@MikeB

The 360 numbers are still greater than usual for Japan.
Remember that before Blue Dragon the machine was selling between 1500 and 4000 a month, so even though it's small numbers compared to the competition it's still progress. Perhaps Lost Planet will sell more units over the next couple of weeks - it received rave reviews in Famitsu.

The PS2 numbers are pretty low for Japan, but it's to be expected that the numbers are dropping at this point. PSP is doing better than it has for a long while, but I expect this to be due to two titles and I expect it to settle back in the normal sales numbers in a month or so.

The 360 numbers for Australia are exceptionally good. Being that close to Wii is no mean feat. I wonder if it was because of Wii shortages.

@MikeB

Yup the Xbox360 isn't beating the Japanese on their home turf. But, it is making in roads. Here are Feb sales of the 2nd year of the Xbox in Japan. 2003 Xbox sales
Jan 12 - 3,900
Jan 19 - 3,400
Jan 26 - 6,700 -- DOA Volleyball 1 released.

So not winning Japan. An increased rate of sales by 2 fold plus while being higher in price. That's not necessarily a bad story.

@ED209

Quote:

Wow, linux hacking already in progress and it hasn't even been released?!?!?!?

As long as the guy who's the real freak runs Linux, even one would be enough.

Downloaded the Debian Live CD (and Yellow Dog and Fedora). I'll give it a try over the weekend.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Any chance of a little write-up of your experiences next week then?

@Trezzer

I think this Oblivion developer may have been talking about seektimes, considering the higher density on the disc, for the laser to find the right location on the disc may take slightly longer compared to DVD (as was the case with DVD vs CD).

This matters more if the required files are more scattered across the storage media. Such a design of scattering data may make sense on DVD / CDs as there are such great reading speed differences depending on the location of the disc.

But not so with Blu-Ray, you can always count on sustained read speeds of 9 MB/s with a x2 Blu-Ray drive. So it would be much better to keep level data at one location. So for instance first level 1 data, following this level 2 data, level 3 data and so on. Considering the extra storage space you can further reduce seektimes by duplicating certain data which needs to be read for each level on seperate locations on the disc closest to the seperate level data areas.

I think at least for 1st and 2nd party exclusive developers which don't need to worry about other storage media used by different platforms, the PS3 with Blu-Ray and a harddrive by default will offer significant benefits. Sustained speeds of 9/MB/s makes data reading speeds more predictable, the harddrive which is a default minmal spec on any PS3 is an ideal solution to store speed critical files or often used files.

IMO a good example how much harder it is for multi-platform developers to get the maximum out of the PS3. It's not like porting your data over from a slower PC to a faster PC (faster drive, more Mhz, etc), there are more fundamental differences between the XBox 360 and the PS3, which require more care.

Last edited by MikeB on 18-Jan-2007 at 11:29 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 18-Jan-2007 at 09:26 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think this Oblivion developer may have been talking about seektimes

At first I was thinking the same, but:

'Said Bethesda's Todd Howard, "Drive speed matters more to me [than total capacity], and Blu-ray is slower."'

Last edited by Trezzer on 18-Jan-2007 at 09:32 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Any chance of a little write-up of your experiences next week then?

Well, sure. If I feel the urge to do so But it depends on my mood then. Changes without notice. (Don't say I promised anything)

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@MikeB

Is this (officially) the longest thread (of all the times) of Amigaworld.net? (i not find another one more long)

Then it´s sad ( and ironic) that the longest thread on Amigaworld.net is not about Amiga (or amiga related)

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Fransexy

OK, here some more Amiga-PS3 relevance:

http://www.tiscali.nl/content/article/cmult/483579.htm

"Hyperion Entertainment hoopt het nieuwe besturingssysteem ook aan te passen voor de PlayStation 3. De Cell-processor in de nieuwe console van Sony is gebaseerd op PowerPC-technologie, dus technisch is dat mogelijk. Voorlopig is het PS3-plan toekomstmuziek, geeft Carton toe: "Er moeten nog enkele technische en juridische obstakels uit de weg worden geruimd."

Totdat het OS mag draaien op de PlayStation 3, blijft het potentiële publiek van AmigaOS 4.0 dus beperkt. Carton denkt voornamelijk aan hobbyisten en nostalgische computergebruikers die wel eens een Amiga-emulator afstoffen. "Mensen die zich de tijd nog herinneren dat je een computer zoals een tv in een handomdraai kon uitzetten door gewoon op een knop te drukken." AmigaOS 4.0 moet in het voorjaar beschikbaar zijn, tegelijk met de nieuwe hardware."

In short, the news article states Hyperion would like to adapt AmigaOS4 for the PS3. They are working on ridding themselves of some juristic and technical obstacles.

If they have taken care of this all, I don't think it's bad the Amiga community already has some in depth knowledge about the product in advance.

Last edited by MikeB on 18-Jan-2007 at 10:16 PM.

@MikeB

Yeah, if OS4 gets to run on PS3 things get more interesting.

I wonder if it will have access to overlay and such when it can't access 3D-acceleration or if it's just a simple frame buffer thing...

@Trezzer

I'd guess with a 40GB/sec FB write access even SW renderer would be fast :) Maybe faster then what we have right now. Someone should write a CG emulator for the SPE :) The pitty is, that could can use the vmem as swap buffer at max. Hopefully they open up the RSX to some extend.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@MikeB

One can dream of a day Hyperion ports to the PS3. New hardware is supposedly coming this year. Perhaps this is the surprise. Since the hardware is consistent one of the best ways might simply to be to sell a harddrive with AmigaOS as it's boot OS.

@BrianK

AFAIK there won't be any OS running native on the HW (except GameOS). The PS3 has a kind of abstraction layer which runs below the OS (hence the trouble with the RSX). I think this won't change for a possible AmigaOS port.

See http://moss.csc.ncsu.edu/~mueller/cluster/ps3/doc/LinuxKernelOverview.html

Last edited by Jorge on 18-Jan-2007 at 11:03 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Quote:

AFAIK there won't be any OS running native on the HW

While we'd all love to have a native OS on the machine is it important? I'm sure even if running on the abstraction layer it'll kick butt over performance compared to the 604e 233Mhz setup I have. At worst if it was as fast as a G3 AmigaOne I'd be happy. We'd have widely available hardware at a fair price. I agree true Amiga hardware would be better but I think in today's age the price/performance ratio is likely going to be poorer compared to other options. That's my pessimistic view I'd be very happy to be shown wrong by some new hardware that has a comparable price/performance ratio to other computers on the market.

@Jorge

I own the PS3, 360, Wii and a bunch of other consoles.

In all honesty I think you can't really compare the systems because how good the game looks is really dependant on how good the developer is and how much effort they put into the game. Take Gears of War...absolutely amazing graphics - better than Resistance Fall of Man on PS3 for sure.

But then take a look at the Grand Turismo HD demo on PS3 and that blows away Project Gotham Racing on 360...

I think, overall, both systems are very close graphically and specs wise...I think it is really upto the developer and how good they are. If they do a great job I think games will look amazing on both systems.

Blazing Angels is nearly identical on both systems. Perhaps a tiny bit better on PS3...maybe not, hard to tell.

Wii can't compete here. :) But it has a fun factor which is different.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!

@Jorge

You are right the supervisor OS is first run and then other OSes are hosted on top. One big advantage this way is that you should soon be able to multitask between hosted OSes and games. At least AFAIK that is the plan, you should even be able to start a PS3 game from inside a host OS as well.

If only the supervisor OS would support Amiga-like depth gadgets and screendragging, or some cool SPE 3D desktop functionalities...

For the long run Sony may well release an upgraded PS3 with a faster Cell processor, faster drives and more memory. IMO the current PS3 we have right now is a great start and developers can learn a lot about the Cell through Linux.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Jan-2007 at 12:37 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

While we'd all love to have a native OS on the machine is it important?

No, I think it doesn't matter. If I'd compare Linux on the A1 against the speed I see on the PS3, I'd say Linux is a ton faster on the PS3 - even with the FBdev. If I transform that into AmigaOS, we should see a hughe improvement running AmigaOS on the PS3 compared to Linux (I'd guess).

The biggest problem for AmigaOS, though, is Blitter support. The AmigaOS reaches its fast visual response in big parts because it can offload a lot of gfx i/o to the blitter (e.g. moving windows on the screen and swapping areas etc). That said, I don't know, how fast a fb (p96) driver would work on a PS3. But then again. The cpu access into vmem on the PS3 is faster then what current OS4 gfx boards can handle thru the blitter within vmem (as long as you don't read back from there). But, hay, there are still 7 copros. Blitter ops could be easily offloaded to one of those.

3D is a different story. But then again, Some people are talking real time ray tracing on the PS3 - using the SPEs. Guess the SPE could be fast then say a R200 ? (uneducated guess).

Unless AmigaOS comes up with native NV70 or latest Radeon drivers (on a dedicatede HW), running it on a the PS3 will always be faster then what we have today.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@MikeB

Quote:

For the long run Sony may well release an upgraded PS3 with a faster Cell processor and more memory

It would be possible STI showed a 6Ghz Cell. Now IF such a machine is made my money would be it'd be the $2,500 DVR version , the PSX version 2 if you will., which Ken had talked about. Likely the price will change as the features and concept is better defined...

@HammerD

If you read some experiments people are doing thru crowd simulation and such, then you'll find a huge field of research there. I am pretty sure, the knowledge base how to effectively use the SPEs is not here yet.

But I'd agree. Currently the machines are comparable (with the current software). I just think the PS3 has more potential (and Linux - or even better AmigaOS at one day) - are arguments for me (and I can rent BlueRay from Netflix). Not because of the speed, but because its geeky and comes closest to what Amiga was all about back then.

People think the PS3 has a lot of potential which can be exploited over time. The 360 has some more potential, too. The PS3 is a launch machine and can compete with a pretty much optimized 360. This alone should give a hint that there will be some progress. I'd guess not so much visually, but maybe in a detail level (e.g. how big the crowds are in the background, the atmosphere which you can achieve with it etc.). This should have an impact on gameplay, too. I'd hope. There are only so many pixels in 720p and 1080i/p what you can display - but the depth can change somewhat. We'll see.

None the less - if money wouldn't matter - and I'd have more time (!) - I'd get a 360, too. And a Wii (but then I, I have two boys :)

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Quote:

None the less - if money wouldn't matter - and I'd have more time (!) - I'd get a 360, too. And a Wii (but then I, I have two boys :)

LOL I just realized you're Jürgen. It has been a while since we both worked in Austria and met at your place to talk AmigaOS4. First time we met was a year before that in Switzerland during your 'OS4 on tour' and the last time you vistied Holland with your wife, greetings to your family, I hope you like living in the USA now, at least you can have an early PS3 hands-on.