Quote:

1) Do you think there is a market for Yet Anotehr OS on the desktop? ( ) Yes ( ) No

I've been following the thread without comment so far, but this is troubling me.
If the developer says no to question #1, then why are we here?
More accuratly, a comfortable OS on a laptop is my personal favorite.
Desktops are fading, and handhelds are too small for graphics work.
Amiga won't be safe in any market, including embedded. Compete, and compete well.
If you do, the revenue will come. Even if it's in the form of a MS buyout.

Plaz

@nicholas

Quote:

For what reason would a business that requires an embedded OS choose to pay licence fees for a proprietary operating system such as OS4/MorphOS, when they could use GNU/Linux or a BSD operating system for so much less TCO, or even an already established realtime proprietary OS such as VxWorks or QNX?

The TCO for a proprietary OS is LESS than Linux, and the responsibility is laid on the OS vendor, NOT the OEM or H/W manufacturer. The Palm or Psion PDA's have proprietary Os's and OEM's use PocketPC.

Please go to any computer shop and ask for a PDA with Linux as the OS, most will look at you with a blank expression, or laugh. There is no REAL support for linux on PDA's and only marginal support in the embedded market.

As for VxWorks, QNX plus many more embedded OS's, you have a point, but adding one more OS for competition is good. Hyperion might believe they have some unique feature the other OS's don't. Their licensing might be more competitive, etc.

Cheers,
Tim

@EntilZha

Quote:

Yes, they would. Because everybody would use Windows, anyway. The idea of having Amiga developers compete against Windows is ridiculous. If people don't get software for AmigaOS, they use the Windows counterparts. Add to this a Windows emulator running on AmigaOS/x86, and you basically kill every commercial software development. See Linux: Wine basically killed off the whole Linux games market. There are next to no Linux games compaines left. Hyperion used to do Linux ports, as well as Loki (a very big company, mind you), Tribsoft, etc.

Crap.

My game budget in the last year:

PS2: 300e
MOS: 0e
AOS: 0e

Funny, eh? I'm trying to spend few euros on MOS/AOS software but in the end I find myself spending my money on the latest PS2 games. I'm still trying to save money for Papyrus office but I bought GTA SA and Flatout immediately when they were available. That makes you think...

I've to say I'm not particularly interested in x86 but the truth is AOS (and MOS) is already competing against Windows and OSX and Linux. If it wasnt why users moved to other OS'es at all?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@T_Power

Quote:

T_Power wrote: @nicholas Quote: For what reason would a business that requires an embedded OS choose to pay licence fees for a proprietary operating system such as OS4/MorphOS, when they could use GNU/Linux or a BSD operating system for so much less TCO, or even an already established realtime proprietary OS such as VxWorks or QNX? The TCO for a proprietary OS is LESS than Linux, and the responsibility is laid on the OS vendor, NOT the OEM or H/W manufacturer. The Palm or Psion PDA's have proprietary Os's and OEM's use PocketPC. Please go to any computer shop and ask for a PDA with Linux as the OS, most will look at you with a blank expression, or laugh. There is no REAL support for linux on PDA's and only marginal support in the embedded market. As for VxWorks, QNX plus many more embedded OS's, you have a point, but adding one more OS for competition is good. Hyperion might believe they have some unique feature the other OS's don't. Their licensing might be more competitive, etc. Cheers, Tim

All I want to know is the reasons Hyperion (Or MOSTeam in the case of MorphOS) believe their OS offers better value than existing solutions.

No one seems to want to say.

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@nicholas

Quote:

All I want to know is the reasons Hyperion (Or MOSTeam in the case of MorphOS) believe their OS offers better value than existing solutions.

In one phrase: the power of a desktop OS with the requirements of a PDA

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@nicholas

Quote:

All I want to know is the reasons Hyperion (Or MOSTeam in the case of MorphOS) believe their OS offers better value than existing solutions. No one seems to want to say.

I doubt they even know themselves.

_________________
- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote: @nicholas Quote: All I want to know is the reasons Hyperion (Or MOSTeam in the case of MorphOS) believe their OS offers better value than existing solutions. In one phrase: the power of a desktop OS with the requirements of a PDA

One word for you.

QNX

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@T_Power

Quote:

The TCO for a proprietary OS is LESS than Linux,

Who told you that story, Microsoft?

Last edited by falemagn on 27-Jun-2005 at 11:13 PM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@nicholas

Quote:

All I want to know is the reasons Hyperion (Or MOSTeam in the case of MorphOS) believe their OS offers better value than existing solutions.

Unfortunately for Amiga supporters it would not be wise for Hyperion to lay their business plans out for ALL to see on any public forum. That would be bad business. Competitors with deeper pockets and larger dev. teams would just love to step into those possible markets.

So don't expect any answers to those type of questions.

Cheers,
Tim

P.S. Hyperion are doing the work for the LOVE of the platform, but most definitely wish to make a business success of it in the end.

@falemagn

Quote:

@T_Power Quote: The TCO for a proprietary OS is LESS than Linux, Who told you that story, Microsoft?

Most definitely not Micro$oft, I despise Gates's business practices.

That conclusion is from my own experience. Because of my dislike for MS I have convinced some friends to switch to linux, and whenever things need setting up or installation, upgrades, problems, etc..
Who do you think they ask to help out.
I wish I had just shut-up and left them with Windoze. Linux is not, not, NOT ready for the desktop and "Joe Bloggs" user.

Cheers,
Tim

P.S. SuSE 9.2 Pro on all systems.

@T_Power

Quote:

T_Power wrote: @falemagn Quote: @T_Power Quote: The TCO for a proprietary OS is LESS than Linux, Who told you that story, Microsoft? Most definitely not Micro$oft, I despise Gates's business practices. That conclusion is from my own experience. Because of my dislike for MS I have convinced some friends to switch to linux, and whenever things need setting up or installation, upgrades, problems, etc.. Who do you think they ask to help out. I wish I had just shut-up and left them with Windoze. Linux is not, not, NOT ready for the desktop and "Joe Bloggs" user. Cheers, Tim P.S. SuSE 9.2 Pro on all systems.

So Linux not being ready for the desktop makes the TCO of "Linux for Toasters" more than "WindowsCE for Toasters"?

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@T_Power

Quote:

T_Power wrote: @nicholas Quote: All I want to know is the reasons Hyperion (Or MOSTeam in the case of MorphOS) believe their OS offers better value than existing solutions. Unfortunately for Amiga supporters it would not be wise for Hyperion to lay their business plans out for ALL to see on any public forum. That would be bad business. Competitors with deeper pockets and larger dev. teams would just love to step into those possible markets. So don't expect any answers to those type of questions. Cheers, Tim P.S. Hyperion are doing the work for the LOVE of the platform, but most definitely wish to make a business success of it in the end.

Saying why one product is more suitable than another product for a given task is not "Laying out business plans for all to see".

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@Rogue

Quote:

2) Do you think that in the embedded market space x86 has any significance

x86 has *always* had more significance in the embedded market space than PPC. That trend was reversing untill recently though, but it's slowed down and actually reversed now due to renewed efforts by Intel, Via, AMD, Transmeta, etc.

If you're concerned with "significance* in the embedded market, ARM would give you better significance.



However, even if you're betting PPC will become more significant than the industry suggests compared to x86, you'd probably need to also take into consideration that the hardware's ability to run Linux is a major factor.

Last edited by T_Bone on 28-Jun-2005 at 01:39 AM.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@T_Bone

How dare you publish real facts and figures!

OT: ps How did you get on with the UnLoadDLL from RAM stuff i sent you?

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@T_Power

Quote:

T_Power wrote: @falemagn Quote: @T_Power Quote: The TCO for a proprietary OS is LESS than Linux, Who told you that story, Microsoft? Most definitely not Micro$oft, I despise Gates's business practices. That conclusion is from my own experience. Because of my dislike for MS I have convinced some friends to switch to linux, and whenever things need setting up or installation, upgrades, problems, etc.. Who do you think they ask to help out. I wish I had just shut-up and left them with Windoze. Linux is not, not, NOT ready for the desktop and "Joe Bloggs" user. Cheers, Tim P.S. SuSE 9.2 Pro on all systems.

That's probably not relevant to embedded OS's though, not many soccermoms run an embedded OS that they need software installed into.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@nicholas

Quote:

nicholas wrote: OT: ps How did you get on with the UnLoadDLL from RAM stuff i sent you?

Worked great, thanks! Camtasia studio is able to run without pushing the other app out causing it to redraw on screen during the presentation.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote: @nicholas Quote: nicholas wrote: OT: ps How did you get on with the UnLoadDLL from RAM stuff i sent you? Worked great, thanks! Camtasia studio is able to run without pushing the other app out causing it to redraw on screen during the presentation.

Excellent.

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote: Quote: 1) Do you think there is a market for Yet Anotehr OS on the desktop? ( ) Yes ( ) No I've been following the thread without comment so far, but this is troubling me. If the developer says no to question #1, then why are we here?

My thoughts exactly. I wasn't a happy camper when Alan said that the likelyhood of there being more "desktop" AmigaOnes was low, but I half-expected that and we still had the "mystery device" and ACK boards. Now we have one of the guys who's part of the OS "inner circle" basically saying that one would be nuts to sell a desktop OS. That tells me that the planned evolution of AmigaOS is away from the desktop and into cellphones and such. I must say I'm starting to understand what all those Mac owners felt like when Steve Jobs dropped the x86 bomb. Hyperion aren't worried about lack of desktop hardware, because they've decided that they want to target a different market altogether. Well, more power to them. I personally like using my desktop computer and will continue to buy desktop and/or laptop systems. I've owned two PDAs, and didn't enjoy the experience at all - the screen was too small and the form factor just didn't lend itself to the device being a lot more than a smart diary/address book/mp3 player. I don't see how running AmigaOS instead of PalmOS or WindowsCE would change that.

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: @glokraw Quote: glokraw wrote: @Helgis ... that Hyperion slave away at OS4 for a few hundred 15 year old cyberstorms and blizzards as their sales target, simply defies reality, logic, and common sense. ... 1) Some posts earlier in this thread it had been mentioned by "Hyperionmp", that there had been sold between 6000 and 10000 PPC accelerator boards: Quote: Hyperionmp wrote: ... Hyperion also doesn't need any lectures from anybody on customer support because one of the reasons for going PPC is exactly because of all these thousands of people paying good money for PPC accelerators. Between 6000 to 10000 if you must know. To me this appears to be significantly more than "a few hundred"... 2) 15 year old cyberstorms and blizzards? You're exaggerating excessively! For your information: I bought one of the very first ever sold Phase5-CyberstormPPC boards on the first day they were first-time publically available: On the Amiga fair 1997 in Cologne. If I didn't unlearn to calculate, this means the CSPPC are best 7 1/2 years old (the Blizzards even younger, as CSPPC was availabe first, IIRC), and not 15 years! Please stay with the facts/truth - we already have enough confusion here!

My mistake in wording, but most will have realised the systems with those cybers
and blizzards are generally about that old, and get the drift. I will be more careful of wording in the future. As to the 6000-10000, I 'hope' for sales of at least 1000, but
hope is not a business plan. I predict hundreds, and 'hope' for the future port
to available new hardware, Mac included.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

factor just didn't lend itself to the device being a lot more than a smart diary/address book/mp3 player. I don't see how running AmigaOS instead of PalmOS or WindowsCE would change that.

We definitly agree. There's already plenty of other handhelp enbedded stuff out there.
Any market is going to require a competive marketing strategy. I can understand
why Amiga Inc and Hyperion would want to focus on these markets, but I can't follow
the stategy of developing a desktop OS, while at the same time saying there is no
market for it. They've worked hard and done a good job. Are OS4 users just to be
beta testers for the embedded systems to come then?
And we hear anyone is free to license AOS, but why wasn't there reply from A.Inc to
Acill's request for a port to Peg. Even a 'No' I could understand. A "No Reply" is confusing.


Plaz