@Kronos

Quote:

Well lets look at other attempts to do lifesupport for dying OSes by HW.

Quote:

- Draco

Quote:

O.k. all these have either failed to deliever or didn't reach their goal (stableising the communities)

You couldn't be -further- from the truth.

#6

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@number6

Quote:

You couldn't be -further- from the truth.

Do you know how many Draco's where sold? And - what effect did those (few?) sales have on "stabilizing the community"?

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@number6
The aim of the Draco was to give MacroSystems a way to sell video-HW
without having to do a mayor redisgn, and without having to rely on
discontinued C=-HW.

As such it reached it goal, atleast for some time.

One might also argue that it helped slowing down the decay of the
Amiga-community.

But it never was suitable way of getting Amiga back into full life.


@saimo

I would say cutting out that part was more than fair, since it's more
your own personal opinion instead of factual discussion.

One could answer with a similar paragraph featuring McBill, Barry,
Alan or Ben, heck even the Friedens could qualify.....

But what would it bring other then yet another flamefest ?

Would it change anything in regard of the impossibilties of getting a
licence (specially when it's for HW made by Genesi) ?

Would it change anything bout the lack of (decent) HW OS4 has suffered
from eversince 2001 ??

Last edited by Kronos on 06-Sep-2006 at 03:03 PM.

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@Kronos

So now everyone is here.. Wow! Even Seehund. This must be a topic about OS4 for Pegasos
or OS4 for x86..

I personally don't want OS4 for Pegasos2 anymore. I used to though. Now it's old. Better
hardware is coming.
Too bad Bplan didn't make a upgrade with a better northbridge for its G4 board.

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@Samwel

Quote:

I personally don't want OS4 for Pegasos2 anymore. I used to though. Now it's old. Better hardware is coming.

Yeah, such as G3's with 33Mhz bus, MPC5200 add-on boards, AMCC evaluation devices running at slower clockspeeds and weird 3rd party mainboards from China.
Much better.

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@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @Kronos So now everyone is here.. Wow! Even Seehund. This must be a topic about OS4 for Pegasos or OS4 for x86.. I personally don't want OS4 for Pegasos2 anymore. I used to though. Now it's old. Better hardware is coming. Too bad Bplan didn't make a upgrade with a better northbridge for its G4 board.

Well, still the Pegasos is the only available maschine. This may change soon (2 weeks) or it may not. For the latter case the Peg would still be an alternative. But true, time has moved on and I gave up bothering about OS4 on the Peg long ago. Personally I was never intersted in it, but I thought one common hw would bridge the gap between OS4 and MOS a bit and the alltogether demand of MOS and OS4 fellows might become a sustainable mini market.
And I seroisly doubt that any of these new attempts (troika, Samantha or ACK) will remain in business (if they ever deliver at all). Too much investment, too less customers.

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@Kronos
Quote:

...but if your really serious about bringing Amiga back from the dead you'll need something that can beat bPlan's Pegasos in ALL aspects.

You are implying that the Peg is somehow winning at something. Oh man, are we all that delusional around here?

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Quote:

ssolie wrote: Oh man, are we all that delusional around here?

Yes

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@ssolie

Nope, the problem is that some people just won't even read a simple sentence a 2nd time when the haven't fully comprehed it 1st time around.

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@Kronos

The Amiga is - and will stay for some time - a micro market.

If you really take it serious, it would more likely needs something like a PS3 (or such) with a similar price point and a market which targets the living room to really bring Amiga back to a main stream. I doubt, that something which - just - would beat a Peg will be sucessfull in that respect. Even the Peg is low spec.

We can talk about specs up and down here all the time. Even the fastes current design of any potential PPC based alternative motherboard, which is (or will be) capable of running AmigaOS (or MOS for that matter) is slower than the latest Mac sold with a powerpc. And even this will not change for a long period of time.

Why I'm saying that? If you cannot accept that fact, I think you are in the wrong place here. We give a sh.t, that's why we are here. We are here because we'd like a decent HW which can run our favorit OS. That's just it. If it will be on a competition level to say an x64 AMD or PS3 or XBox or what ever, fine. If not, who gives a dime?

Considering that, the whole power.org, peg, genesi discussion is really boring. Well, and only here to fill the void, I suspect.

I really hope OS4 will be available soon. Simply because I'd like to spend my time a little bit more effectively - and not finding myself dragged into these endless polemic discussions again and again. rgh. what ever.

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@Kronos

Quote:

I would say cutting out that part was more than fair, since it's more your own personal opinion instead of factual discussion.

Instead I think it was unfair because not only the part he cut out was an integrating part of what he quoted, but also because he has thrown all the blame on AInc (and that was his opinion as well), when the part omitted already anticipated a possible reason that showed how the blame (in the Genesi case, which was the only one I was discussing in the original post he decided to answer to) should be redirected to somewhere else.
And, BTW, my reason was more than just an opinion: a simple one-step reasoning based on the public behaviour of BB (which is a fact).

Quote:

One could answer with a similar paragraph featuring McBill, Barry, Alan or Ben, heck even the Friedens could qualify..... But what would it bring other then yet another flamefest ?

No need to involve those people here, nor to start a flamefest. And I can't see what these things you say here have anything to do with what I was discussing.

Quote:

Would it change anything in regard of the impossibilties of getting a licence (specially when it's for HW made by Genesi) ?

Tell BB, who seems to think that bringing the subject on forums has indeed such a capability

Quote:

Would it change anything bout the lack of (decent) HW OS4 has suffered from eversince 2001 ??

In fact, there are people who are trying to get something done the proper way, instead of shouting and whining and attacking and threatening on public forums.

saimo

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@Jorge

I thought you posted some good thoughts up until this point..
Quote:

Considering that, the whole power.org, peg, genesi discussion is really boring. Well, and only here to fill the void, I suspect. I really hope OS4 will be available soon. Simply because I'd like to spend my time a little bit more effectively - and not finding myself dragged into these endless polemic discussions again and again. rgh. what ever.

Why would being a part of the powerpc industry at power.org be boring? Being accepted by the mainstream should be a goal of every amiga user, shouldn't it?

Otherwise you get this..
("Teen's captor used 1980s computer")

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Maybe I'm here because I would like to see Amiga return and become sucessful, I guess the other people (the "red vs blue" guys) are here just to troll and destroy whatever is left of this fragile fractured community. Sometimes I feel like starting a thread to identify these (red vs blue) guys and asking amigaworld ownership to have their accounts suspended. We don't need these stupid trolls to ruin the last remaining community, do we?

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Well, still the Pegasos is the only available maschine.

Which is an advantage that has been wasted.

Quote:

This may change soon (2 weeks) or it may not. For the latter case the Peg would still be an alternative.

That's what you want to believe and what you (and others, with BB in first place) want to make us believe (in order to force AInc/Hyperion using the community as a lever, which is something I find really disgusting) by repeating it over and over again. Instead, the Pegasos is *not* an option. It stopped being an option a long time ago, and the chance has been missed forever.
Can you live with it, please? It is not that hard, after all, especially considering that we're not talking about the most important thing in life and also that, as you say, "time has moved on and I gave up bothering about OS4 on the Peg long ago. Personally I was never intersted in it".
But let's look at your statement closer:

Quote:

But true, time has moved on and I gave up bothering about OS4 on the Peg long ago. Personally I was never intersted in it, but I thought one common hw would bridge the gap between OS4 and MOS a bit and the alltogether demand of MOS and OS4 fellows might become a sustainable mini market.

So, assuming that "Personally I was never intersted in it" means "I've never been interested in AOS4 itself" (otherwise, literally you are saying that you used to be interested and that you have never been interested at the same time) and acknowledging that you don't believe in the "common hw" possibility anymore, can you tell me why on Earth you are wasting your time here on AW.net, in threads like this?

Quote:

And I seroisly doubt that any of these new attempts (troika, Samantha or ACK) will remain in business (if they ever deliver at all). Too much investment, too less customers.

Why, have you seen the actual figures? Would you mind sharing the details with us? You know, otherwise, you're only spreading fear, uncertainty and (serious) doubts.

saimo

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@Zylesea

deep breathing....
Quote:

And I seroisly doubt that any of these new attempts (troika, Samantha or ACK) will remain in business (if they ever deliver at all). Too much investment, too less customers.

I sense a twisted vision ...heavy with the dark side you are.........

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@Darth_X

Quote:

Why would being a part of the powerpc industry at power.org be boring? Being accepted by the mainstream should be a goal of every amiga user, shouldn't it?

Well, I don't know. The power.org is another attempt to streamline a market which lives because of its diversity. This failed before with trying to streamlining unix. It required Linux to come along to find a common layer for most of the unixes. Linux in some way was an evolutionary approach compared to all this artificial attempts.

I simply do not believe in this artifical instituitions which try to come to common terms over something which has specific needs in all it various places. I think this little differences are worth to be kept alive. This is why there are so many small vendors out there who can provide specific solutions for small(er) problems, which hughe companies cannot fullfill, because they are not flexible enough.

With power.org, while I understand the need to establish a counter part to the main stream IT industry, tries to do exactly that. And I am not sure if I want to be part of it.

That said, I am not opposed to a mainstream IT market. I just don't think we need another one. We need something which fills the gaps to that existing market, not create another competing one, which is in fact the same (do you really bother if the car is red or blue?). I could have gone PC long time ago, And in some cases I do. Nothing wrong with it, but not enough - at least not for me.

I also believe, some things simply grow, and I am not sure, if power.org can overcome this by forcing people at a table to actually not following their "guts" but doing things just because others do it, too (It might work for Genesi, because they are founders and can bring their "guts", too).

Might be more efficient from a managers (and money driven) point of view, but it kills flexibilty and creativity.


Quote:

Otherwise you get this..

I don't know what you want to express with this quote. To be honest, I think this is just tasteless. Especially because this happend in my home country.

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@polka.

Quote:

Yeah, such as G3's with 33Mhz bus, MPC5200 add-on boards, AMCC evaluation devices running at slower clockspeeds and weird 3rd party mainboards from China. Much better.

You must not have read my last couple of posts on the matter?
I simply hate the fact that such low end processors are being used for desktops.
IMHO nothing lower than 1GHz 7447 should EVER be used for desktop.

No I'm refering to PowerVixxen TL with the 7448 CPU of course. Should blow Pegasos2
away totally. Performance wise that is.
But I will probably wait and see how it goes with Adam's plans for the PV TL v2, which will
have the SB600 southbridge aswell, before I decide.

Last edited by Samwel on 06-Sep-2006 at 07:20 PM.

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Well, still the Pegasos is the only available maschine. This may change soon (2 weeks) or it may not. For the latter case the Peg would still be an alternative. But true, time has moved on and I gave up bothering about OS4 on the Peg long ago. Personally I was never intersted in it, but I thought one common hw would bridge the gap between OS4 and MOS a bit and the alltogether demand of MOS and OS4 fellows might become a sustainable mini market. And I seroisly doubt that any of these new attempts (troika, Samantha or ACK) will remain in business (if they ever deliver at all). Too much investment, too less customers.

Yes it's still the only available.. But what if Hyperion has inside info on a new board which is
much better than Pegasos2. Should they still invest in that or should they wait the months
they have now waited for the better board?

Yes, I agree on that. OS4 for Pegasos2 would have been really nice 2 years ago. Today? Not
IMO with what we know is coming. But if Pegasos2 support would have been done, say last
year in the summer when µA1-C stopped being available, it would indeed have been a nice
addition to OS4 while waiting for ACK's new boards.

I also worry about all those companies surviving the Amiga market. Too many boards for
a too small market. One low end and one high end should be enough really. And they must
get sales on the outside aswell. ACK seems to have done this. He told us so on IRC anyway.
This was for a slightly modified version of his PowerVixxen TL 7448 board.

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Hi @ssolie

I would like to see a "put-up or shut-up" contest between Amiga OS4 and MOS1.5! There was one a couple years ago that never happened. I don't remember why?
Talk is cheap, performance is everything in my experiences. Winning horses collect the purse, not dead ones. I'm currently unhappy with Amiga's company image.

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@Samwel

Quote:

I also worry about all those companies surviving the Amiga market. Too many boards for a too small market.

Do you really worry about *too many* boards for OS4? Do you really think that all announced boards will show up in stores after all? And even if they would, why worry about that? The market regulates itself. One or two developers will stay, others will go. People that are so crazy to develop for this market should know that there isn't any room for making profits nor for setting up a self-sustaining business...
That's why the only way is to target other markets for some "volume sales" and do the tiny Amiga-market "just for the fun of it".