@Crumb

Quote:

BTW, Does "Panda" use a 7448 dual core or single core?

7448 is single core. There is no dual-core 7448 version AFAIK. The Tsi-109 has dual-CPU support, which means you could in theory use two 7448's with it to have a dual-G4 board.

@Darrin who wrote:

"Unfortunately there is a sizable portion of the
community that have a hard enough time forking
out $19.99 for a download of Amiga Forever."

Ya, I never could bring myself to buy it to run
on my Amiga peripheral pc. You just know when you
running an Amiga.

"The same people who complain about hardware prices
on eBay and how "idiots" keep driving the bidding
price up and up."

There are fewer working Amigas and peripherals left
each and every day. Those who really need or want
that hardware will pay the price.

"The same ones who keep pointing out that you can
buy a complete PeeCee for $400, the same ones who
insist that an A1 mobo should cost the same
and no more than an Intel or AMD equipped one."

Well it shouldn't. In a perfect world. In the one
we're currently part of it costs a lot more and
this has been explained time and again.

"The same ones who will be queuing up to download
OS4 from their favourite warez site as soon as
it is " cracked" to run on their second hand
PPC Mac."

Piracy is the bane of all markets. In a monopoly
situation like Windows, it only serves as ancillary
marketing cementing Microsoft's position.

"The same ones that only really like Linux because
it is FREE."

Linux as a server seems very good. Linux as a
desktop has another gigabyte to go to match
the facility of Windows.

However the point I would make is that the "same
ones" are not a homogeneous class but small sets
of individuals that when allowed "free speech"
become a cacophony that drowns out sensibility
and critical thought.

"I bought a second A1200 in an Elbox tower just
for the Power Vixen. I'm getting sick of wasting
good money to try and support hardware that is
announced publicly and then cancelled behind
closed doors."

I bought a µA1. It works well despite the track
record of AmigaOne's to that point.

"I think OS4 on the Playstation 3 is our last hope."

It would be nice to have commodity hardware even
if it wasn't meant for the Amiga desktop. I think
that has been hinted at for new hardware to run
AOS4, it will be for an embedded product but will
also run an Amiga desktop as a sideline.

@Colin_Camper said:

"Alans' tirade against his present and potential customers
wasn't excrutiating. It was pathetic. It wasn't accurate.
It was disingenuous."

I said:

"I thought Redhouse clarified the situation about the
Amiga market with excruciating and accurate insight."

*What has been delivered is not perfect, but is absolutely
remarkable given the pitifully small potential market to
support the product. This is a product by enthusiasts for
enthusiasts, not some mass volume high street product.*

*The bottom line is that we got very low volume, new (and
therefore defacto not mass tested) PPC hardware into
peoples hands when nobody else would do anything. We did
that on the basis that we would keep the costs as low as
possible for those early adopters who were prepared to
share some of the risk. The alternative would have been
to price the boards to cover that risk (in consumer terms)
making the boards at least three times as expensive to end
users. (And prices must be based on manufacturing costs
for these small volumes, and not the sales prices of bare,
mass-produced PC boards).*

"Tirade: A long angry or violent speech, usually of
a censorious or denunciatory nature; a diatribe."

Those quotes Colin, seem to be a clarification of the
situation and not some angry diatribe against his
present and potential customers.

"No. Alan realised that his business model for the A1 had
failed because of his poor choice of platform. His Amiga
customers did everything asked of them. They sold out
every batch of AmigaOne board. They hung onto their
boards despite obvious shortcomings and defects. Alans'
Chinese mirage never materialised - almost certainly due
to the obvious problems with the hardware. He was in
denial about the reasons for the failure of his A1 project
and decided to publicly lampoon and insult his customers.
This was the last public thing he did. Bog off! and Good
Riddance, I say!"

An equally valid interpretation I guess since you don't
seem to have anything new to offer about what really
happened. All he said was:

*In this context you can understand it is hard to feel
anything but frustration when the forums are full of
armchair lawyers, designers, hardware experts and business
analysts who all claim to be able to do better but seem
curiously reluctant to take the same risks, exposure and
initiative that we have.*

"Compare and contrast with Genesi"

"They started out with the same hardware problems, quickly
learned from their mistakes and produced the PegII which
is universally regarded as stable and mature. They 'hard'
sold the PegII (some may say a little too hard ) into the
Amiga community. They gave away boards to prominent
developers within the Amiga community. Eventually they
started selling boards to corporate clients running Unix,
Linux and Solaris. All the while they never belittled,
insulted, lambasted or 'went silent to' the Amiga
Community. (They did this and more to Individuals but
that's not my point here.)"

It seems clear enough that Bill Buck has cut the strings
with some finality. I was going to buy a Pegasos but when
the moment arrived I was greeted by the cancellation of
the "subsidy". Now I read that it is end of hardware for
the PegII.

I bought a µA1 which surpassed my classic Amiga running
my 68K apps at 10X the speed my A3KT/040 could and then
with update #4 taking another leap forward with JIT.

@ssolie

Quote:

Here I have a Troika Panda (no need for quotation marks) board right here and so does Hyperion. We have them and they run right now. So I should throw away this working Panda board right now and wait for some other evaluation board that isn't even available yet?

I wonder why the same people who was against Genesi hardware when it was readily available now thinks that it's better to use available hardware...

That Panda board is not designed for desktop use, it doesn't use a microATX form factor, it lacks AGP or PCIe (I thought it was supposed to be a "high-end" board). It's not a cheap board. UD Tech "Panda" looks like an industrial motherboard.

In contrast Pegasos III is designed with desktop in mind. UD Tech produces the "Panda" board but they obviously don't have a license for OS4. Neither them or Troika have one. I wonder why many people here were against a Peg2 port anyway... well, in a pair of months we'll probably see the first Pegasos III prototypes working. Then Troika will be able to order some Peg3 boards and have a decent end-user desktop motherboard.

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@Bodie_CI5

Well, I'm sorry about that as I didn't want to compare anyone with assasins. I'll try to choose my words wisely in the future.

I used the word without thinking that we are in an international forum and people may get offended with words that to you wouldn't sound so "aggresive". I'll choose another word to describe the religious and dogmatic behaviour of some people.

I didn't want in any case to compare anyone with assasins, so if I have offended anyone I'm sorry about that, please accept my apologies.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb

Hey man, it's no problem. Just keep it in mind for the future, though (as you've already stated).

_________________

@Crumb

Quote:

In contrast Pegasos III is designed with desktop in mind. UD Tech produces the "Panda" board but they obviously don't have a license for OS4. Neither them or Troika have one. I wonder why many people here were against a Peg2 port anyway... well, in a pair of months we'll probably see the first Pegasos III prototypes working. Then Troika will be able to order some Peg3 boards and have a decent end-user desktop motherboard.

I don't know how you can possibly believe this is a realistic option. For better or for worse, it seems very clear from everything that has happened so far that Amiga Inc are unwilling to work with Genesi in any form. This is why OS4 was never ported to the Pegasos 2 even when it was available, and this is why it won't be ported to the Pegasos 3 when it is available.

@madtrekker

A company like Troika could buy boards from genesi and rebrand them as mmm "colibri" "platypus" "cangaaroo" or "koala" to continue the amiga tradition of using animal names for hardware. (I'm just joking about the names)

Now, seriously, I don't think that buying boards from Genesi, adding a pair of labels to the board and getting a license for it would be a problem. If they are going to do it with UD Tech they probably would be able to do it with Genesi hardware. Amiga Inc only wants money after all...

Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 03:56 PM.

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@kindergip

Quote:

"I think OS4 on the Playstation 3 is our last hope."

That might help, but I think there should be a PS/3 workstation, more like PS/3 == A500/A1200, and something above, like more RAM, PCIe, etc (and maybe no gfx, but off the shelf ATI/NV/whatever board) for $1000 (or even up to $2000) price point (maybe a A2000 and A3/4/5/6k type machine in the range between $750 to $2000 , while the real PS/3 would run the sony games only ?, the big ones could "emulate" the PS/3)...

The would be great - but won't happen.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

I guess that with the current situation *any* hardware capable of running OS4 will help to keep OS4 alive a few months...

OS4 running on PSX3 would rule. Hyperion already have developed games so maybe they have more chances of Sony allowing them to port OS4...

A full CELL computer may be nice, but until CELL motherboards are produced in quantities, PSX3 may be cool.


Now back to topic and in conclusion...

ACK is going to release any board? be it:
a) cpu cards?
b) full motherboard?
c) accelerator for classic miggies?

AFAIK he doesn't have a license, does he?
Is he willing to use and improve AROS-PPC now that OS4 door seems closed?

Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 04:24 PM.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb
I find your use of quotation marks around the Panda name insulting. Please stop it.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@Crumb
Quote:

I wonder why the same people who was against Genesi hardware when it was readily available now thinks that it's better to use available hardware...

So where exactly was I against using Genesi hardware? And what is with the smiley face? Enough with the insults children.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@ssolie

Quote:

I find your use of quotation marks around the Panda name insulting. Please stop it.

Why do you find it insulting? Some people get offended very easily I think...

-edit-
BTW, I have looked at my previous post and I have seen that the first time I refer to that board as Panda without quotes and the second time I call it UD Tech "Panda" between quotes because UD Tech board is not called Panda. Troika is the one that has relabelled UD Tech board as Panda.

I was not trying to be offensive , but you should relax a little...

Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 04:34 PM.
Last edited by Crumb on 06-Nov-2006 at 04:28 PM.

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@Crumb

Quote:

Now back to topic

After pages and pages of "off-topic", that might be a nice idea.

Quote:

ACK is going to release any board? be it: a) cpu cards? b) full motherboard? c) accelerator for classic miggies?

No one has received a CPU card for testing that I am aware of.
I doubt there is much progress regarding the other products.

Quote:

AFAIK he doesn't have a license, does he?

According to him, no.

Quote:

Is he willing to use and improve AROS-PPC now that OS4 door seems closed?

That question would need to be asked directly of Adam.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@ssolie

Quote:

So where exactly was I against using Genesi hardware?

Search the words "ssolie pegasos genesi" and check out the results.

Quote:

And what is with the smiley face?

It's the irony of the situation: people who didn't want to use readily available hardware now wants to use readily avavilable hardware without caring about the board being designed for desktop or not (IMHO it's an industrial motherboard, and without AGP/PCIe and mini-pci it doesn't seem to be designed for desktop use. It can be a wonderful motherboard but it simply doesn't seem to be the best choice for desktop users).

Quote:

Enough with the insults children.

I think you feel offended very easily. Go out and leave the computer a little, breathe fresh air, run a little outdoors and read my comments again without thinking "Crumb seems to be a blue troll".

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb

Never a truer word spoken, eh?