@T_Bone

Quote:

T_Bone wrote: @Bobsonsirjonny How does old debt get cancelled without a bankruptcy judge declaring the debt cancelled? (allegedly )

Oh thats easy, just make sure that the costs of cashing in that debt are atleast twice as high as what creditors might actually get out of it (the worth of the company).

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Frags

Quote:

He means that they can`t grant a license for it because it doesn`t exist.

I think that he means that AInc can't grant a license because current AmigaOS == AmigaOS4 which partly "belongs" (rights) to Hyperion, 3rd party coders, etc.

Quote:

What else? AmigaOS 3.x is old, 4.0 is current. AROS? It's already there on x86, for quite a long time (yeah, irony again). MorphOS then? I'm sorry, if you are talking AmigaOS, there is no way around Hyperion or OS 4. Unless you want to start at 3.1 again and go the long way again, but I assure you that this is not going to work.

Ok just had this crazy idea. How much does a licence from Amiga Inc. cost? Let's make a bounty and get an exclusive AmigaOS 5 licence for AROS!

@Turrican

AFAIK you can get a licence only for a Hardware Plattform, not for a Software Plattform

_________________
Ei gude wie!
I love my AMIGA Collection...
2x A500 (1x 1MB) OS1.3
1x A600 (40MB HDD) OS2.05 (broken joyport)
1x A1200 (68030/50, 32 MB Fast RAM) OS3.1
1x A4000D 040/40 (48 MB Fast), OS3.9, Fastlane Z3, CV64, Deneb, Indi AGA
1x CD³²
1x µAOn

@Legion

Quote:

Legion wrote: < tinfoil hat>

Mate, you look really stupid wearing that tin-foil hat. Especially while you're beating that dead horse.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 22-Jul-2006 at 02:31 PM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Georg

Quote:

Georg wrote: @Frags Quote: He means that they can`t grant a license for it because it doesn`t exist. I think that he means that AInc can't grant a license because current AmigaOS == AmigaOS4 which partly "belongs" (rights) to Hyperion, 3rd party coders, etc.

That's what I thought he might mean. I remember that certain parts of OS3.5/OS3.9 could not be included with OS4 because their respective authors did not give permission (e.g. that fancy skinned CD player). If this were true then AInc could give someone a license for x86 without consulting with OS4 code owners, but then have to start from scratch with the OS3.x sources. No thanks.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans
Quote:

@Frags Quote: Quote: He means that they can`t grant a license for it because it doesn`t exist. That's what I thought he might mean.

Too bad Rogue seems unable to clearly articulate what he means, that would probably put a stop to a lot of these hijaaked "speculation threads".

Last edited by jorkany on 22-Jul-2006 at 02:48 PM.

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote: @Hans Too bad Rogue seems unable to clearly articulate what he means, that would probably put a stop to a lot of these hijaaked "speculation threads".

Very true. Although it's possible that he's being unclear because he's not actually allowed to tell us exactly what's going on. You know, this whole NDA, don't discuss business matters in public thing.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 22-Jul-2006 at 02:57 PM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Legion

Gateway tried to get into other markets several times. One was the Amiga adventure, anotherone was a MIPS based set top box (AFAIR) and they also tried to offer their PCs with non-windows pre-installed (I think it was BeOS or so). These attempts all failed, and now they are back what they do best - selling PC clones.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@jorkany

Quote:

Too bad Rogue seems unable to clearly articulate what he means, that would probably put a stop to a lot of these hijaaked "speculation threads".

Or the other way around - people do not understand what I am trying to say.

Please don't speculate, people.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Crumb

Quote:

for pixel shaders you use a graphic card, not the cpu.

Atm GpGPU’s SIMD/MIMD FP units are being treated as external FP array co-processor (for fragment programs). Refer to the reasons why there are talks between AMD and ATI.

Quote:

Cell isn't finished yet.

Supply issues is one the reasons for Apple’s move to Intel. At least Apple can sell dual core laptop OOOE CPUs in H2 2006, unlike MIA Cell.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Crumb Quote: for pixel shaders you use a graphic card, not the cpu. Atm GpGPU’s SIMD/MIMD FP units are being treated as external FP array co-processor (for fragment programs). Refer to the reasons why there are talks between AMD and ATI.

Yes but you're still restricted with the operations you can perform. The GpGPU effort attempts to use GPUs for general purpose (i.e., non-graphics) computations. However, the only thing really applicable so far is first and second-order finite-element simulations. See my last post about this as to why. You use fragment shaders as a coprocessor array via OpenGL, pretending that you're performing graphics operations when you're not. For some types of problems this helps, for many others you're better of using Altivec/SSE on the main CPU.

Rogue has said that the Mesa port will include support for fragment/vertex shaders. This is great as this means that we'll be able to make use of GPUs. The more powerful the graphics-cards supported the better.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

The difference is that these vector units are locked into a graphics pipeline. I have written GLSL pixel shaders and I can tell you that you can't use them efficiently for general-purpose vector computation

Depends on "general purpose" usage and target market. Applications like 3D Edit Gold v3's (non-linear video editing tool) transition/effects is accelerated by GpGPU resource. ATI to employ PS3.0 shaders for video acceleration which reduces the load from the CPU.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Hans Quote: The difference is that these vector units are locked into a graphics pipeline. I have written GLSL pixel shaders and I can tell you that you can't use them efficiently for general-purpose vector computation Depends on "general purpose" usage and target market. Applications like 3D Edit Gold v3's (non-linear video editing tool) transition/effects is accelerated by GpGPU resource. ATI to employ PS3.0 shaders for video acceleration which reduces the load from the CPU.

Because video-editing is a graphics operation and fits well into the graphics-card's processing pipeline. I have personally written image-processing shaders and I can confirm that, for these operations, a decent graphics-card such as a Radeon X700 or higher, will leave the CPU in the dust. You can perform blurring, sharpening, etc. in real-time on TV-resolution video. Sadly video compression is not an operation that can be performed efficiently using shaders. Therefore compression has to be performed on the CPU.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Crumb

Quote:

I guess that for low cost macs it's a good idea (but the point is that prices haven't come down) because x86 gives the best price/performance ratio, but for high-end machines running vector code it's obvious that PPC is still better (this may change in the future if intel improved their currently crappy vector units)

Altivec's superiority over SSE is dependant on
1. implementation of Altivec hardware,
2. implementation of SSEx hardware,
3. applications being run,
4. complier’s quality,
5. system platform quality i.e. core logic performance and availability.
6. Vector instruction availability e.g.
_a. Altivec is only works in SIMD 32bit FP while SSE2 works in SIMD 64bit FP. A problem for Freescale’s G4 but not with G5’s dual 64bit FPU.
_b. RC5's style instruction usage and gain doesn't reflect real world desktop applications. Should one rehash yet another barefeats benchmark posting?
_c. Not everything can be vectorise. i.e. general ALU performance is important.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Jul-2006 at 11:50 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hans

Quote:

Because video-editing is a graphics operation and fits well into the graphics-card's processing pipeline. I have personally written image-processing shaders and I can confirm that, for these operations, a decent graphics-card such as a Radeon X700 or higher,

NLE '3D Edit' Gold works fine on ATI Radeon 9600 Mobile (M10P) in DVD resolution. Note that '3D Edit''s user interface also uses 3D surfaces.

Quote:

will leave the CPU in the dust. You can perform blurring, sharpening, etc. in real-time on TV-resolution video. Sadly video compression is not an operation that can be performed efficiently using shaders

In relation to video encoding, this is dependent on middleware/driver and support from GpGPU manufacture (e.g. PS3.0 from ATI R5xx GpGPU).

Last edited by Hammer on 23-Jul-2006 at 01:03 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 23-Jul-2006 at 12:11 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hans

Quote:

Yes but you're still restricted with the operations you can perform. The GpGPU effort attempts to use GPUs for general purpose (i.e., non-graphics) computations. However, the only thing really applicable so far is first and second-order finite-element simulations. See my last post about this as to why. You use fragment shaders as a coprocessor array via OpenGL, pretending that you're performing graphics operations when you're not. For some types of problems this helps, for many others you're better of using Altivec/SSE on the main CPU. Rogue has said that the Mesa port will include support for fragment/vertex shaders. This is great as this means that we'll be able to make use of GPUs. The more powerful the graphics-cards supported the better.

ATI plans to replace OpenGL with "Data Parallel Processing Architecture Abstraction" layer (DPPAA) for data parallel processing without going through DX or OpenGL.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

ATI plans to replace OpenGL with "Data Parallel Processing Architecture Abstraction" layer (DPPAA) for data parallel processing without going through DX or OpenGL.

That's an interesting idea. However, you're still stuck with the fragment shaders being part of a graphics pipeline. If they change this so that the processing units are fully general purpose then the performance will go down. There's a reason why general purpose CPUs don't have the same processing power (in terms of vector operations/s) as GPUs. It's flexibility.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Georg

Quote:

I think that he means that AInc can't grant a license because current AmigaOS == AmigaOS4 which partly "belongs" (rights) to Hyperion, 3rd party coders, etc.

I supose that unless Amiga Inc. buys back OS4 from Hyperion, then it doesn't have access to any of the work done on OS4 to it or anyone else wishing to license it for a port to another platform, but that still should leave possibilities for licensing other ports to other platforms, using AOS3.x for 68K as a base like Hyperion did with AOS4. However, that is assuming that there isn't something going on with Gataway that we don't know about as speculated in other messages in this thread. Hyperion aluded to the fact that this is what anyone wishing to port AOS to anotrher hardware platform would need to do, but an OS4-based port to another platform might be possible if and only if Amiga Inc. buys OS4 back from Hyperion, which it can according to the various leaked Amiga Inc., Hyperion and EyeTech AmigaOne/AOS4 license contracts circulated around the Internet in the last few months, which Rogue says was a draft, not the final version of the actual signed contract.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@Rogue

Quote:

Please don't speculate, people.

It's all we have to go on at the moment so that's what's left for us to do. Besides, it's just too much darned fun!

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...