@MikeB

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There are way more than 1 million Blu-Ray players (currently estimated to be around 1.5 million globally) in consumers hands already completely overshadowing the global amount of HD-DVD players in consumers hands and on the market today. IMO if not for Microsoft the format wars would already be over, with high definition consumers greatly benefiting from this in the long run.

There are pluses for HD-DVD besides Microsoft. First is the inception of HD-DVD was better then Blu-Ray. Players were in the $600 range vs the $1K range. HD-DVD went straight to VC-1 when Blu-Ray tried to stay with Mpeg-2. Manufacture and licensing costs of HD-DVD is less so if sold at the same price studioes can make more $$. Or alternatively lower the price of the movie to make it more desireable for users yet still make their profits. With the PS3 being able to play Blu-Ray movies that's definitely a plus in the Blu-Ray camp. Now if it'll translate to sales for Blu-Ray time will tell. Each has about the same # of movies available but I believe HD-DVD movie sales are still leading.

Quote:

As Microsoft seems to promote the XBox 360 as a HD content download player, IMO they should have released the XBox 360 with an upgradable harddrive, like Sony has. 20 GB is going to be a pretty severe limiting factor in regard to dealing with high definition video downloads, one high definition movie, for instance a full lenght, full quality 2 hour HD movie is already way beyond the available space on the harddrive by a large margin, let alone if you want to install some game content along with it.

The Xbox360 harddrive is user upgradeable. The only difference is at this time you just can't use any generic drive off of the shelf. Both suffer that they made 2.5" laptop drives their model as these are more expensive then the 3.5"drives.

Also it seems that you are saying a 2 hour HD movie is beyond the available space. V for Vendetta in HD is around 6GB that's not beyond the space on the 20GB harddrive. What do you mean here? Surely a drive above 20GB is desireable and will be coming out but you can buy more 20GB drives. $100 for a 2.5" 20GB drive isn't horrid. But, a larger harddrive would give the user much more space for not much more expense.

One way to get more space without buying a 2nd 20GB drive is to use the XSATA product. It plugs between the harddrive and 360 and allows you to copy the content from the HD to your PC. One plus of this is now you can move your content to a RAID subsystem and be protected against any single harddrive failure. The other is of course 'unlimited' storage as 1TB harddrives are not available and if you feel you need Pentabytes of storage for your 360 you can do it in that manner.

The other way to get more space for the 360 is to do media streaming from your Windows XP or MCE or VISTA machine. Also, Microsoft is supposed to be rolling out the Home Server at CES i'd be a bit surprised if the 360 could not leverage that product some how.

Quick summary -- you can use a variety of methods to get more storage space for your 360 if you need it.

Quote:

Currently as a HD-DVD player the XBox 360 already consists of 4 components with lots of cables involved in connecting them to each other and to power supplies

The 360 and HD player each have 1 power cable. Between the 2 units there is 1 USB 2.0 cable. So lots is 2?

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I like it very much that with the PS3 wireless controller you can easily turn on the console like you do with your TV remote control.

You can do this with the 360 wireless controller of course. One plus on the 360 is I can turn it on with my universal remote. Since universal remotes w/ Blu-Ray are hard to come by I now am forced to have 2 remotes for my system a definite ping against the PS3.

@BrianK

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Both suffer that they made 2.5" laptop drives their model as these are more expensive then the 3.5"drives.

3rd parties are working on external 3.5 inch harddrive solution, switchable from internal drive to the external one.

"Their new product is currently codenamed the Hyperdrive, allowing users to connect 3.5" SATA hard drives to their PS3. While they haven't tested the upper limits of their new project, they have confirmed the connection of a 750 GB hard drive onto their console, which should definitely bring in a lot of options once a full-fledged PS3 homebrew and modding scene develops (if people can only find more units, that is). While working on the Hyperdrive, however, the team is also planning to send out an adapter for people to connect with, so that those who really want to get into the spirit of things can do so without any extra waiting."

For me personally the price of an internal drive is well worth the elegance though.

Quote:

The 360 and HD player each have 1 power cable. Between the 2 units there is 1 USB 2.0 cable. So lots is 2?

There is one cable for connecting the power to the large transformator, one connecting the transformator to the console, there's one connecting the HD-DVD drive to the XBox 360, there the cable connecting the HD-DVD to the smaller external adapter and one connecting the adaptor to the power supply.

That's 5 (or 3 if you want to combine the adaptor / transformator solution as being only 2) (So 4 main components to fit in with the rest of your Audio Video setup, which can be a mess already with satellite, VCR, Audio, etc cables), where the PS3 only uses one cable for the power, with the transformator neatly build into the device.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 02:59 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 02:40 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

3rd parties are working on external 3.5 inch harddrive solution, switchable from internal drive to the external one. ... For me personally the price of an internal drive is well worth the elegance though.

Since the 3.5" drive won't fit in the 2.5" bay this solution undoubtably will be more external cabling and a 2nd standalone device. We all know how you hate that. So yes the extra for a 2.5" drive is likely worth it for you. In the US one can get a 2.5" 160GB harddrive for about $200. For $180 you can get a 3.5" 500GB -- that bit of ugliness may be well worth it.

@BrianK

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You can do this with the 360 wireless controller of course.

Can you turn the console off using the controller? I don't think so, if so at least I haven't figured this out yet. On the PS3 it's easy.

Maybe turning off the console using the wireless controller is more important than turning the console on. While inserting a disc into the console you will already need to be next to the console, but if you want to sleep after watching a movie and are too lazy to walk to the console for turning it off, the option of doing so wirelessly may come in handy.

Quote:

One plus on the 360 is I can turn it on with my universal remote. Since universal remotes w/ Blu-Ray are hard to come by I now am forced to have 2 remotes for my system a definite ping against the PS3.

Yes, that's currently a plus for the XBox 360. For me personally the wireless game controller is sufficient though. I tested the XBox 360 gamepad as well for use with watching DVD movies and this didn't bother me.

I think eventually we will see 3rd parties releasing a combined Bluetooth/IR universal remote and less elegant options to add infra red support to the PS3.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 03:53 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 03:50 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 03:48 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 03:42 PM.

@MikeB
Quote:

Can you turn the console off using the controller? I don't think so, if so at least I haven't figured this out yet. On the PS3 it's easy.

Most definitely can and it's fairly easy. A quick push of the X gets the menu that gets you a menu on the left side where you can go back to the desktop. A long push of the X gets you a menu on the right side where you can shutoff a controller or shutdown the console.

Quote:

but if you want to sleep after watching a movie and are too lazy to walk to the console for turning it off, the option of doing so wirelessly may come in handy

Definitely and the 360 allows this as explained above. The single universal remote is even better. I push 1 off button and the TV, receiver, and 360 all turn off. Something you can't do with the PS3.

Quote:

and less elegant options to add infra red support to the PS3.

I was reading that somehow the PS2 controller to USB adapter can be added to the PS3. It works that way but is slow. Having to spend another $300 for a new universal remote, which is what I'd have to do, isn't an option that makes the PS3 attractive to me.

As you like the elegance of a single unit, I like the elegance of a single remote. If I have to chose 1 over the other the single remote wins for me. Why? The remote always sits out and is used daily. The units, assuming you have the space, typically have the wiring in the back which is out of sight and only an issue if one has to fix something, which ideally should be close to never. Having 2 wires more then the PS3 to do an external HD-DVD (one for power and one for USB) isn't as big an issue for my setup.

Last edited by BrianK on 08-Jan-2007 at 03:58 PM.

@MikeB

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While inserting a disc into the console you will already need to be next to the console

Since you hadn't noticed the powering off using controller thing, maybe you haven't noticed this either: In settings you can set whether to boot a disc or boot to dashboard when there's something in the drive. I prefer to boot to dashboard because it means you can watch movies, listen to music, play arcade games or actually start the game in the drive as you see fit rather than having to eject it first.

@Trezzer

Microsoft did announce IPTV on the 360 on Sunday at CES. We'll see what other niceities CES holds for the 360 this week.


@Thread
Need a PS3? According to Joystiq Best Buy's Retek Store System (RSS) is showing megalopolis' like Los Angeles are sold out, but states like Missouri, Illinois, Texas, Michigan, Minnesota are stocked and bestbuy.com is currently taking and shipping orders. Target by my work had 14 on Sunday, the kid there said all stock was on the shelf.

@BrianK

Indeed.

Quote:

IPTV, meanwhile, set to launch at Christmas, will allow you to watch TV on Xbox 360 while chatting to friends, and to play on Xbox Live while recording a TV programme in the background, among other things. Microsoft promises "instant channel zapping, a rich and responsive user interface, video on demand with branded video-on-demand storefronts, digital video recording and high-definition television".

It was also announced that more than 150000 HD-DVD add-ons have been sold (which is more than twice as many as stand-alone drives (for both HD-DVD and BluRay respectively).

The movie service is performing well. It's the second most successful digital download service right now (we don't really need to think hard to figure out which one is the most successful).

The home server was also announced and the 360 will indeed support it.

Last edited by Trezzer on 08-Jan-2007 at 04:41 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Most definitely can and it's fairly easy.

Good post! I have turned off the console before using the menu interface before. So you can't do this at the push of a button using the gamepad. IMO it would be nice to add such a feature.

An interesting quote:

"Sony is showing here new PlayStation software titles including Fomula One Championship Edition, MLB 07, MotorStorm (1080p/60fps), Lair, Heavenly Sword and Gran Turismo HD (downloadable), all for the PS3; Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters, KillZone and SOCOM: Fire Team Bravo, all for the PSP."

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6405091.html

Sure it's possible, but first I will wait for more reports.

@MikeB

Quote:

I have turned off the console before using the menu interface before. So you can't do this at the push of a button using the gamepad. IMO it would be nice to add such a feature.

Though if you have a universal remote or either of the Microsoft remotes for the 360 they have a 1 button off selection. The 360 can go to sleep after a certain period of unused time so you could do this and push no buttons.

Motorstorm in 1080p for the PS3 -- a good thing. I thought they announced this game was no longer for just the PS3. I wonder if they are going to do 1080p on the 360 they definitely could.

Last edited by BrianK on 08-Jan-2007 at 04:59 PM.

@BrianK

I seriously doubt Motorstorm is going multiplatform.

For me the best scoring announcement to come from CES so far was an announcement from Philips:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/08/philips-intros-wireless-hdmi/

(single-input and multi-input)

"Philips has announced its showing off a wireless HDMI product, based on Ultra Wideband at this year's CES. With enough bandwidth to send an uncompressed HD stream of up to 1080p resolution, the company claims its solution solves the problem of arranging components and display devices without affecting the A/V experience."

Cool!

Edit: Large 858KB gif animation removed and linked here instead. Large images slows down the threads for dialup users.

Last edited by DaveyD on 09-Jan-2007 at 12:30 AM.

@MikeB

That video clip is eerily hypnotic.

Let's give the man a wrist strap

Last edited by Trezzer on 08-Jan-2007 at 06:34 PM.

@BrianK

More Blu-ray vs HD-DVD from CES regarding North America:

Quote:

“We are looking forward to this pivotal year and the ultimate establishment of Blu-ray as the High-Definition packaged media standard. In fact, Blu-ray sales performance surpassed HD-DVD for the first time the week of December 24 and did so by an impressive 20 per cent. What’s more, by the end of the first quarter our research shows the sales gap widening to Blu-ray outselling HD-DVD by a 3.5-to-1 ratio,” said Mike Dunn, president worldwide of Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/foxbluray010807.htm

Guess innovation is irrelevant and imitation is more than sincere flattery. Oh the irony.

@MikeB

On Amazon HD-DVD is still the leading format even though BluRay has picked up its pace. It looks like both are more or less stalled for now though - as in constant sales and little growth.

@Trezzer

Looked into Motorstorm and yes it was a joke that it was coming to the 360.


@Trezzer & @MikeB
From CES the 2 consoles make up 80% of all HD players on the market.

IPTV coming to 360. It appears one can use the 360 as a DVR. Play games on Live while watching Internet TV and toggle between. Undoubtably more info will come towards Christmas 07 when the launch is ready.

IPTV is coming to Sony but not the PS3, at this time. Sony is selling 3 models of Bravia's with IPTV built in. Might be an option for someone looking to buy a new TV. Undoubtably Sony has a large catalog of movies and TV shows and could do their own IPTV with Sony IP and may in light of the coming 360 service. Could it be Microsoft is competition that's keeping Sony on their toes?

@BrianK

Quote:

It appears one can use the 360 as a DVR. Play games on Live while watching Internet TV and toggle between. Undoubtably more info will come towards Christmas 07 when the launch is ready.

It's going to be interesting. This is a very important feature, I think we can count on the Sony's PS3 to compete.

"Right now Sony CEA is focused entirely on PS3... basically on auto-pilot from [Sony's] standpoint. They have big plans for it down the road, but mainly as more of an accessory for the PS3," a source told print-only magazine PSM.

DVR functionality is going to be a big push for this thing. We don't know exactly how the video is going to get into the system, but it's a top priority for Sony," the source said. Furthermore, they said that "high def movie and TV episode downloads over the online service are a definite, kind of like the iTunes Music Store."

I think these media features are going to be interesting, maybe I too will end up using some of them, depends on the content. We in Europe always get the shorter end of the stick when it comes to content...

As for the competition, Sony does have their media empire as a plus, OTOH Microsoft is a good software company for this kind of thing. The Sony has never been too strong on the software side, the Xbox experience at the moment is far slicker than what I've seen of the Sony.

I'm just bummered that Apple isn't yet competing in all this. Now THAT would promise some good things...

@jtsiren

Quote:

As for the competition, Sony does have their media empire as a plus

Yes, it's a big plus, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment / SonyBMG will be releasing more than 100 Blu-Ray titles next year. Add to that the announcement made by Twentieth Century Fox regarding releasing between 60-120 Blu-Ray movies this year.

And add to that:
CES: Lionsgate Roars with 2007 Blu-ray Slate; Still Says No to HD DVD

"Lionsgate has become the latest studio to unveil extensive next-gen release plans at CES, promising over 40 new Blu-ray titles in 2007."

Add to that the many many new releases from MGM, Paramount Home Entertainment, Walt Disney Home Entertainment/ Buena Vista Home Entertainment and Warner Bros, it seems the Blu-Ray war drums are finally beating.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 10:47 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-Jan-2007 at 10:44 PM.

@MikeB

Lionsgate signed onto the Xbox Live movie store so need for bluray/hd-dvd there