@Samwel

Quote:

I still think it's unprofessional for a CEO to engage directly with customers. If BBRV was Genesi's PR manager or something alike I could think it was okey.

Well, these are small companies we're talking about, and may not even have a PR manager. I wonder if you would also object to Bill McEwen or the CEO of Hyperion engaging in forum discussions here. In such a case, would you say "send your PR manager instead"?

@nzv58l
Quote:

I understand what you are saying, but I just can't understand why it seems like every time Amiga is on the verge of a milestone, then all of a sudden we see a BBRV post? Do you really think it is just coinsidence or is it done with more malicious intentions?

This kind of comment seems to be made every time bbrv come to Amigaworld.net to participate. I think if the "milestone" you are talking about was an actual firm product availability date or something similar and bbrv said basically "buy ours istead", then there'd be merit to the accusation that bbrv are trying to steal the show. But when there is nothing here but talk about eventual hardware releases, about projects with a legacy of missed deadlines, it seems unfair and inaccurate for bbrv to be accused of that.

@thread

For sure, using "suicide bomber" as a metaphor is risky when there are actual suicide bombers causing tragedies every day. But when Volkswagen uses the same image in an ad (as in the bbrv link), I guess it is acceptable. Of course the reaction of some people to bbrv's use of the metaphor shows their inclination to see bbrv in as negative terms as possible.

It is inevitable that when bbrv post at amigaworld.net, some people will react by bringing up every tired old issue, will say it's "unprofessional" for a company CEO to post in user forums, will denounce it all as ego-driven marketing fluff rather than positive contact from an outfit actually developing and promoting computer hardware ideal for the hardware-less AmigaOS, and bbrv will eventually write something that will offend someone, thus fueling the fire for the next round.

As I've said before, I don't know why bbrv continue to show an interest in 'the Amiga community' -- it seems to me that it is truly an unrewarding effort: not only are there very limited sales to be had, but the effort also gets the usual "sod off" reactions on a very personal level. Clearly, a certain segment of people here are so negative about bbrv that they would rather see Amiga computing wilt and die than have anything to do with Genesi. Apparently that attitude is shared by the AmigaOS decision-makers, to the detriment of the platform. They're apt to get their wish.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

Quote:

I wonder if you would also object to Bill McEwen or the CEO of Hyperion engaging in forum discussions here. In such a case, would you say "send your PR manager instead"?

Object? Who's objecting? I said it's nice that he sometimes takes time to talk to customers.
But especially how he does it and without prior notice is unprofessional for a CEO.
But yes you're right that these are smaller companies which have a little different way of
working.

But I hope Genesi is planning to become bigger?! Then maybe a change of how customers
are engaged should be made?
There always comes the time when your company is too big to communicate with the little people!

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@Samwel

Quote:

There always comes the time when your company is too big to communicate with the little people!

I see your wink there, but I think it's great if someone/something never loses contact with the "little people" even after becoming big. Former US President Bill Clinton was great at communicating, I think even his critics would agree, especially when he was talking with ordinary people such as at "town hall" meetings. I think this is a very good quality and priority that shouldn't be lost even when a person has many responsibilities or when the organization is very large. The benefits go far beyond the few people actually involved face-to-face.

Of course if/when Genesi does become bigger, they'd have to have an appropriate support department. But the top management or any company should never lose touch direct touch with the end customer, in my opinion, maintained in one way or another.

-- gary_c

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@Chain-Q



I have enjoyed your reply like a pig rolling in the mud as it shows who is the fanatic who enjoys watching the "other camp" failing

Last edited by Crumb on 31-Aug-2006 at 07:47 AM.

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@Chain-Q

Quote:

... and it was you who celebrated that event in all forums in the known universe, stating that "MorphOS is finally dead, it has no future at all, so everyone should go to OS4 finally".

Not ture! Provide a link to any of my message where I did that!!!

Quote:

it was you who stated that i didn't managed to port FPC to OS4,

Wasn't that true? Yes it was! You didn't managed until that time, and I reached my goal: finaly you did it! Congrats! IMHO you would still sitting on your sources if I don't do that push.
By the way: Where is the OS4 version of the new stable release?

Quote:

Think about it,

I thinked, and pushed the button. Mostly because of the lie in the first row. Please think twice before you give words into others mouth without valid background.

And you are also playing with the similarity with a suicide bomber which is just tasteless as BBRV's try.

Chip...

Last edited by Chip on 31-Aug-2006 at 09:28 AM.

@Crumb

"Other camp"? So, does that means ChainQ isn't really purple as he states?

@gary_c

Quote:

But when Volkswagen uses the same image in an ad (as in the bbrv link), I guess it is acceptable.

Not necessarily. VW is a huge company, but it doesn't necessarily mean that their adverts are acceptable by all people.
I can see the humour in the ad, but I have been fortunate to not have experienced such an attack IRL.
Has the advert been sent in any country BTW?


Quote:

It is inevitable that when bbrv post at amigaworld.net, some people will react by bringing up every tired old issue, will say it's "unprofessional" for a company CEO to post in user forums, will denounce it all as ego-driven marketing fluff rather than positive contact from an outfit actually developing and promoting computer hardware ideal for the hardware-less AmigaOS, and bbrv will eventually write something that will offend someone, thus fueling the fire for the next round.

Our community has the privilege of having direct communication with CEO's, main developers and hardware-makers participating on the forums and IRC.
It's uncommon, but that does not make it unprofessional imho.

The danger in participating on forums is of course that one unconsidered sentence can haunt you for years, and people have a habit of remembering such a slip

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@Chip and Chain-Q

please don't push it any further in the thread, take your dissonances via PM's instead.

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@Chip
Quote:

Not ture! Provide a link to any of my message where I did that!!!

Browse back in Amiga.hu Pegasos topic, and see. (But i also could recommend Hungarian Amiga ML archives, maybe others.)

Quote:

Where is the OS4 version of the new stable release?

Sigh... You can't be such clueless, can you? I already told in Amiga.hu forum, that OS4 support is only in the 2.1.1 unstable branch, because we won't introduce new platforms in the stable (2.0.x) one (only bugfixes and advancements which surely won't break existing code). So, as i stated a few times, the first stable FPC release which will have OS4 support will be 2.2.0.

Quote:

Mostly because of the lie in the first row.

I always lie. Big bad evil blue troll me. Oh well...

@tomazkid:
I ended the discussion here.

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@Chain-Q

Quote:

I ended the discussion here.

Good. I wont edit your post, since you might been writing it when I made my request.

@Chip

Ok, if you want to make one final reply to post #149 , go ahead.

Last edited by tomazkid on 31-Aug-2006 at 10:49 AM.
Last edited by tomazkid on 31-Aug-2006 at 10:49 AM.

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@Chain-Q

Quote:

Browse back in Amiga.hu Pegasos topic, and see. (But i also could recommend Hungarian Amiga ML archives, maybe others.)

Chip was certainly not "celebrating" that event. Also, it would be great if you could please keep your personal arguments private, it is way off-topic here... this thread is supposed to be discussing EFIKA and I'm getting tired of reading all the personal attacks/arguments. Thanks.

@Chain-Q

Quote:

Browse back in Amiga.hu Pegasos topic, and see. (But i also could recommend Hungarian Amiga ML archives, maybe others.)

2 things:
- You state something which is not valid, so you must provide evidence and not me. Why am I have to look for something what I'm 100% sure isn't exists? ..sigh..
- amiga.hu or Amiga ML is not the "all forum of universe"

And other thing: I'm always open to discuss it personaly, feel free to chat with me on #amigahu (ircnet) or in the next party (Function).

@tomazkid:

Thanks.

@dolen

Quote:

dolen wrote: Maybe bbrv stepped on a few toes in the passed. But everybody should keep in mind that those guys made things happen. If I got it correctly they are the same team as was named phase5 when Amiga was still among the eggs in the basket. They came up with cybergraphx and stated the common standard for rtg graphics on amigaOS. Commodore did nothing so they had to do it themselves. And it worked extreamly well with my cybervision64! Good work!!! Then who made the amiga step up to PPC? Amiga inc did´nt do it! Phase5 made it happen! The cyberstormPPC/233 made it into my A4000. And it worked!!! Extreamly well done phase5!! And very offensive to! No pardon, but they made it happen while the competition were only scratching their heads! (...)

Cough - nothing against BBRV (quite the oppsite - I have *only good* experience with them), but CGX and PowerUp were not BBRV's achievement, but that of vision factory (Frank Mariak et al.) and Phase5 (W. Dittrich and his gorgeous team (mostly those who are bplan now)).

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@Zylesea

Sorry, should have written BPLAN/genesi instead.
Yes, the same team in other words. But I remember the name wolf dietrich as the leader of the team, or have I confused those names.

Glad to see you love MorphOS! Maybe I´ll buy one of those pegasos machines one day.

After reading this whole thread I continue to have the same feeling about BBRV and his/her statements/marketing/politics/...: I don't trust him/her.
He/she is clearly working for the success of Pegasos/MorphOS (nothing wrong about this) but I don't trust he/she is doing all this also for the good of AmigaOS4.

After all these years he/she has been able only to announce strange initiatives and lawsuits.
People with much less resources have been much more fruitful and successful using a positive approach. He/she insists with an aggressive one (the more I think about it and the more I see him/her acting like Bill Gates).

Sorry if this can seem rude to someone, but these are my feelings: I hate this situation; I would like cooperation wherever it is possible, and where it is not, then everyone should leave the other alone.

Ciao
Gabriele

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In a world without walls and fences
we won't need windows and gates

@peterray
Quote:

After reading this whole thread I continue to have the same feeling about BBRV and his/her statements/marketing/politics/...: I don't trust him/her.

If you prefer trusting in the void... will be a safe bet, you will have no surprises then...

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@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: @peterray Quote: After reading this whole thread I continue to have the same feeling about BBRV and his/her statements/marketing/politics/...: I don't trust him/her. If you prefer trusting in the void... will be a safe bet, you will have no surprises then...

that's not an alternative. It's best to Trust in people who are trustworthy. There are a few out there.

but, if there are none (at the moment), one just waits until one finds people who Deserve to be trusted and who have Proven themselves.

Don't be so anxious to give your trust away so easily. You sell yourself short.

This is the one thing I find really disturbing about some members of this community. Are some of you all so young and innocent that whenever a used car salesman comes along with a glib story that you have to buy it, hook, line and sinker?

It makes you look desperate. Believe me, I would Love to have AmigaOS on a nice fast piece of hardware. But not at the cost of my soul.

If someone "says" they have a pretty new toy for you to play with, make them PROVE IT.
I never believe anything anyone says until I see something with my own eyes. Everytime someone comes on here (or anywhere) and they start talking about this or that dream, just repeat the refrain, "PROVE IT".

if it's just useless talk, ignore them.

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That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

@pixie

I prefer trust in who I know well, that work hard behind the scene supporting AOS4 without doing empties promises. BBRV doesn't fall in this category.

Ciao
Gabriele

_________________
--
In a world without walls and fences
we won't need windows and gates

@peterray

In my opinion, trust has nothing to do with anything in the Amiga community anymore. If there is a product, for sale, that runs either OS4 or MorphOS for a reasonable price, I'd be interested (in both). Until then, I don't "trust" anyone to do anything; I'll just sit here and patiently wait for anything to materlize. Bill Buck could call me a philipino transexual hooker for all I care; as long as his company has something compelling to sell I'll consider it.

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@cecilia

Look, you find him untrusty... but if you look around, there will be a lot of people that don't think the way you do, and looking at the alternative(s)... I find it quite trusty, at least in deleavering products and stick by them...

Useless talk that lead it to almost buy Amiga in the past... it shows how little he cares about it.

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