@COBRA

Quote:

Now THAT is a serious and highly professional business letter! This will surely get things started! Go bbrv, go !!

Deep breathing........

I see no professional email, only fluff on AW

looks to the future......the force is clear on this matter, sees the answer

the little red guy has it.

Last edited by Interesting on 20-Sep-2006 at 06:46 PM.
Last edited by Interesting on 20-Sep-2006 at 01:07 PM.

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"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Samwel

Quote:

To me it seems pretty simple. Amiga Inc. has a possible binary buy back clause. Meaning they can buy back OS4 in binary form and sell it the way the please. Only when OS4 is finished of course. This may be one of the reasons OS4 is late (hardware is another). Hyperion has never let go of the sources (I hope) and none of the contractors doing work for OS4 either I suppose. But they have signed contracts letting Hyperion and/or Amiga Inc sell OS4 with their work in binary form. It's the same way MorphOS development works/worked. Each party owning their own work. But signing contracts for the final work in binary form for each version of the OS released. Not letting go of the sources.

If that's the way it works, I will not be purchasing OS4 to run on any hardware. I've already outlined why. One coder could get mad/tired/whatever and decide to disallow use of his code and then there would be a dead OS with no way to update or move forward. The only way I will purchase OS4 is if the complete sources are paid for and owned by one single company. When that happens, I will gladly put down my money. Until then... I'm not risking it, no matter how many press releases or "all is okay" statements are made.

@Herewegoagain

Quote:

If that's the way it works, I will not be purchasing OS4 to run on any hardware. I've already outlined why. One coder could get mad/tired/whatever and decide to disallow use of his code and then there would be a dead OS with no way to update or move forward. The only way I will purchase OS4 is if the complete sources are paid for and owned by one single company. When that happens, I will gladly put down my money. Until then... I'm not risking it, no matter how many press releases or "all is okay" statements are made.

I agree, we don't need a second MorphOS disaster.

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AMIGA 1200 | Vampire 1200 II | 128 MB RAM | Indivision AGA Mk3 | 256 GB SD | AmigaOS 3.2.2
AMIGA 600 | Vampire 600 II | 128 MB RAM | Indivision ECS Mk3 | 256 GB SD | AmigaOS 3.2.2

@Rogue

Don't want to spoil the party, but the kernel belongs to Thomas and me, and nobody asked us yet.

Does that mean I can ask for an X86 port now?

AmigaHeretic

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@DJBase

Quote:

DJBase wrote: @Herewegoagain Quote: If that's the way it works, I will not be purchasing OS4 to run on any hardware. I've already outlined why. One coder could get mad/tired/whatever and decide to disallow use of his code and then there would be a dead OS with no way to update or move forward. The only way I will purchase OS4 is if the complete sources are paid for and owned by one single company. When that happens, I will gladly put down my money. Until then... I'm not risking it, no matter how many press releases or "all is okay" statements are made. I agree, we don't need a second MorphOS disaster.

By the looks of it, that has already happened some time ago. Only that it's publically visible now. I think both OS's are in pretty much the same situation.

MorphOS and OS4 are both closed source, proprietary OS's with commercial ambitions. I think it's about time that *all* involved stakeholders starts acting according to those commercial ambitions.

You can't have 40+ entities owning pieces and parts of the OS, everything needs to be collected under one single umbrella (which then of course can be jointly owned by those 40+ entities). Code needs to be separated from coders. It can't be allowed that key things lives or dies depending on the current mood of individual coders. There has to be *one* entity, with absolute power and rights to close deals with any kind of entrepreneurs.

I wrote a post about this on MorphZone some time ago, but the response it had kind of put me down (to put it mildly). It seems that most developers and users are perfectly happy with the hobby status MorphOS is in, seemingly forever limited to run on the Pegasos1/2 and Amigas. I, however, fail to see any long-term stability and guaranteed development way into the future without a solid commercial foundation, but obviously (judging from the response in that thread at least) I am in a clear minority.

IMO, Both MorphOS and OS4 are in desperate need of some entrepreneurs. OS developers won't take the platform any further without this. They can't. But it *has to be possible* for entrepreneurs to join in. And for that to happen, there needs to be an infrastructure in place making this possible. Something similar to what was outlined in my linked MZ post above.

This current absurd situation must end.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

I think both OS's are in pretty much the same situation.

Co-operation time?

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@takemehomegrandma

... and now you know why, even after the startup frenzy of the 1990s, there is still only a small handful of highly succesful tech companies. Read up the OSNews article on RiscOS and you'll see a surprising number of parallels with the Amiga situation. Self-destructive behavior seems to be the norm with small tech companies.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 20-Sep-2006 at 08:29 AM.

@tomazkid

Quote:

Co-operation time?

If an angel descends from heaven, takes each of the people involved by the hand, promises each of them fast, bug-free compiles, problem-free motherboards, all the pancakes they will ever want, 100% controlling interest in the new venture, everlasting happiness, assured nirvana in the next life, then . . . maybe.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

Quote:

If an angel descends from heaven, takes each of the people involved by the hand, promises each of them fast, bug-free compiles, problem-free motherboards, all the pancakes they will ever want, 100% controlling interest in the new venture, everlasting happiness, assured nirvana in the next life, then . . . maybe.

Perhaps 71 virgins would be enough...

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@Interesting

Would be Troika way the way to do things, the professional one? Somehow I don't quite understand on how failing to comply to deliver goods at least when they were supposed by Troika's own predictions is anymore professional...

_________________
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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

You can't have 40+ entities owning pieces and parts of the OS, everything needs to be collected under one single umbrella (which then of course can be jointly owned by those 40+ entities). Code needs to be separated from coders. It can't be allowed that key things lives or dies depending on the current mood of individual coders. There has to be *one* entity, with absolute power and rights to close deals with any kind of entrepreneurs.

Exactly the point I'm trying to make myself. And you are right, it is most important to have the absolute rights to the OS when it comes to making business deals and additional partnerships. How else can you guarantee your partners that you can continue to support their hardware with new updates and features, when you don't even own the rights to the sources?

@Interesting

Quote:

I see no professional email, only fluff on AW

I was being cynical. Obviously no company would take it seriously, if approached like this.

@COBRA

You're so naivë, there are things that rule above manners.. I would be thinking of money, and business oportunity for once... but these are things that aren't usually linked to Amiga Inc...

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@COBRA

Well, they should. Frankly, we have exposed enough here in this thread to keep us from wasting too much money and time until we have a serious and detailed response. It is surprising to us that you don't see the efficiency of this approach.

@all

Here is another thought. Amiga is far from being a commercial entity of any sort. Genesi's judgment against Amiga Inc. notwithstanding (that means set this aside, forget it, and pretend it never happened), Amiga Inc. wherever it is domiciled has serious problems (details omitted because highlighting the problems of Amiga Inc. is not the point). At the very least as we have learned here, the future they forecast depends on Hyperion, which depends on two developers who have worked very hard to create something great and have not been paid - and are not playing without being compensated. Unless someone has a rich Uncle, you are all stuck in this situation together.

Frankly, we have the same problem with MorphOS. Many people have continued to work hard, toiling away at creating a useful, solid, and potentially revolutionary product. The problem is the same. We stopped paying for MorphOS development in 2003, because we had no money left to do it and unfortunately there was no return to support it. Perhaps, if we had started out with something beside the Articia things might have been different. From that point forward:

1. Genesi has not had the resources to support the development. In other words, Genesi has not had the extra money to invest. If we had the money we would have!

2. The OS itself does not drive revenue commensurate with the financial needs of the development team - much less developer wants! NOTE: that is until now, which is why we are trying to find a solution to an opportunity we have.

We wish it was not so. In the immediate post-CBM world success was still possible. Phase V lasted a few years, Felix Schwarz (Iospirit) lasted many more doing Amiga things (that talented developer has move on to other things). He did that in Germany, the strongest market there was for CBM products. Of course, the champ is Michael Battilana. He is our hero. He has done a great job for many years and still kept kept a flicker of hope alive.

In the meanwhile, let's take a quick recap...

1. IBM abandoned CHRP.
2. Apple left PowerPC.
3. Freescale closed the Computer Products Division.

Who can succeed in this environment given we have a PowerPC target?!

To top it off, open source software became the fuel for billions and billions in revenue for big (big) companies. You could say: Game Over for proprietary software not linked to WIndows. Look at the pressure being felt by much more established players such as Green Hills and QNX (and they are in the embedded market - hint).

Why are we still playing? Is the adoration we get here and on MZ or moobunny?

We have a conference call starting in a couple of minutes. Will will proofread (first pass made) and will finish this later.

R&B

Last edited by bbrv on 20-Sep-2006 at 12:48 PM.

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genesi

@bbrv

Quote:

Well, they should.

*coughs* ... well, please excuse me if I cannot take you seriously, I must be from another planet thinking that writing in internet forums is not the correct way to approach companies whom we intend to do business with. How silly of me for thinking that. Now I'll go and try to catch a Windows developer on IRC in the hope to make a business deal with Microsoft...

@COBRA

No worries COBRA, give us a call when you wake up in the 21st century. People are often stuck in old ideas too long.

R&B

Edited by Bodie_CI5: Political discussions have no place in an Amiga hardware thread; I'd ask you to refrain from bringing up such topics in these sorts of threads.

Last edited by Bodie_CI5 on 20-Sep-2006 at 10:14 PM.

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genesi

@bbrv

Quote:

Here is another thought. Amiga is far from being a commercial entity of any sort.

It is not wise to trash the name of the people you want to work with.

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@bbrv

WILL YOU EVER STOP SPAMMING AND ATTACKING?!?

Quote:

Here is another thought. Amiga is far from being a commercial entity of any sort. Genesi's judgment against Amiga Inc. notwithstanding (that means set this aside, forget it, and pretend it never happened),

Forget it?!? Just because that's better for *you*?!?

Quote:

Amiga Inc. wherever it is domiciled has serious problems

It is not up to you to post this kind of information.
Moreover, you are putting in a bad light another company using completely unfair means - and this is bad in itself.
Finally, you are publically doing this to the company that you are supposed to work with - and this is just stupid!

Quote:

(details omitted because highlighting the problems of Amiga Inc. is not the point).

You should have stopped a few lines earlier!

You know what?!? I smell that your application was rejected (no surprise) and now you're back to your dirty games!

Quote:

At the very least as we have learned here, the future they forecast depends on Hyperion, which depends on two developers who have worked very hard to create something great and have not been paid - and are not playing without being compensated.

Playing dirty again!
You never stop to get low.

I'm utterly disgusted.

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@bbrv

So, in the 21st centrury, companies approach each other for business deals by writing to each other on public internet forums? I'm not sure who needs to wake up here... anyway let me know if this revolutionary business practice of yours works out and I wish you the best of luck

@Interesting

Quote:

Here is another thought. Amiga is far from being a commercial entity of any sort.

People still go mad when someone states the obvious... can someone refute this? I mean, logically, not for the sake of it... there's those who fall on it because the players involved, but can anyone seriously take a stake on what was actually said?

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga