lackluster in the sense of really wowing people. Sure the CD32 launch was by far more lackluster, many good games available at the time were A500 or CDTV games or A1200 games often lacking enhancements to justify being distributed on CDs vs diskettes.

I think some really "wowing" titles will be available in time for the European launch, Nowadays it takes more time and effort to get the most out of these NG games consoles. I think Lair and Motorstorm will be the first titles to deliver such a feeling on the PS3. Gears of War apparently already achieves this for many XBox 360 fans, although personally I think Tomb Raider Legend and Kameo are better games.

I guess after Half-life 2 , Mario64 and GTA San Andreas I am not that easily "wowed" anymore. I hope Halo 3 will be the first title to achieve this for me, regarding the XBox 360.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 10:04 AM.

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think Lair and Motorstorm will be the first titles to deliver such a feeling on the PS3.

Maybe I should add Ninja Gaiden Sigma as well. At least it looks a lot better than I expected!

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/352/935677_20061219_screen047.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/352/935677_20061219_screen028.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/352/935677_20061219_screen030.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/352/935677_20061219_screen032.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/352/935677_20061219_screen044.jpg

@MikeB

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Why do you want to pick up a PS3 right now

Dude, sarcasm to sarcasm? Weak.

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The PS2 is the clear winner this year

The DS is the clear winner this year. And you still can't compare cheap end of life consoles with a boatload of cheap games to more expensive machines from the generation after it. Sure the PS2 performed well - especially riding on games like Buzz and Guitar Hero. But stop bringing it up in a discussion about PS3 and 360 (or Wii), since it's just not relevant. Just like the DS.

@Trezzer

Quote:

The DS is the clear winner this year.

I already said that and of course I own two of them, but I meant this with regard to more comparable solutions. Comparing a cheap Nintendo DS to a far more expensive multi-functional PS3 is like comparing Discman sales to sales of top audio equipment. It not strange at all to own a portable solution next to a home solution, they aren't directly competing that much.

BTW Sony is planning an "AV-centric PS3" as well. There are still few details available, but it could be interesting for me if the planned TV-tuner is already built-in.

- more expensive
- standard AV component sized box
- anti-shake insulator
- twice the main memory
- 2x HDMI

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 11:47 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I already said that and of course I own two of them, but I meant this with regard to more comparable solutions. Comparing a cheap Nintendo DS to a far more expensive multi-functional PS3 is like comparing Discman sales to sales of top audio equipment

Exactly! And the DS is even more expensive than a PS2. Which is why you keep PS2 and DS out of the discussion for lack of relevance.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Dec-2006 at 01:03 PM.

@Trezzer

With regard to the Sony PS2 and Nintendo Wii I don't agree, despite lower costs to purchase these units they are dedicated home solutions. For games developers good Wii and PS2 sales do matter to decide which console their next game should be developed for.

But the handheld market is a bit different. For instance compatibiliy or emulation on a dedicated home solution does not prevent people from buying these handhelds, but PS2 and Wii compatibility / emulation on another games console would very likely effect PS2 and Wii sales for the long run.

Compare this to Mac vs PC and smartphone vs PDA. Cheap PCs greatly effects Mac sales, but much less smartphone or PDA sales. Although of course there are things like brand loyalty and seamless connectivity between different market segments to take into account...

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 01:32 PM.

@Trezzer

The PS3 should be full in stock now. Sony shipped massive amounts of units in time for christmas, it will be interesting to see if they will outperform Microsoft this year.

I would like to know how many Amazon received for their promotion.
http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/12192006/05/nintendo_wii_and_ps3_amazon_deal_is_over

They stated they had limited stock available and huge demand:

"The chances of getting the opportunity to buy Nintendo's console wound up 28-1. The low-end Sony model ended up with a 22-1 likelihood, while the $599 60 gigabyte unit odds were 44 to 1."

I guess this will impact eBay sales, IMO it's better to buy directly from your local dealer. I think more people are interested in the more expensive 60 GB model, myself included. So cheapness will not always win, if you compare features vs costs.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Dec-2006 at 01:49 PM.

@MikeB

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Call of Duty 2 is IMO better played on a PC with mouse and keyboard. The PS3 has also Call of Duty 3. Resistance, Lemmings 2 and Fight Night: Round 3 are available

I didn't the PS3 didn't have good games. It clearly does -- Lemmings 2? Glad the Amiga is back.. Of course I wish the Amiga's interface is hands down better then the PS3.

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IMO Resistance is arguably a better game than even the much praised 'Gears of War'

Really? Being in Europe and having no PS3s shipped there how much time have you played Resistance to generate this opinion? Having played about 20-30 minutes of Resistance it's definitely a good game but I personally prefer Gears and rank it higher.

Quote:

The final spec Cell and final development kit haven't been finalized for that long. So IMO no, you cannot blame the developers.

I blame Sony. It's their job to come up with the development kit in a timely and quality fashion such that it encourages and eases the developers jobs. They've had 2x longer then the Windows team on the CPU but couldn't manage the project. They stubbed their toes period. The PS3 to me appears to be a product dropped from the engineers to the public. It seems to lack the refinement in a end user product that the 360 or the PS2 display.