@gary_c

Yet, it's the topic we see the most these days...

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface
How do you conclude that? I see many more other topics not related to "what is the Amiga community?" On the other hand, when it does come up, this question often generates long threads because the topic is so subjective and people seem to think it's important.

-- gary_c

_________________
zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@gary_c

I didn't mean to conclude, I just stated my perception of the most the most reoccuring topic as of late. Sure, there are plenty of other topics but few *seems* to be as reoccuring. And then, you replied to your own question there... Isn't what people think of as important what defines things as important?

Last edited by samface on 27-Nov-2006 at 07:58 AM.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

Isn't what people think of as important what defines things as important?

Ah, so you meant by "see the most," the "most recurring."* I took "the most" to mean "largest quantity or volume." Which accounts for the misunderstanding. And of course, none of these mean, in themselves, "important". But that's enough of this kind of thin-slicing.

* I think "where's the hardware" type threads still outnumber "what is the Amiga community" threads, but don't want to belabor the point.

-- gary_c

_________________
zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@AMiGR

Quote:

Had AmigaOS4 been an OS with no backwards compatibility, you can be fairly certain that 90% of the users that are here today would had never jumped in. So much for compatibility being of secondary importance.

When I bought my AmigaOne-XE backwards compatibility was of very litlle interest at all. I have boxes and boxes full of OS3 software, but that is what my A1200 was for - and UAE runs nicely on the AmigaOne. What I wanted from a new PPC machine was modern software which didn't have restrictions placed upon it by having to be backwards compatible. I now see that that's just not going to happen

Am i wrong, but the topic is EFIKA, right?

I am sorry to see those stubborn ones only wanting amiga logo on their computer, even if it overpriced and buggy.

Let's compare amiga with car; new Yugo, the worst car ever made is aroud $4000. It is my national car, but i am not that stupid to buy it just because it is made in Serbia. No, i will buy for the same money foreign, more quality car, either second-hand or new.
And the point is:
BOTH cars would drive me from point A to point B. Except the second car would be more comfortable, have built-in music, air-conditioner, be faster, last longer, cheaper to mantain etc etc....

and now look:
mos is AVALIABLE, os4 not
mos WILL be developed, os4 probably not, since they are YEARS behind shedule (years, not weeks)

efika is avaliable and will be. A1 is not, and probably won't be
efika is cheap, a1 WAS damn priced (and not that much faster comparing the price)

If mos become avaliable for efika, then efika would be something like AMIGANG, that would become dominant amiga. OS4 developers will have to port their applications to mos, if they want to earn extra money. And so, the competition begins. And in every competiotion, the end-user gains. SO, WHY THE HACK WOULD I BE STUCKED TO NON-EXISTENT H/W AND S/W, just to say i have amiga?!!? I ain't crazy!

Long live AROS and MOS......

_________________
May the force be with you...

@Thread

Quote:

bbrv wrote: @ssolie Did you know we were working on the graphics drivers for that board? We have been working with XGI, Freescale and UDTech for over a year. Let us know if you need some support. Here is a graphics update: 1. 2D is loading and working perfectly. 2. 3D is loading and working but with possibly some endianness issues (color, sometimes). We need community testing and community development effort to get this up to 100%. We will get this started soon. Would you like to participate? 3. MPEG acceleration is being worked on right now (by XGI). This is almost complete if not complete in the latest code drop. MPEG with software acceleration works fine. The initial testing looks good. Our ATI driver is not as bleeding edge as the XGI driver, but the ATI driver is stable and it works with MorphOS. We intend to offer a 'developer upgrade' that consists of an XGI card with the corresponding driver code to interested developers in a few weeks. The XGI card can do more than the ATI card, but for the XGI driver to be successful and become as robust as the ATI driver, it requires a community effort. We cannot skip that step. Note that Freescale has an XGI driver too. Freescale is shipping an XGI driver with its uboot boards. Don't worry, we will turn the XGI driver effort into a PowerDeveloper project. We build solid hardware and we will support the bleeding edge stuff that is happening -- even for the ubooters.... Best regards, R&B

Look at this, people:

XGI Graphic driver developer program (currently developed on the "Panda"), free Efika boards for developers wanting to develop MorphOS software, and opportunities for developers to get their programs distributed (licensed or "light") in the Efika Super Bundle:

LINK!

@takemehomegrandma

yeaaahhhhh.....

and who can now say that genesi IS NOT MAKING FUTURE AMIGAS!!!!

Genesi rulez!

_________________
May the force be with you...

@RedMelons

Quote:

When I bought my AmigaOne-XE backwards compatibility was of very litlle interest at all. I have boxes and boxes full of OS3 software, but that is what my A1200 was for - and UAE runs nicely on the AmigaOne. What I wanted from a new PPC machine was modern software which didn't have restrictions placed upon it by having to be backwards compatible. I now see that that's just not going to happen

With no compatibility at all, you would have no software to run on the OS at all. It would be just yet another AROS, only without the free hardware.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

With no compatibility at all, you would have no software to run on the OS at all

Well, I wouldn't say 'no software' - OS 4 Depot has an abundant supply of OS 4 native software, but I know what you mean. When I joined the 'Club Amiga', and read all the plans and predictions for OS 4 I really expected more OS 4 apps to be developed over then next three years or so.

If I try to run a 'Classic' Mac program on my Mac mini I get a message 'This program won't run on this computer' - and I'm content with that. Why do Amigans expect 10-15 year old programs to work on a next generation Amiga?

@RedMelons

Quote:

Well, I wouldn't say 'no software' - OS 4 Depot has an abundant supply of OS 4 native software, but I know what you mean. When I joined the 'Club Amiga', and read all the plans and predictions for OS 4 I really expected more OS 4 apps to be developed over then next three years or so.

It is now, for two reasons:
1) There was an influx of users and developers that caused development of new software over the last 3 years. Without compatibility, there would be no software at launch, and as such no major number of users and developers.
2) The OS still is source compatible, meaning that a lot of applications got straight ports or even recompiles and many developers moved over their existing codebase to OS4.

Quote:

If I try to run a 'Classic' Mac program on my Mac mini I get a message 'This program won't run on this computer' - and I'm content with that. Why do Amigans expect 10-15 year old programs to work on a next generation Amiga?

You never kick compatibility out in one move. MacOS X only lost the classic sandbox when Apple moved to Intel, after many years of third party development. Apple also had a **major** commercial developer base when they moved to OS X.

_________________

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote: @Thread Quote: bbrv wrote: @ssolie Did you know we were working on the graphics drivers for that board? We have been working with XGI, Freescale and UDTech for over a year. Let us know if you need some support. Here is a graphics update: 1. 2D is loading and working perfectly. 2. 3D is loading and working but with possibly some endianness issues (color, sometimes). We need community testing and community development effort to get this up to 100%. We will get this started soon. Would you like to participate? 3. MPEG acceleration is being worked on right now (by XGI). This is almost complete if not complete in the latest code drop. MPEG with software acceleration works fine. The initial testing looks good. Our ATI driver is not as bleeding edge as the XGI driver, but the ATI driver is stable and it works with MorphOS. We intend to offer a 'developer upgrade' that consists of an XGI card with the corresponding driver code to interested developers in a few weeks. The XGI card can do more than the ATI card, but for the XGI driver to be successful and become as robust as the ATI driver, it requires a community effort. We cannot skip that step. Note that Freescale has an XGI driver too. Freescale is shipping an XGI driver with its uboot boards. Don't worry, we will turn the XGI driver effort into a PowerDeveloper project. We build solid hardware and we will support the bleeding edge stuff that is happening -- even for the ubooters.... Best regards, R&B Look at this, people: XGI Graphic driver developer program (currently developed on the "Panda"), free Efika boards for developers wanting to develop MorphOS software, and opportunities for developers to get their programs distributed (licensed or "light") in the Efika Super Bundle: LINK!

" Anonymous said...

I will port OS4 to the EFIKA. I will send you email. This help Genesi. This help OS4. This help MorphOS. This help Amiga Inc. This help. I understand and I do. Can you the rest? I want indivisible. Can I have beer too? :)"


http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2006/11/indivisible-community.html#comments

@takemehomegrandma

How exciting, NOT.

I think by now we are "somwhat" familiar with that blog you linked to. No need to even start with the comment section now.

@hatschi et al

Back on topic...

EFIKA for YOU too?

Amigos?

R&B

_________________
genesi

@bbrv

Dude, I want to see OS4 running on your hardware as much as anyone here, but clearly Mr Anonymous at your blog was not serious. For starters, where would he get the source code from? it's not like a Linux port where all you need is a BitTorrent client and a few hours to spare...

I am pretty stunned how large this thread grew since I checked for the last time. But in a positive sense, since we already surpassed the 100th reply and havent by far reached the point, where all moderator need to post one after the other to calm down the debate. And even some on-topic contribution, thanks for that! :)

I wanted to reply to some posts individually first, but it got me dragged too much out of the focus of the thought I wanted to share with you. I therefore decided to discuss some of the issues raised individually, that makes it better readable and might bring the thread a bit back to its intended focus:

- MorphOS / OS4 competition in general

As i've mentioned I see Efika as a great chance to help building a viable market for both systems.
But that doesnt mean that they suddenly stop competing against each other, as they are effectively doing since the beginning. But (at least) they wont compete anymore on different hardware, having huge differences regarding price, features, availability, quality, reliability etc., in the same market segment.
In general the market segments in which either might fit into now, are almost identically for obvious reasons. This will of course change for both individually in the future, depending on many factors like for example the design goals, the financial situation and last but not least the demands of the potential consumers.
My bet is, that at the moment when we could say, that MorphOS and OS4 are really 'different products for different markets', the minority of the userbase then will remember that 'only Efika made it possible', which brings me to my next point..

- Efika killing other hardware efforts

I think there is hardly another community, that is being as diffuse as the amiga community, when it comes to views which purpose their favorised system could and should serve and how. Just some lously collected thoughts:
Should it come in form of a joystick (or a mice? :) as kind of a retro-toy, in keyboard-cases ('AmigaFantasy' anyone?) to become something like an home-computer was back in the 80s/90s, or should it be possible to self-assemble a system using ATX/BTX/whatever-standard components to build customized workstations and PCs, as we know today? Should be more compatibility added (maybe to legacy hardware aswell) or might they more focus on trying to become something 'on their own', being based on past concepts and giving compatible to legacy applications to some extend, or not! Should the market consist of 'a few' people willing to invest more for 'freakier' hardware or of 'many' people looking for affordable alternatives...
And that are just some ideas, which alone could be extracted furthermore, and I guess almost everyone in the community has his pretty own views floating around (just like I have).

Needless to say, that the Efika cant serve all of these purposes, it will be "just" one product (line) out of many serving a possible future market. But as I said, I think the Efika could create the by far strongest initial market segment by bringing the advantages of home-computer OSes (in its true sense of the meaning) like MorphOS and OS4 onto 'embedded devices', which might someone call 'the home-computer of the 21th century'.

I fail to see how that should have anthing else but a positive impact on all related efforts., but instead of repeating myself here, I want to ask this (hopefully rhethorically) question, before I move on with the next point where I'd like to share my opinion. Is it more likely having someone dreaming about an (expensive) A3000 Workstation when he's a happy A500 owner or when he's going with the IBM-PC?

- OS4s chances to run on Efika in general

One opinion about this issue really buffled me in general(not just in regard to the Efika). It seems some people think, that OS4 on 'Genesi hardware' is so unlikely, that they even refuse to hypotetically discuss the benefits of such an endeavour. Again, I dont think that its unlikely to happen, it might even happen quicker than anyone could have had imagined and thus set an end to most of the 'Amiga Inc.-not-cooperating-with-Genesi'-issues (and some of the negative impact it had) over the years, immidiately.
There are just too many possibilities how such a cooperation could look like, where all partners could benefit from the agreement formed. And, as previously mentioned, at the development-stage OS4 is, it is almost certain, that there will be 'somebody' in the end, trying to make profit where 'he' can.
Wether this means that selling OS4 as OEM with Efika (ie Genesi pays for bundled copies), selling it seperately for the amount of xx-¤/$ or (virtually unlimited) different schemes like licensing Efika to build exclusive (dongled) Hardware, through themself or other 3rd hardware vendors, cant be even vagely guessed. There are just too many possibilities, not just for the Efika imo...

A hopefully motivating final paragraph: Get over the "it-cant-happen"-mentality and speak openly about your demands if you like. Cause at the end it will be you and the hopefully many new users who pave the way for the operating system of choice to find market segments to prosper.

Again, enjoy yourself and best wishes,

logain

Last edited by lgn on 28-Nov-2006 at 05:26 PM.
Last edited by lgn on 28-Nov-2006 at 05:23 PM.

@lgn

Please share whatever you're smoking, I want to be able to disregard facts and the reality of the situation like that too!

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Can't be much different from what you are smoking then

_________________
x86/MorphOS 4.0

"Delving into the past can be a dangerous exercise." -hyperionmp

"I've been a supporter of "REACTION" GUI because is an Amiga OS thing." -Snuffy

"I personally prefer a vision of do'ers and makers rather than

@Cheese

I don't know really, I got it out of your jacket.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

It's beginning to reach people!

http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34568&forum=22