folks,

i have been wondering about this ever since joining the amiga community -- but have been very hesitant to bring it up, lest those trying to answer get drowned out by a flame-fest:

why is there such bad blood between the amigaOS and morphOS user and developer communities?

on this site, amiga.org, and other sites, the discourse can be downright vicious, including unbelievable negativity by some of the OS developers themselves. what is the history here? how did this fight get started?



if you feel you can describe the events leading to this breakdown, without resorting to insulting one side or the other, please reply. if you want to score points against one side or the other, please keep it to yourself or for other threads. i absolutely do not intend, nor want, this to spiral out of control like so many other threads.

moderators: if you think this might be too inflammatory a topic, or it becomes such, please remove the thread. i'm new here, and i only want to understand the issue, not make it worse.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

This subject would make a great follow on to "On the Edge" imho (although it would make that book look like a pamphlet).

I don't imagine that anyone will be able to give a non-partisan reply without being drowned out by pedantic disagreement over minor points.

If you want a good reply, I'd say ask someone like Number6 by PM, and see if they can be persuaded to try to summarise for you.
Maybe even ask one person from the AmigaOS devteam, and one from the MorphOS devteam - it would be an interesting comparison of perspectives imho.

Regards



Rich

EDIT: Spelling

Last edited by Boot_WB on 28-Jul-2010 at 12:09 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@eliyahu

I suppose it has something to do with the fact it runs AmigaOS software, even though no legal agreement is in place to allow this AFAIK.

Plus as an Amigafan it becomes annoying to read about what is essentially another operating system pseudo-advertising on this forum. Eg. after the Essen show had finished a new thread MorphOs thread opened up by someone posting 'yay MorphOs the fastest PPC operating system on the planet ever!' or some crap.

Thats my objective reply with no malice.

the red car and the blue car had a race, all red wanted to do was stuff his face. he eats everything he sees from trucks to prickly trees, but smart old blue he took the milky way

_________________

@eliyahu

Personally I would be interested in these reasons but only if it meant that once reasons are understood then bridges can be possibly built.

Perhaps somebody who REALLY knows from each camp could document and we can view without comments being made starting a flame war. Then like most things, others can try and resolve these problems over time.

It seems that most of the problems started years ago and mostly between a very small group of people on each side, this has then escalated and this is where we are now.

However, in this thread is probably not a good idea because it will degenerate.

_________________
Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus
http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

@eliyahu

Trolls are everywhere...

However, there are some nice people in both camps - eg. Luky (Lukas Stehlik), leading spirit of Czech Pegasos User Group, devotes its page to both AmigaOS and MorphOS (no one did more for MorphOS community in the Czech Republic).

Sadly, such form of cooperation is not that common.

@clusteruk

I often think both "camps" have forgotten in the meanwhile WHY all this started. Now it has become a tradition. I suppose even the grand childs of the camps will fight each other - 2035 anyone?

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@djrikki

Perhaps you misunderstood the thread.

The thread was actually about MorphOS "on the fastest PPC consumer computer" (ie referring to the speed of the hardware, not the relative speed of the OS).

Often in our community it seems to be the little misinterpretations which are blown out of proportion into a flamewar.

btw - what legal agreement are you talking about? If an OS runs software, why would that require a legal agreement with anyone? Do Hyperion/Bochs authors have a legal agreement with Microsoft to allow Windows compatibility?

EDIT: Speeling & me make grammar good now.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 28-Jul-2010 at 12:24 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@eliyahu

The Red vs Blue is because both of them are fighting for survival on the shoulders of very tiny user base. If there were 200 000 users, nobody would care about 1000 or 2000 persons going to the other side. But now there are less than 1000 active Amiga users, and the fight is for every user. That is why when someone asks for honest opinion about MorphOS or AmigaOS and an actual user provides such opinion, users for the other camp jump in to prove him wrong. They can not afford to lose a single user. They must grow.

_________________
Games, programs, reviews

@eliyahu

The following may offer some clues...

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

_________________
"We live, we die, we laugh, we cry"

@drHirudo

Quote:

But now there are less than 1000 active Amiga users,

Where do you get that number from? I read somewhere that between 250-300 persons visted the Amiga Essen Show last weekend - so 1/3 of all amigans was attending the show...?

_________________
Maintainer of www.bigbookofamigahardware.com

@eliyahu I like the fact that you want to learn the community, and your question should teach us a valuable lesson. How do outside or new users view the Amiga community? I don't know enough accurate information to document the 'fallout' of the community, so I won't even attempt to do it.

All I can offer is that you enjoy the Amiga experience, whatever that means to you, and try to ignore the flamethrowers. The Amiga community would best served with one Banner OS where all sides could be in the same sandbox, but (from what little I know) it is not possible.

@clusteruk, that is a tremendous idea and I hope more users work towards building bridges.


Matt

@drHirudo

Quote:

The Red vs Blue is because both of them are fighting for survival on the shoulders of very tiny user base. If there were 200 000 users, nobody would care about 1000 or 2000 persons going to the other side.

What drHirudo said plus

a) it's part of our culture, from football clubs, political parties, cities, computer platforms to religion and food.

b) it's a question of "style". There are certain things on both platform that sends people standing on the other side into "I need to correct that". To quote Chief Bureaucrat from Futurama: "You're technically correct, Herems. And that's the best type of being correct."

Anyway, I think it's way better now than it uesd to be in ANN times. We still argue but it's more about "style" and less about "your mom".

Last edited by opi on 28-Jul-2010 at 12:40 PM.

_________________
OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

@eliyahu

Because PowerUP people went to make MorphOS and WarpOS people went to make OS4 they can not love each others Ten years ago PUP vs WUP war was running on all fronts even though PUP nor WUP were running on nothing

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Boot_WB
Quote:

This subject would make a great follow on to "On the Edge" imho (although it would make that book look like a pamphlet).

Would that be called "Over the Edge"?

@djrikki
Quote:

I suppose it has something to do with the fact it runs AmigaOS software, even though no legal agreement is in place to allow this AFAIK.

On the other hand, that's something that no "legal agreement" is needed for. If it was needed, we would no longer have projects, such as WINE.
There's agreement with authors of various 3rd party components, such as MUI, TurboPrint that are part of the OS release, something you of course need agreement for.

Also, during the early development of MorphOS, Classic AmigaOS was clearly announced dead by Amiga inc. so it's uncertain if any "legal agreement" could have been formed in any case.

-EDIT-

Maybe we are fighting because there is not enough Atari users left to fight againist?

Last edited by Jupp3 on 28-Jul-2010 at 12:47 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 28-Jul-2010 at 12:45 PM.

I KNOW IT!!!
Because them both are screaming higher than the other to be bought by SONY!!!
"...And that day the japanese messiah'll open up its CELL and there'll be space in heaven for only one of them..." (misrevelations, 2; 1)

@Jupp3

Quote:

Maybe we are fighting because there is not enough Atari users left to fight againist?

Common enemy would help. It always integrate societies in hatred.

_________________
OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

@djrikki

Quote:

djrikki wrote: Plus as an Amigafan it becomes annoying to read about what is essentially another operating system pseudo-advertising on this forum. Eg. after the Essen show had finished a new thread MorphOs thread opened up by someone posting 'yay MorphOs the fastest PPC operating system on the planet ever!' or some crap.

As a start you could avoid reading threads where MorphOS is discussed. I seldom read OS4 threads or MorphOS threads because they're almost never of any interest to me.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Manu

Good idea. Rise above it.

motto of the day: if sodastream can come back from they dead', why can't Amiga =PP

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@djrikki

Not only is it a good idea, it's the best idea.

But if people want to flame each others threads just for the fun of it and while there at it make a fool of them selves who can stop them, really ? At least it will be plain laughable to any new member that signs up here for any of the Amiga like systems.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

There should be a reorganization with AOS and MOS, so that the Amiga may go up a division against the rest of the world (AROS).