@AmigaBlitter

In the IRC-Chat around Christmas when everybody was speculating if OS4 final will be released, Hyperion said that there is no "OS4 final" because there is no hardware.
It would make no impact and a bad news item on internet sites such as Slashdot when the OS is released but no hardware available.

My question is now what hardware qualifies for that? Just a speculation:
Adam sorted out the CPU-connector issue and the Powervixxen is released in June, yet there is no sign of any other hardware (Amy).

Would an extension card for the A1200/A3k/A4k qualify as "new hardware" for the release of OS4 final? Would this make any better impression on those hardware sites and on users ouside the Amiga scene?
If OS4 final is bundled/released together with a Powervixxen, will it also be available for Classic PPC at that time? What's the plan with the Classic PPC version, how is it proceeding? It would certainly be a nice oasis in the desert. (Developers, developers, developers!).

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@polka.

Quote:

polka. wrote: @Hans Quote: You do realise that timelines for software projects are generally a load of BS, right from the start. You cannot predict the amount of time required with any accuracy. I generally agree on that. A few months over the schedule is nothing special or extra-ordinary, just look at computer game companies. OTOH, software projects require a sane and reasonable timeline, at least one that is not exceeded by more than 5 years. Otherwise you simply run out of money since development costs will kill you without having any revenue.

looking at the most famous WIP game, Duke Nukem Forever, it has been in dev for 7 years, and they havnt gone out of business as they do other work on the side. Hyperion also do other work on the side.

Of course this could be as good as getting laods of monies to have it done RealSoonNow, or to keep dev going indefinitely (again look at DNF as an example)

The best comparison between OS4 and DNF are what Hyperion and 3DRealms say when ppl want to know timeslines.. all together now !!!

When Its Done!

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@polka.

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Just a speculation

This is a crucial point. Only speculation but no real information and certainties.
A fresh new amount of real and proven information could be like fresh water in the desert.
At the moment, there is only confusion. Who are producing what and when? Is it real?

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 19-Apr-2006 at 03:09 PM.

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@AmigaBlitter
Quote:

This is a crucial point. Only speculation but no real information and certainties.

Therefore our questions...

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@polka.

Don't despair. Hope someoneof the vip peoples is reading.

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im amazed that people just dont understand this sometimes. the reason why these threads start is that there is nothing new to be said. what do you want people to say? that everything is the same as it was last week?

the sooner everyone just stops trying to second guess whats going to happen next (good or bad) and just work with whats available, people will just enjoy things more.

reminds me of people saying 'just think what i could do if i won the lottery tomorrow' or 'if only i chose to go into a different profession all those years ago my life would have been better' etc.

my advice? dont get stuck in 'what-ifs'

IMHO of course...

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@Derfs

Anything's better than real life.

Maybe that's why people express what they write here.

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@Derfs

LOL - It's true, but it's not a negative exercise.

Quote:

everyone just stops trying to second guess whats going to happen next

But, you know, we have a Crystall Ball and we cannot see anything.

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@polka.

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Would an extension card for the A1200/A3k/A4k qualify as "new hardware" for the release of OS4 final?

I am sure it won't!

IMHO - OS4 will only get officially released on standalone hardware.

However this doesn't matter - it's just semantics - as long as the ("licensed") hardware gets built we will have OS4 available for whoever wants it.

And that's what we want, isn't it?

@Colin_Camper
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However this doesn't matter - it's just semantics - as long as the ("licensed") hardware gets built we will have OS4 available for whoever wants it.

Agreed. That's why the argument "OS4 for Classic PPC should not be released before any stand-alone version, because it would kill all the momentum" seems very bogus to me.

Get that Classic PPC version out, even if it does not qualify to be labeled with the "final" tag. Geez, A1 users started with half-broken platforms running a crippled Linux. Just put a disclaimer somewhere that "SCSI-support is not fully implemented yet but will be added soon as a free upgrade" or something similar.

Last edited by polka. on 19-Apr-2006 at 04:20 PM.

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Quote:

polka. wrote: @Colin_Camper Quote: However this doesn't matter - it's just semantics - as long as the ("licensed") hardware gets built we will have OS4 available for whoever wants it. Agreed. That's why the argument "OS4 for Classic PPC should not be released before any stand-alone version, because it would kill all the momentum" seems very bogus to me. Get that Classic PPC version out, even if it does not qualify to be labeled with the "final" tag. Geez, A1 users started with half-broken platforms running a crippled Linux. Just put a disclaimer somewhere that "SCSI-support is not fully implemented yet but will be added soon as a free upgrade" or something similar.

Now we are talking
WOSPUPOS4 for the ppl! (classic users that is)

@WOSPUPOS4

Another reason that was given to the "Why no Classic PPC OS4 yet?" question was that there is no way to "support" it at the moment (if I remember correctly).

Most of the support is done on the forums anyway, isn't it? Why would you develop an OS if you can't release it later on because you can't "support" it?

Last edited by polka. on 19-Apr-2006 at 05:15 PM.

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@all,

Just a quick post to express my opinion about the situation as for myself I think that sometimes there's some missunderstanding what's going on. (I read this forums since 5 years, so I think to have the base for what I'm going to say).

Developments for Amiga, Soft- & Hardware are for sure not undertaken for immediate business reasons but for individually motivations. Aim is to take alive a platform + os that, at its first appereance, was miles ahead of everything existing. This means that it is much more difficult to give timelines, fixed dates and all the rest. For the moment and the next future this remains a niche market, if I read posts about dreaming to become better than Apple I can really not understand it, as it is not possible. How many motherboards + os4 could be sold? 1000, 2000? Also if advertising and marketing should start (I don't believe because it's much too expensive) how many more are expecting to sell? Other 2000 boards? Classic support, with PPC card and os4, 2000 or 3000? It's possible to have an installed userbase of 5000 or let it be also 10000, is this more than 0,0001% of the market? I don't think so. I'm just saying that to ask people to not to be to insistent and not to expect to much in short time. People is working on Hard- & Software and as some hints from insiders are saying, new products will be out in 2006. End of the story. I also think instead of talking about the creation about funding for development and so on, the best an Amiga fellower can do in the meantime is to support developers by donating, Jamiga, Browser ports ecc. As anybody knows, every OS is only as good as the apps you can run with it ...

Like others said before, just my 5 cents,

Ciao
naz

@Naz

if the things are as you say, there are no reason for Hyperion and the others to continue. But Naz, i'm sure, is not as you say. A market is created with the time and sacrifice.

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 19-Apr-2006 at 09:23 PM.

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@polka.

I agree. The way I look at it, the more people are coding and porting what they have for their classic Amigas to OS4 the better, and they can only do this if they have OS 4 on the classic w/PPC board systems tha they have now. Also, I'm sure that a small influx of cash from the sale of these copies couldn't hurt Hyperion.

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@Naz

Although I agree with most of what you're saying with regards to supporting developpers by donating, which I have, am and will continue to do so, there is a potentially large base of developers stuck with classic systems, some of them with PPC cards but with no possible way to get their hands on OS4 so that they can start porting their previous work and/or creating new stuff for OS4. The larger the pool of developers, and users testing all this stuff for that matter, the better. This is why I support and encourage Hyperion to just release and sell OS4 to owners of classic systems with PPC cards now rather than wait for some magical hardware to save the day.

I would imagine that having a larger base of applications ready for the platform when the OS is more generally available and when new PPC hardware is available is a desireable thing tha would help in building momentum.

Just my 5 cents worth as well. :^)

Last edited by elatour on 19-Apr-2006 at 09:28 PM.

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@elatour

> there is a potentially large base of developers stuck with classic systems,
> some of them with PPC cards but with no possible way to get their hands on OS4
> so that they can start porting their previous work and/or creating new stuff for OS4.

AFAIK its possible to sign an NDA and to develop for OS4 without an AmigaOne.
E.g. TypeManager was build on a CSPPC.

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

as long as the ("licensed") hardware gets built we will have OS4 available

What you intend for "licensed" hardware?

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@AmigaBlitter

Sure there is a *small* market and people demonstrated in the past also the good will to invest, what I'm meaning is not to speculate to sell huge numbers. Regarding Hyperion I think that they are also doing game ports and did some licensing of software to other companies. About the other topics like bringing os4 to the embedded market, PDAs ecc. I don't know much.

@Naz

I like "Birra Moretti" - One of the best Beer around.

The market will grow after the realease of a new hardware and the final release of OS4.
At least these are my expectations

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