Is it true that the specs and board layout is now free for all to produce?
Only the HAL and bootcode CAN be bought/licenced from Genesi if one want.

This how I understand the latest blogg from BBRV anyway..

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Even if it's free to produce, you still need the technology/components to do it. I.E. you won't be able to produce it from parts sold in Electronic equipments shops and little solder and mix stuff. The days of homebrew computers are gone long time ago.

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AFAIK (haven't really investigated) you *have* to license the HAL from Genesi, if you want to use the board. Add to that the fact that the board would need to be seriously re-designed in a few months, to avoid using lead (Pb) components which will soon be banned in the EU, and the Pegasos board design is pretty much useless - IMHO of course, and I'm happy to be corrected about any mistakes.

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Yep, RoHS is going to be an interesting obstacle in the world of Amiga...

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Yes,
The design is free and you license the OF/HAL if you wish to produce
and resell the board. It's much like AWARD and Pheonix do with their
x86 BIOSes.

EDIT: The firmware is optional but not licensing it would mean you have
to re-invent the wheel one more time..

Last edited by ironfist on 18-Dec-2005 at 04:25 PM.

@Samwel

It seems you have to be registered on power.org to get at it. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Reading the "join us" information finally available to define the different levels and what benefits each gets, I'm not certain that the free account level will get access to it. Free members don't get access to some specs and stuff like that, but this claims not to be a "specification", so it may fall outside that limitation, not really clear about that.

It seems it'll be available to whoever can get it in January, I'm not sure why they announced the web page now as there's nothing interesting there yet, just the expected first download date.

BBRV's initial announcement said you had to license their firmware to sell any boards you produce on this "libre" design. They later said something that sounded like they changed their mind and the firmware license was no longer an absolute requirement to produce/sell this "libre" design. ("libre" was BBRV's word from the start, even though it didn't quite seem that at first) I'd hope that in something "libre", you could put whatever the heck BIOS code you wanted in there, such as uboot or something new or whatever you wanted if for whatever reason you weren't interested in BBRV's stuff.

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@billt

Quote:

I'm not certain that the free account level will get access to it.

Free member will have access to it. You won't have any obligations, like licencing the firmware,
but I'd guess that any serious company would licence it, since it's tested&working and also supports
the most OSes.

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@Samwel
Yes it is free for use and no the licensing for the firmware is not mandatory.

What I find most troubling is what this means. To me, this means the Peg2 was a commercial failure. They couldn't find anyone willing to buy them in any significant quantity. If Genesi couldn't make it happen this isn't a good sign for the Troika effort. Will the Amy'05 end up being given away for free because it is destined to be a commercial failure? Most troubling indeed.

Kudos to Genesi for finding a way to make money out of this mess. The licensed firmware idea is a good one and credit must be given where credit is due.

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@ssolie

Quote:

ssolie wrote: What I find most troubling is what this means. To me, this means the Peg2 was a commercial failure. They couldn't find anyone willing to buy them in any significant quantity.

Either that or that the Peg served it's due and Genesi is moving ahead.

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Failure?..

Did you read their latest press release?

The know-how and experience Genesi has accumulated, as well as the Developer and User
Community that have been established by the PegasosPPC is proving useful to Power.org and
Power.org members. The contribution to Power.org will grow as Genesi moves ahead with the
release of new designs and products based on POWER in 2006, including the EFIKA, the High
Density Blade Server and the dual 970 based Open Server Workstation.

They are definately moving ahead. Just look at their recent license agreement with a provision for a minimum production quantity of 50,000 units (!!!) for the EFIKA design.

Compare that to hardware quantities the OS4 market is currently dealing with.

@ssolie

IMHO Pegasos just served it purpose and makes a fine board for developers. Now they want to make thier platform complete. Also, Genesi is successful thanks to FOSS community, too. Releasing Pegasos design is a way to share knowledge. I take it as "Thank you for hacking for and around Pegasos".

Now it's time to move forward.

Last edited by opi on 18-Dec-2005 at 09:37 PM.

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@Samwel

In summary (and if you read everyone else's post you will gather):

1) on January 9th the Pegasos II design schematics and bill of materials will be made available to Power.org members. There is no difference between a paid Power.org member and a free Power.org member when it comes to downloading the specs, but of course a paid Power.org member obviously has some benefits like other resources at Power.org and perhaps manufacturing facilities with which to make the board after sourcing the parts etc.

2) If you want to boot MorphOS or Linux on it on Day #1, you will want to license the Pegasos HAL/OF. If you do not, and want to port some other firmware, or code an OS to go into the flash directly, then off you go! The hardware design is open, and there has never been a restriction on what software to run on it (however we never supported users who tampered with the flash). Genesi sells the firmware license as an added benefit and it gives the system broad if not total compatibility with other Genesi or HAL/OF using products.

3) EXAMPLE: if Hyperion want to join and get the specs and port U-Boot and partner with someone to make PegasOS4 boards (Troika? ACK?) they obviously can. Good luck.

@ssolie

Quote:

Yes it is free for use and no the licensing for the firmware is not mandatory. What I find most troubling is what this means

Free? this i find more troubling...
Power Org page

MEMBERSHIP BENEFIT MATRIX Annual Corporate Dues
FOUNDER LEVEL$100K US
SPONSOR LEVEL$35K US
PARTICIPANT LEVEL$10K US
DEVELOPER LEVEL Free
=============
Sponsor level

Celestica Corporation, Denali Software, Genesi, HCL Technologies, Silicon Application Corporation, Sony Corporation, Teak Technologies, Venture Corporation, and Wistron.
==================================================================

Last edited by Interesting on 18-Dec-2005 at 10:16 PM.

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@Neko
Quote:

3) EXAMPLE: if Hyperion want to join and get the specs and port U-Boot and partner with someone to make PegasOS4 boards (Troika? ACK?) they obviously can. Good luck.

That would be too easy. Why make it easy if you can have it complicated?
Troika and ACK will rather deliver an own platform that is slower and will take ages to finally hit the market. That's Amiga-style

@Interesting

Yes, underline the "DEVELOPER LEVEL Free" line, as it' available to all members, INCLUDING free developer ones...

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@hatschi

Hey, here's an idea. Instead of just throwing dirt at people investing time and money on bringing new products to a ####TY community why don't you try to invest some time and money on bringing a product based on the Peg2 design with OS4 on it to us?

Right. Didn't think so. It's ALL in the big mouth.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil
Quote:

why don't you try to invest some time and money on bringing a product based on the Peg2 design with OS4 on it to us?

Simply because it's not my business. Already have a job. Thanks!

Although I am tempted - a G4 "Hatschi '06" would definately rock!

Quote:

That would be too easy. Why make it easy if you can have it complicated? Troika and ACK will rather deliver an own platform that is slower and will take ages to finally hit the market.

Provided it actually hits the market... Which isn't so sure. See Amiga's 10 past years: that's also Amigaish :)

Leo.

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@ironfist
Quote:

Failure?.. Did you read their latest press release?

Yes, I did read everything already before making my comment. Thanks.

Just because the Peg2 project was a commercial failure doesn't mean it can't be leveraged to do something else. But a failure is a failure.

To have the faith in Genesi that they really planned the Peg2 to be a commercial failure from the start is commendable but I thought we had all learned to be more skeptical than that by now.

I do salute Genesi's efforts in recovering from this and if the momentum can held up they'll have a nice little business going soon enough. Kudos! Much better than any of the other attempts so far such as Eyetech. They also failed and seem to have just given up entirely.

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