@AmigaBlitter

Oh yes, Moretti is good! I saw now from your profile that you are italian, so I assume you have good experience on the local beers ?!

@TetiSoft

But the average Joe won't go through the trouble to sign an NDA, assuming Hyperion would even give permissions to the average Joe. For instance, I wasn't even aware of that myself, and chances are that most people with CSPPC boards are in the same boat.

Putting up road blocks no matter how small will discourage people at a time when what we need most is to keep the momentum going by encouraging folks to develop for and test stuff on OS4.

Luckily, I already have a uA1c and am developing with/for it in addition to supporting others that are as well by donating, testing and giving feedback. However, as much as I am encouraged by the stuff I see uploaded every day OS4 Depot as well as some of the commercial and shareware products on the horizon, I want to keep this momentum going and encourage others on the sidelines to contribute in any way that they can, be it by testing, documenting, translating, providing feedback, donating, developing, etc.

Even a Joe user that does is not a programmer can be given a serious incentive to contribute to the effort just by giving him/her access to the platform, even if at a cost. You'll find that many would be more likely to donate and contribute in other ways if they had access to the platform. IMHO, this helps everyone in the Amiga community, including the vendors and manufacturers.

For me, as foolish and costly as this "hobby" might be to many, it's "being a part of helping create and shape something" that keeps me drawn to the Amiga. Creativity is what drew me into the visual arts when I was child and later, when I was 11, to computers (programming), and to me, the Amiga has always been the emboddiment of this in computer form. Originally it was computer graphics and animation that drew me to the Amiga, but what kept me hooked all of these years was the innovative spirit of all of it's developers, engineers and users. To me, that's priceless and I want to help support in any way that I can the folks that sacrifice an awful lot in terms of personal time and money, not to mention the huge personal economic risk for some, to make this dream stay alive even if it might not ever attain huge commercial success.

Last edited by elatour on 20-Apr-2006 at 03:04 PM.

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@elatour

The Amiga people no really need to be discouraged at this moment.
For years they have been baffled.

Anyway, you have a good spirit, elatour.

Well said.

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 21-Apr-2006 at 09:14 AM.

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@elatour

I agree that the number of hobby-users that will go through the trouble of signing an NDA to develop for OS4 will be rather small.
Deciding to develop for an OS as a hobbyist usually presumes that you are fascinated by the OS in some kind of form and that you have access to it. The feeling of "being a part of helping create and shape something" as you nicely put it is also important.

There are still many classic users who are actively developing for the 68k/WOS platform, just look at Aminet uploads. Getting some of them on the OS4 bandwagon would mean a huge benefit for development and the OS4 community.
OS4 for BPPC/CSPPC just needs to be released...

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@polka.

68k/WOS platform well most of that works on OS4 whit out recompiling it, but some of that software contains bugs that go undated on 68k / classic systems.

The best thing a classic developer can do is to

1. Avoid CIA timers,

2. developing software that only uses intuition library / graphics library ,

3. Avoid hacking in the RastPort memory,

4. Use AHI for audio output, or optional for the ones how have no legacy audio chips.

5. don’t for get to run the software using a cyberguard or similar tools before uploading it.

6. Avoid BlitzBasic & AMOS

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Apr-2006 at 03:43 PM.

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[OT]
@Naz

If you're from Friuli, then we're neighbours I'm from Trieste.

[/OT]

Varthall

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

68k/WOS platform well most of that works on OS4 whit out recompiling it, but some of that software contains bugs that go undated on 68k / classic systems.

Yes, but my idea was to have more OS4-"native" developers that explicitly use the advantages of the OS and hardware. Otherwise the apps would just be 68k apps that are running faster. Not something extremely appealing.

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@polka.

What AmigaOS4 needs are more develops that know how to write drivers and low lever stuff, the upper level GUI based stuff, often do not need to be optimized, the only thing that appeals to me when it comes to applications is that they are nice programs, for example I don’t really care that IB is 68k, if it supported CSS it shore will make it a lot better.

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@polka.

”advantages of the OS”

The only advantage from programmer’s perspective is the new API’s

Amiga Input , PCI, new memory system, The new USB stack and so on, file support for 64bit seeking, unless the developer is making software that need to take advantage of that it not so important what code it’s written in, only that it’s not full of bugs or unusable to the task it is made.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

It seems you still don't get my point. What OS4 needs (besides drivers&lowlevel-stuff) are apps and games that clearly show the advantages of the Hardware/OS. No, I don't think a 68k-Ibrowse and the 67th Minesweeper game qualifies for this.

There is not much reason for a hobby-68k-coder to develop/port something like "Virtual Grand Prix 2" or other more complex 3D-games for OS4 unless he gets the hardware and gets access to the OS itself.

Last edited by polka. on 20-Apr-2006 at 04:58 PM.

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@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: @Naz if the things are as you say, there are no reason for Hyperion and the others to continue. But Naz, i'm sure, is not as you say. A market is created with the time and sacrifice.

What specific things did you disagree with Naz on? He seems to have a better grasp on real-world business than 'Oh, AOS is going to take over from Windows!' type comments....?

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@Varthall

Off Topic

I'm german but living in Rome (since last September), before in Milan.

@the rest
Sorry for the off topic

@wegster

I not completely disagree with naz.
Naz said:
"Developments for Amiga, Soft- & Hardware are for sure not undertaken for immediate business reasons but for individually motivations."

That's true.

The numbers and the calculation he done are probably correct.

Quote:

How many motherboards + os4 could be sold? 1000, 2000? Also if advertising and marketing should start (I don't believe because it's much too expensive) how many more are expecting to sell? Other 2000 boards? Classic support, with PPC card and os4, 2000 or 3000? It's possible to have an installed userbase of 5000 or let it be also 10000, is this more than 0,0001% of the market?

But to make a market greater, time is necessary and sacrifice (off course the sense of the business).

Sorry if i have not explained better.

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This timeline is even better:

Amiga Inc. press release kit from 1999

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@polka.

The link doesn't work. It's maybe the first of many lies?

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@AmigaBlitter

I does work here. 2 bidders ATM.

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@AmigaBlitter
Quote:

The link doesn't work.

Checked again - works!

Quote:

It's maybe the first of many lies?

What about this schedule:

4Q99: OS4.0
1Q00: OS5.0 beta
2Q00: OS5.0

"A huge opportunity to succeed." That's just hilarious.

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@polka.

Ok, now the link work.

However, don't let me see this, it makes me cry.

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@polka.


First in the documents it says Amiga Soft this make me believe that this is about some thing else then the OS, maybe Amiga DE / Amiga anywhere, that makes more sense whit time line too, Amiga Inc often say "Amiga OS" when taking about DE products a number of times, but clearly this things are considered different things now; http://os.amiga.com

As for the ebay item, I think is funny how many things that’s not consistent, in the document, for example;

“Confidential” means it’s a company secret,
“press release” means it’s officially out side the company.

This two contradict etch other

The the use of AmigaSoft (TM) and AmigaOS,

This don’t really fit whit AmigaOS

“NEW AmigaSoft TM Environment”
Sound like “Amiga Anywhere” to me.

“Revolutionary software architecture”

Clams it different from the legacy, like “Amiga Anywhere” is.

“Multiple CPU support”

Possible means it support more the one type of CPU, Like “Amiga Anywhere”, I think they written it differently if they where taking about SMP support.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Apr-2006 at 10:38 AM.

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Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: @Atheist Yes, something similar. Not to produce vaporware, off course. A timeline could be a business card for everyone interested in Amiga (Maybe the investors).

Hi AmigaBlitter,


How about this then?


Hello Hyperion Entertainment,

We the users know that a timeline must exist for future AOS4.x + releases.

Could you tell us what it is, with no dates attached, and state for every such release, which parts are hoped for to be done, and which must be done in each?

If you aren't comfortable to reveal the roadmap, could you tell us when it might happen. i.e. We'll release it at the same time as AOS4.0 final is released...


Also, do you plan a major bug update within say 3 to 5 months of release, or perhaps a mini-upgrade + bug fixes, for a small fee? (Call it 4.001 Boing Bag, or something.)

Thank you for your time.