@Atheist

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Atheist wrote: Quote: Darth_X wrote: @Atheist Please stop trolling! You mean, ahem, like you aren't? You troll before you even write the first character of a reply, look at your signature. Quote: The difference between Bill Mcewen and Bill Buck being sent a nasty email: Bill McEwen would hide under a rock claiming death threats, Bill Buck would post "Hey guys.. I got fanmail!" THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME FOR YOU, either. And I HAVE in fact complained before of your troll stance in a previous signature you've had. Don't like Amiga Inc., Eyetech, and Hyperion? Fine, we KNOW that, so don't buy their products and leave already. I'm sure your posts are highly valued on Moobunny and morpzon. Removed edited quote /tomazkid

Praise the Lord, you've got to praise the Lord! Alleluia, yehaa!!

There such a lunnies, would it be for you we'd all be in a dictactorship...

Last edited by tomazkid on 09-Sep-2006 at 04:49 AM.

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@Dirk-B
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You know it, a free license.

a free 4.50$ per unit* free license is as everyone knows bad to your health, namely when say, against a none existent one...

*of products that actually deliver...

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Will you guys please get a room or something? the only thing you're going to achieve is to get this thread locked...

@CodeSmith

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the only thing you're going to achieve is to get this thread locked...

...and Atheist would have reached his goal: remove the evil word "Efika" from the frontpage.

@Atheist

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I gather that jorkany, hatschi, "nicholas"/mdma (wherever far away he is), Kronos, opi, Exie, and others feel the same way too.

I would like you to putting me among such fine Amigans. I've missed your rants.

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@Jorge

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Hard to copy - because not available as a general purpose OS.

QNX can be used as a desktop system. It's not shiny-shiny but it works, has decent browser, nice shell and mail client. I'd say, it's more that OS4 has. Plus, it's real RTOS.

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@Dirk-B

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Dirk-B wrote: @gary_c You know it, a free license.

You mean like the one a certain "lawyer" allways babbled about in 2002 ??

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@Atheist

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Even a US$4.50 one-to-one ratio if it were coupled with EVERY Playstation III sold, you guys would be being RIPPED OFF ROYALLY!!!!!

If Sony would offer 45ct for every PS3 sold EVERY OS-developer (except maybe MS) would need to be very foolish to decline such an offer .....


If if it turns out a flop, "only" selling 10000000 units, that would still be 4.5 million $ probraly something like 500 times more what OS4 has earned sofar.

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@Atheist

Welcome back dude! I lurv you! I missed you!

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Removed edited quote

I was disappointed to see that you didn't include me among this group of true Amigans.
I promise that I will try harder in the future.
Who is "Exie" by the way? Must have missed him.

Last edited by tomazkid on 09-Sep-2006 at 05:02 AM.

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@Atheist

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Removed edited quote

Since you miss the basics of thread posting rules (amongst many others), I'll try to make it clear for you:
a) There is was a precedent post from Jorge to which I was answering for:
exibit (a)
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Well, what I don't understand (and don't get this wrong, I appreciate the effort), if a "free" solution is what we want, why is AROS not there yet? It supports x86 (a main stream HW), is not bound to any licensing scheme, has tons of developers (thru open source) and is in development longer than AmigaO4.

b) There was my answer to that post
exibit(b)
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Probably because AmigaOS is worth $#|? these days... but probably the right answer would be, without developers that knows how AmigaOS behave from inside out jumping a board it will take quite a long time until AROS came to the usability levels present in either AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS... you see, being on x86 doesn't do miracles.. because miracles only hyperion does them instantaneously, impossible take a litle longer

Where I instated one possible reason to why it's not enough to be free to be a massive sucess, after all AROS behaves as AmigaOS and still it hasn't world acceptance, but then

c) You obviously picked what suited your agenda the most
exibit (c)
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Quote: Removed edited quote

does a->b->c path makes sense? obviously not, but doesn't let that stop you, it didn't in the past...

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@polka

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Who is "Exie" by the way? Must have missed him

Czech Amiga News editor, if you remember that fine site

@bbrv

First I would like to admit that I admire your efforts to penetrate and compete into the computer arena by introducing a new hardware platform (very cool btw) and doing that in a very hostile enviroment (x86 world). I wish you all sucess.

But since 2003 I haven't seen any new product targeted to me from Genesi. I see instead dozens of web sites and blog entries but no new products - especialy Amiga products. I was getting warmed up to buy a Pegasos II back then but I changed my mind when Genesi and MorphOS split their paths and I will not ever buy one until either MorphOS or AmigaOS will be officialy suported by you (Genesi).

And what is powercollaboration.org anyway? I am confused, it seems something between ppczone.org, mypowerpc.org and java.net but do we realy need yet another repository?

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@saimo

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saimo wrote: @Benji Quote: If it is not impossible (therefore possible) - then it is terribly difficult. No doubt about it But what I wanted to know the correct grammar for "it is difficult (or maybe even impossible)" in the kind of form I used in the original post (assuming it can be used at all).

i would suggest either

"it is difficult (if possible)"
"it is difficult (or impossible)"

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@Atheist

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Removed edited quote

don't start this again atheist. you know as well as me this is not an os. furthermore this is not a crack to run os4. this is an app to make morphos run some apps designed for os4 making them more binary compatible allowing programmers to create one program compatible with os4 & morphos without creating two executables.

EDIT: dangit every time i look at this i find another misspelling

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@gary_c

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gary_c wrote: @saimo Quote: it is not wise to partner with somebody who proved not to be a reliable partner. Heh, then it should be Genesi that is reluctant, not Amiga, Inc. Recall it was Amiga, Inc. that was the unreliable partner in the companies' first attempt to cooperate, according the courts. (And if you think AI didn't really "lose" the case but simply forfeited it due to an inability to afford legal representation, that still falls under the description of being "unreliable" as a business partner. In what way is mismanaging affairs so thoroughly that not even basic legal requirements can be met an indication of corporate reliability? -- This is quite apart from the actual finding of the court itself, I hope you understand.) It was Amiga, Inc. that failed to pay rent on their offices, owes back taxes in the state of Washinton, has outstanding debts to various companies, owes back wages to former employees -- all a matter of public record -- and apparently went through a series of on-paper ownership changes simply to protect IP and other assets, including from people who have legitimate, court-verified claims. I'm not eager to rehash these old matters, but mention them only because you seem to have forgotten or want to ignore the history and are making bogus statements that reflect that. I acknowledge that circumstances were hard, but this was also the case for Genesi; it's unreasonable and illogical to ignore/excuse one company and condemn the other. The pragmatic thing to do at this point is probably to accept that neither has a spotless past, for one reason or another, and they should let bygones be bygones and do what can be done to salvage things and move forward. If either is unwilling to do that, it only shows their complete disinterest or even contempt for the would-be users of their products. Time will tell, right?

I see I made a mistake with my one-line summary (and, perhaps, I should have used the word "trustable" in place of "reliable") - I was hoping to make you a favour, but I was wrong. Of course, I was referring to what I had told you in post #254 (which, BTW, you skipped in your reply - post #286 - thus forcing me to report it also in post #316):
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First Pixie, then SeeHund, now you: you all tried to steer the discussion in this direction. Bad or good, pretty or ugly, like it or not, there *are* rules. Rules that AInc, being the owner of AOS, has any right to make as it pleases. If somebody does not like them, then the only way to try to change them is getting privately and professionally in touch with AInc and proposing them a valid alternative. For sure, exploiting the weaknesses of the community, of the market, of Hyperion, you name it, the way BB has been doing over and over again is not the right way and is unacceptable. This, along with personal insults, sly lawsuits, open attacks and whatever has been publically witnessed in these last years (and even before... I've heard negative comments about BB since the VisCorp times), rules BB out as a reliable business partner. No wonder if AInc refused to partner with him. They can't be blamed even if BB had commercially valid proposals. BB is only reaping what he sowed - and he keeps on sowing bad seeds.

Here the matter is not what can be blamed on AInc (and I'm not saying that they made no mistake to be blamed for), but why AInc can't be blamed if they refused BB as a partner (just this specific case). It would be insane to partner with somebody who has already been a former partner and then tried to exploit that to obtain what he had no right to (I'm referring to the lawsuit you mention yourself), publically offends people (bad behaviour from any POV) and potential customers (bad behaviour also from a business POV), openly attacks the other party(*), etc.
You preferred to divert the attention (funny how the first line of the quote already reports a similar/related attempt), but if Genesi/anybody else is reluctant (for whatever reason) to get in touch with AInc, it's them that must shut their noses, stand the smell and do the step... or do you expect AInc to knock at their doors and offer a license?

(*)BTW: BB has been doing it very, very often and we need not to go back too far in time to find something - I'm just seizing the occasion to correct myself: it occurred to me a bit late, but anyway, I must say that I made a mistake when I tried to correct what then I thought to be another mistake. I'm referring to my previous reply to you, where I say "Indeed when I wrote "divide & conquer" I was mostly thinking of the past and I definitely misplaced it after mentioning the first post. Sorry, I mixed things up.". Indeed, that impression was lingering in my mind, although when I made the correction I could not tell why. Now I know. Just look at how this thread started (and, well, also the rest...): BBRV made a post (on AW.net, in an *AOS* forum) in which they draw the attention to their projects and, at the same time, take a cheap shot at AInc - apart from the total lack of professionality and respect, it really looks like they tried to raise havoc among the community and then collect the ensuing splinters for their projects.
Man, how could one possibly want BBRV as commercial partners is beyond me.

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they should let bygones be bygones and do what can be done to salvage things and move forward.

No, not for me. Not for many. The lessons learned in the past are precious. Ignoring them in the name of a "let's forget the past and start it all over again for our beloved platform" is probably what BBRV and many others may (deeply) wish, but it just does not work in this specific case (an important reason has been discussed just above).

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If either is unwilling to do that, it only shows their complete disinterest or even contempt for the would-be users of their products.

I disagree. It may just mean that they can do without each other and/or that there are not all the conditions to build a solid partnership (some are discussed above, others have been discussed to death many other times, others are probably unknown).

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True, but I wonder what the reason would be to keep the license a secret if any of these other guys had gotten one.

Not because one can't see a reason there must necessarily be none.
And, actually, I can see at least two reasons - at least regarding the projects being half-announced these days (but could be valid also for other projects). The first: they have been working secretly for years, so presenting the project(s) directly complete with the license would make for a nice "bang!" effect; the second: the secret avoids the mess the Amiga communities are so keen about (and denotes also professionality).
To say the truth, I've not been really happy with the news leaks because they spoiled everything so shortly before the most suitable moment (the Pianeta Amiga event).

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Since, also, there's a record of people/companies trying and failing to get a license,

I would like to see such a record just to know how many tried professionally, privately, properly and with sufficiently interesting proposals
I've heard a few of those but, to me, just the fact of whining in and/or making the process public in a certain manner before and/or after the failed attempt, is a sign that shows lack of professionalism.

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I feel the best assumption is that there is no license until we know for sure that there is one.

Similarly, it cannot ruled out that a piece of HW has license until it is known for sure that it has none

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But that's getting ahead of ourselves. The first hurdle is developing the hardware, prototyping, bug fixing, redesigning, financing production runs, etc. I think it'd be fine if one or more of these projects did get to the selling stage.

Of course.

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Unlike Alan Redhouse, I don't think there's room for only one producer of offbeat PowerPC motherboards.

Did Alan ever expressly say or hint at this? - I haven't read all that we said/wrote.

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In fact, if more than one can survive, it reaffirms the rationale for the others.

Could you elaborate, please?
Whether one or more can survive depends on a number of conditions. It is not always true that if one can survive, then so can the others.

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Then the question is which one(s) do the best job of finding niches and selling to them.

Obviously.

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(Assuming a workable piracy protection method can be worked out -- which would be needed for anything sold as a Linux board without AOS.)

I can't quite follow you here. Why did you point out just this particular aspect? What do you mean?


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Unlike what someone posted earlier, I don't think the prospect of competition from these newcomers is especially frightening to Genesi.

Is that "someone" me, perhaps?
If so, I'd like to point out that when I talked about BB being scared I was just referring to getting access to AOS.

saimo

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@jkirk

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i would suggest either "it is difficult (if possible)" "it is difficult (or impossible)"

Thank you!
saimo

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@opi

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QNX can be used as a desktop system. It's not shiny-shiny but it works, has decent browser, nice shell and mail client. I'd say, it's more that OS4 has. Plus, it's real RTOS.

Hm, you guys move things around until it fits, right? QNX was nice when it was available. But it isn't any more. There is no way that you can get QNX for less then a couple $k bucks. It's focus is a RTOS market and thus is highly controlable. Also, you, in most cases, buy QNX with a board support package - which you usually pay for! And if it does not exist yet, because you did build a new platform, you "order" one from QSS for your specific needs. In what way is that different, then, say order a HAL for OS4 from Hyperion for you new board ? Also, when using QNX on your target platform you, again, pay a per board license!
(BTW: Writing your own BSP is kind the way Adam works with the PowerVixen, he's doing his own HAL).

All in all I am happy that you guys brought up the QNX example. In fact it's business modell is much more like the Amiga approach. Just more restrict and more expensive. That's what you want ?

True _might_ be, that one can get a free "evaluation" version of Momentics for PCs (this is a 30days limited version AFAIK). As a developer you can try things out. But you will quickly learn, that this version is not usable in everydays business.

Last edited by Jorge on 08-Sep-2006 at 02:43 PM.

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@Jorge

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Hm, you guys move things around until it fits, right?

Yeah, we just here to stirr troubles. Ask Atheist, the 2nd.

I don't know current situation at QNX, but thier OS WAS at thier site, ready to download. I've used it for period of time and it was OK. But I moved to Linux after a while. Also, I have orginal release of QNX 6.something from the "Lets use QNX kernel as new building block of AmigaOS".

If things changed, I wasn't up to date, and I had no intention in misinformation of other users.

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All in all I am happy that you guys brought up the QNX example. In fact it's business modell is much more like the Amiga approach. Just more restrict and more expensive. That's what you want ?

Well, I didn't brought it up -- but I wouldn't mind to see AmigaOS in position of QNX: well performing, respected, and running on dozen of boards OS that can be used by developers and as end-env. for your products. Hyperion stated that they are going embedded with OS4, so they would have to compete with OSes like QNX for RT and Linux for non-RT (IIRC, some patches for Linux kernel-RT are about to be accepted by Linus).

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But you will quickly learn, that this version is not usable in everydays business.

As a developer I'd rather have OS limited by licence (easy to change if I'll find it usable) than OS limited by lack of HW (because it's a thing I can not fix).

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Quote:

gary_c wrote: Heh, then it should be Genesi that is reluctant, not Amiga, Inc. Recall it was Amiga, Inc. that was the unreliable partner in the companies' first attempt to cooperate, according the courts.

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saimo wrote: Just look at how this thread started (and, well, also the rest...): BBRV made a post (on AW.net, in an *AOS* forum) in which they draw the attention to their projects and, at the same time, take a cheap shot at AInc - apart from the total lack of professionality and respect, it really looks like they tried to raise havoc among the community and then collect the ensuing splinters for their projects. Man, how could one possibly want BBRV as commercial partners is beyond me.

Hi saimo,

There, exactly.

gary_c DOES NOT like Amiga Inc. Well, go away then. Don't you have some other proprietary system you quite like? Then go use it.

Yes, bbrv did exactly that right from the get go, incited waves of flames.


To anyone that thinks AOS4.0 is inadequate, slow, lacking in anyway, shape, or form, or if Amiga Inc. turns your stomach and makes you reach for pills, or Eyetech are a fly by night operator, and that Troika/ACK/Samantha/whateverelseMysterythingy are shadows of ghosts, well, YOU'VE MADE IT DAMN CLEAR by now. Why won't you find something better, oh and don't bother coming back and telling us about it, because we're quite content to stay in our delusional state!!!!



Really, anyone who isn't happy, should just be kicked out, because if they keep moaning about it 24/7 for months and years on end (you know, thinking about it, they do need mental health treatment), well, it might eventually get me depressed and I'll leave.

Quote:

jkirk wrote: @Atheist Quote: Removed edited quote /tomazkid don't start this again atheist.

Hi jkirk,

Okay, when THEY stop.

Last edited by tomazkid on 08-Sep-2006 at 10:45 PM.