Seems to me Amiga Inc resorts a hell of a lot to the American law syetem rather than perform in the market place. Well believe it or not other countries have legal systems too.

In the current dispute can Hyperion call witnesses or seek written or witnessed submissions from Amiga Inc/Eyetech/Hyperions customers from around the world.

For instance as a recipient of HW which now Amiga Inc does not classify as an AmigaOne why did Amiga inc not take rectifying action much earlier, or void the so called contract in 2003, thereby leaving persons open to purchasing more products that were not covered as stipulated. Why did Amiga Inc engage with that community without stipulating their case and as such endorse the situation. Why did Amiga Inc err for so so so long???

ace

@acefnq

lol.. Not suggesting Consumers vs Amiga Inc are you?

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@acefnq

One could think that Amiga Inc waited until Hyperion finished OS4, because it is much cheaper to let others do your work for free.

I also very much doubt that Amiga Inc have the knowledge to produce a single piece of software by them self.

It would have been nice of them to tell me a bit before, that my AmigaOne XE is not Amiga a bit before...

@BinoX

possibly -:)

ace

@acefnq

Quote:

acefnq wrote: For instance as a recipient of HW which now Amiga Inc does not classify as an AmigaOne why did Amiga inc not take rectifying action much earlier, or void the so called contract in 2003, thereby leaving persons open to purchasing more products that were not covered as stipulated. Why did Amiga Inc engage with that community without stipulating their case and as such endorse the situation. Why did Amiga Inc err for so so so long???

Ace,

You keep preaching this with no backup. If what has you wound up is paragraph 22 of McEwens deposition, he is NOT saying the Teron board you bought from Eyetech with OS4 is not an AmigaOne. He is saying that buying a Teron board from Acube (or anyone else) and then buying OS4 doesnt make it an AmigaOne. Hyperion doesnt have the right to sell OS4 to Teron boards, thats what this is about. Bouma has been arguing that AmigaOne is a Teron with OS4 for years and noone argues with him now McEwen says it and everyone thinks he's wrong.
-Tig

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@Tigger

Quote:

If what has you wound up is paragraph 22 of McEwens deposition, he is NOT saying the Teron board you bought from Eyetech with OS4 is not an AmigaOne. He is saying that buying a Teron board from Acube (or anyone else) and then buying OS4 doesnt make it an AmigaOne. Hyperion doesnt have the right to sell OS4 to Teron boards, thats what this is about. Bouma has been arguing that AmigaOne is a Teron with OS4 for years and noone argues with him now McEwen says it and everyone thinks he's wrong. -Tig

If you're right about what he indended to say, someone screwed up. The document says that Amigaone SE/XE and MicroA1 motherboards are not Amigaones and that machines built with these boards are not Amigaones. Nowhere does the document state that this excludes the ones already sold with Amiga OS4. Therefore, according to the wording of the document, all Amigaone motherboards are not Amigaones and machines built with them are not Amigaones.

Hans

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@acefnq

Quote:

For instance as a recipient of HW which now Amiga Inc does not classify as an AmigaOne why did Amiga inc not take rectifying action much earlier,

There was a dispute between Amiga Inc. and Eyetech regarding the MicroA1 not being a part of the licensing agreement, it just wasn't public knowledge.

Adam

Quote:

Hans wrote: @Tigger If you're right about what he indended to say, someone screwed up. The document says that Amigaone SE/XE and MicroA1 motherboards are not Amigaones and that machines built with these boards are not Amigaones. Nowhere does the document state that this excludes the ones already sold with Amiga OS4. Therefore, according to the wording of the document, all Amigaone motherboards are not Amigaones and machines built with them are not Amigaones.

No Hans, thats not what it says. Go to Paragraph 22, and just read Paragraph 22. Its quite clear that this is all about not allowing Acube to distribute OS4 to what Hyperion is calling the AmigaOne (MicroA1, XE/SE). Understand that every AmigaOne already has OS 4.0 according to the 2001 contract. Thats why there are no royalties for OS 4.0 from Hyperion for AmigaOnes, because Eyetech paid royalties (which covered the software royalty) directly to Amiga Inc. So there is nothing for Acube to distribute, everyone who bought an AmigaOne, paid for OS4, nothing besides the AmigaOne has been licensed to use OS4. The entire paragraph is about the March 27, 2007 announcement, reading it into there never was an AmigaOne or that you dont have an AmigaOne isnt a correct assessment and has lead to over a dozen threads about it on the various boards. In march before the lawsuit came up I suggested that Acube announcement could be taken that either Hyperion was going to sell a 4.1 through them to the Teron boards or had found some more Teron boards and was going to try and sell them as AmigaOnes. Hyperion doesnt have the right according to the original contract to do that, and can't also doesnt have the right to make Acube there distributer for that effort.
-Tig

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@ackcontrls

Quote:

ackcontrls wrote: @acefnq Quote: For instance as a recipient of HW which now Amiga Inc does not classify as an AmigaOne why did Amiga inc not take rectifying action much earlier, There was a dispute between Amiga Inc. and Eyetech regarding the MicroA1 not being a part of the licensing agreement, it just wasn't public knowledge.

Actually I've know about it for a very long time, but that has nothing to do with this section. Paragraph 22 is about Acube/Hyperion alliance and the comment that Acube was going to distribute OS4 for computers that by the license agreement all already have OS4. Everyone that doesnt is a check that AI didnt get, that plus the fact AI didnt approve licensing is why this is in the document.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: No Hans, thats not what it says. Go to Paragraph 22, and just read Paragraph 22. Its quite clear that this is all about not allowing Acube to distribute OS4 to what Hyperion is calling the AmigaOne (MicroA1, XE/SE). Understand that every AmigaOne already has OS 4.0 according to the 2001 contract. Thats why there are no royalties for OS 4.0 from Hyperion for AmigaOnes, because Eyetech paid royalties (which covered the software royalty) directly to Amiga Inc. So there is nothing for Acube to distribute, everyone who bought an AmigaOne, paid for OS4, nothing besides the AmigaOne has been licensed to use OS4. The entire paragraph is about the March 27, 2007 announcement, reading it into there never was an AmigaOne or that you dont have an AmigaOne isnt a correct assessment and has lead to over a dozen threads about it on the various boards. In march before the lawsuit came up I suggested that Acube announcement could be taken that either Hyperion was going to sell a 4.1 through them to the Teron boards or had found some more Teron boards and was going to try and sell them as AmigaOnes. Hyperion doesnt have the right according to the original contract to do that, and can't also doesnt have the right to make Acube there distributer for that effort. -Tig

I've reread it and still come to the same conclusion. You're extrapolating and drawing inferences based on additional information that is not in that paragraph, and not even in the legal document. If you're right, they're still going to have to explain the error/misleading-statement in this legal document.

Teron boards cannot be sold as Amigaones because they have not been branded as Amigaones (something that requires a license from Amiga Inc.). I'm not sure what Hyperion and ACube are planning to sell to Amigaone owners as we all have Amiga OS4. There was a suggestion somewhere that if we wanted a boxed version (as opposed to the download we have), possibly including a manual of some sort, we'd have to buy it. Under the license agreement, Hyperion is allowed to market & distribute OS4 (including any updates they make) to "target hardware", which includes the Amigaone (explicitly stated in the agreement. Hence, selling existing Amigaone owners un upgrade or boxed (i.e., non OEM version) od OS4 is within the agreement. In fact, seeing as ACK's hardware is "PPC hardware developed and marketed for the Amiga platform", it could also be seen as "target-hardware" covered by the agreement. Hence they are allowed to sell copies for that hardware too.

If the license was terminated, then Hyperion aren't allowed to distribute anything. Hyperion are going to have to prove that Amiga Inc. incorrectly cancelled the license, i.e., that they hadn't broken the contract prior to 21 November 2006. Having said that, Amiga Inc. may have a point about not being allowed to sub-contract marketing/distribution without their consent. Annex II seems to be missing from the documentation. It'll be interesting to see what Hyperion have to say.

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

I'm not sure what Hyperion and ACube are planning to sell to Amigaone owners as we all have Amiga OS4.

Actually some people did not get registered by their dealers for OS4. I was one and I know of others. Also some people bought second hand AmigaOnes and found they did not have OS4 or could not get updates, the reason being that Hyperion was not up to doing anything about it unless Rogue intervened (under protest) as he did for me. That's the trouble with a "Shell" company.

Noel

@acefnq

I think Amiga had enough problems, money and legal to do to much about it. I am sure, as the court statements reveal, that Amiga asked Hyperion repeatedly for the source code over this period. I just dont think Amiga had the money to do anything legal about it.

Also, regarding the AmigaOnes, I would have thought that voiding the 2001 contract would ineffect have dropped the classification of the Boards being AmigaOne's.

@acefnq

Maybe theIr bored of not doing anything else...

Last edited by debrun on 03-May-2007 at 01:29 AM.

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@acefnq

If my AmigaOne SE-G4 is not an AmigaOne _and_ Amiga is owner and
protector of such trademarks I would like to be able to ask the
judge/jury/Amiga Inc. why there was no notice on Amiga Inc.
site of fraudulent hardware and a suggested remedy. If they ever
truly cared about desktop why would they not protect their (potential)
customers. A bit too late to care now?

Nathan

@NathanH

Again guys paragraph 22 is all about Exhibit I, nothing else, if you spent half the time you are spending now worrying about Amiga Inc saying your boards arent Amigaones (which they actually didnt say) understanding what the issues actually are the website owners would have far fewer messages. Notice Eyetech isnt referenced in the paragraph at all, its a rebuttal paragraph about Acube and them becoming a distributer. This is what caused the issue.

"Within the framework of the partnership Acube will act as a worldwide distributer of Hyperion's Amiga OS 4.0 operating system for a range of PPC hardware platforms including AmigaOne(MicroA1, XE/SE) and classic Amiga."

First of all this implies hardware beyond A1s and classic amigas, second of all in March 2007, Hyperions license to do anything with OS 4.0 is over, and they never had the ability to make ACube a distributer. Secondly, Hyperion doesnt have the right to sell anything OS 4.0 based to AmigaOne owners. Every AmigaOne owner has a license for OS 4.0, selling them anythng else based on Amigas IP requires a new license from Amiga. In addition, I suggested months ago when ACube came up with new Teron PPC cards that it was possible someone had a bunch of Teron boards and might be trying to sell them post Eyetech. IF so, these boards arent really AmigaOnes, AmigaOnes are Terons sold by Eyetech with a license for OS4 (a license that Amiga Inc gets a royalty on), ACube cant sell Terons and call them Amigaones anymore then Genesi or I could.
-Tig

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@Tigger

Quote:

... if you spent half the time you are spending now worrying about Amiga Inc saying your boards arent Amigaones (which they actually didnt say) understanding what the issues actually are the website owners would have far fewer messages.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to annoy you.

And, I didn't realize that minimizing the quantity of messages was our goal here.

Nathan

@Tigger

Quote:

if you spent half the time you are spending now worrying about Amiga Inc saying your boards arent Amigaones (which they actually didnt say) understanding what the issues actually are the website owners would have far fewer messages

I understand your frustration, it can't be easy defending these people.

Page 9, McEwen declaration:
Quote:

The MicroA1 and SE/SX are motherboards. They are not AmigaOne, and any computers built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne.

Why not just look for the truth. It is much easier.

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@JackAttack

Quote:

JackAttack wrote: @Tigger I understand your frustration, it can't be easy defending these people. Page 9, McEwen declaration: Quote: The MicroA1 and SE/SX are motherboards. They are not AmigaOne, and any computers built with these motherboards would not be an AmigaOne. Why not just look for the truth. It is much easier.

MicroA1 and SE/SX are just motherboards, in fact they are Teron motherboards. They are only AmigaOnes is they were sourced from Eyetech and came with a license for OS4, that and the Acube announcement is what this is all about.

I'm not defending them, I just know how to read a court depo. Do you see mention of Eyetech or anything like that in Paragraph 22. No you dont. Paragraph 22 is written in response to Exhibit I (which deals exclusively with the Acube/Hyperion press release), go read the Exhibit, the go to Paragraph 22. Everything mentioned there is quoted from Exhibit I. It is a plan to block Acube from illegally selling OS 4.0 to AmigaOnes, illegally making new AmigaOnes and distributing OS 4.0 to new PPC hardware all of which are mentioned in the the press release which is part of Exhibit I. Print out I, print out Paragraph 22, look at how Paragraph 22 mentions every key point of Exhibit I that because Paragraph 22 is about Exhibit I and how it violates there rights, and nothing else.
-Tig

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