@Trezzer

Quote:

And Oblivion has to have data put on the disc several times whereas the 360 version (as far as anyone knows) did not have to. What does that tell you about your numbers?

That the PC / XBox 360 version wasn't designed with having the PS3 in mind (maybe the XBox 360 neither, as there have been complaints with regard to long loading times). But I think the end result will be essentially the same (as the XBox 360 version) or maybe even be slightly better. They don't have to worry about making a deadline for christmas, so I think their port will take as long as they deem to be required, meaning until they are satisfied with their port. Maybe they will allow a partial HD install or re-arrange their data structure / loading mechanism.

Quote:

ersonally I don't sit with my ear against my 360, so while I do notice if it's running

Me neither, but my gf did wake up (she fell asleep after watching a movie) when I booted Gears of War for testing late at night. This matters to me and I felt guilty.

Quote:

Perhaps it would have been less of a disappointment for the rest of the world.

I don't think this will be the case a year from now, when games really start to use the benefits Blu-Ray provides (or when they bought some Blu-Ray movies).

I remember a long time ago when many people were discussing against the usage of DVD in the PS2 (I think this also related to longer seek times). I argued at the time that this was a good idea by Sony, now there are around 120 million PS2 users.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Jan-2007 at 09:46 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Jan-2007 at 09:32 PM.

@minator

Hm, can give you a quick update.

I went into Best Buy and bought myself a PS3. Yippie! Got the PS3, the PS2 mem card adapter, 2 games and a second controller - and new since today - the DVD remote (which works like a charm). The machine came with Firmware 1.31 (that's the latest, so I didn't need to upgrade). Games were Resistance and Tony Hawk. Didn't buy any race games, because there are 2 available to download (Motorstorm and GT HD).

I hadn't had much time to play around. Brought it into the company and some people occupied the machine. We just hooked it up to a normal 480i display. I have an PS2 RGB/VGA cable (came with Linux for the PS2), but unfortunately, this didn't work - yet. But, that was just a quick test on a TFT, can well be that the signal was out of range of the TFT.

I also burned Debian and YDL (and right now Fedora Core). Put the bootloader on a SD card (doesn't need to be a USB stick or such) and installed "OtherOS". Did a reset, put the Debian Live CD in. And voila. Boots into Debian and Gnome. Not much on the CD, but boots right into 480i under X. Firefox runs. I didn't install the OS yet, want to try the other two distros as well. But, man, that's pretty damn smooth. Can't complain. You don't really feel its fbdev only. Its definitively faster then my overloaded 1.6 Pentium M Notebook.

Now I need to get a new TV, I might most likely go with that one until I can afford a big 1080p TV. It's just a monitor, but that thing eats almost any signal (including DRM HDMI signals). Seem I'll need a second PS3 as a workstation later anyway :)

I can't really talk about the games yet. I had just a quick impression on 480i. And knew the most of it already. Everything plays pretty nice, and my expectations have been met so far. I wanted a complete solution, not just a gaming machine. And thats exactly what I got. I haven't been that excited since I got my C64 or my Amiga 20 years ago! The only thing annoying within the games is the long sequences which I guess they use to cover up the load times. No way to short cut those. Neither in Resitance nor in Tony Hawk. And, well, hopefully a future firmware version has a better way to boot into another OS directly from the Cross Bar interface. Currently thats a bit complicated (and you need to shut down linux correctly to boot into GameOS again).

I gota head home and try some more stuff. Installing Linux, trying to hook it up to a VGA and more PS2 games. I think I'll post again later.

have a good one - I certainly will

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

Quote:

I remember a long time ago when many people were discussing against the usage of DVD

Quote:

I argued at the time that this was a good idea by Sony, now there are around 120 million PS2 users.

I thought I would dig up some old discussions from the time of the PS2's release just to see if there are other parallels to be found, actually I think it must be like deja vu for many people...

"It's hard to develop for, which means it's not going to have a lot of games, it has a DVD player which just jacks up the price"

"f it was free, sure, but charging an additional $100 is insane. Many PS2 fans argue that their system is better because it has a DVD player, but I think the complete opposite"

"I've seen a lot of screen shots for PS2. To tell you the truth, about 40% of them look like they are on the PSX. I'm not kidding. If you want me to show them to you, just ask, and I'll show you what I mean."

http://www.epinions.com/game-review-AA2-34EA63DD-39B26717-prod5

Some random anti PS2/Sony rants:

"Seriously, lots of developers, and GOOD ONES, are bitching about the PS2 and how it's kinda ####ed up. Check the links on my site (second commentary entry) if you don't believe me. Carmack. Rare. The Oddysee guys. Lots of folks."

"OK, first of all, WHO COPIED WHO FIRST? Sony copies Nintendo again and again. The dual shock controller is the first example. Nintendo came out with the rumble pak first, then Sony copied it with the dual shock. Nintendo came out with the analog stick on the N64 controller, then Sony copied it on the dual shock. And look at the PSX/PS2 controller for a second. Don't you see that the button layout is EXACTLY the same to the SNES controller?"

"The survey at ebworld.com has different results:
Gamecube 34%
Dreamcast 29%
PS2 29%
X-Box 8%"

"As for MS's entry, 46% of all people polled choose the X-box as their next system as opposed to 26% for the PSX2 "

"PS2 making a large mistake with their online service. They are making the developers fend for themselves. This is why it will fail. "

"I mean, think about it, wasn't this the main reason why the Neo-Geo failed?
didn't it suffer from too many arcade games?

this is also why some people are retarded enough to make up LIES about the
N64. The only true RPG for that was a half-assed 3D RPG called Quest 64."

"The REAL reason why the PS2 WILL fail, is the fact that a system CAN NOT be successful if the consumer CAN NOT get one."

"I want some good stuff here, you know how there aren't any good games,
how the ps2 will fail miserably, how the X-box rulez dood!"

" I don't think that ANY console can be given a 5 year lifespan anymore.
The PSX is the exception to the rule, but it seems that it's on it's last
legs due only to the intro of the PS2. "

"I don't want to burst your hyped up bubble but PS2 will most probably
fail in north America, due to the fact that units price is a little
expensive and most importantly game developers will not be knocking down
doors to produce games for this unit

A few years ago i purchased a game console you mite remember called
3DO, well PS2 has a familiar stench of failure in the air"

"If gaming history tells us anything, the PS2 WILL FAIL. Genesis to Saturn, Atari 2600
to 5200. NES and SNES to N64. See a pattern?"

"Sony wants to have a... (I just love the way Sony can put a spin on
anything).....PS2 RE-LAUNCH in March 2001. They would be much wiser to just
plan the PS2 FUNERAL"

"There isn't a single current post about the next awesome PS2 game. You know why, because the next awesome PS2 game won't come out for months! The PS2 is dead. Admit it, and move on. It will be either the GameCube or the X-Box that lead gamers to the promised land. Not the PS(peeee-eeeewww)."

"i've spent months arguing about the various facets of the ps2, and I've come
to the conclusion that there are a select few that really cant see the wood
for the trees. It's just so obvious the PS2 is an over priced DVD player
with a games machine tacked on for good measure. one must wonder if Sony
accidentally mixed up production lines with Nuon."

IMO insightful:

"always the same thing. people who prefer other systems come into this
newsgroup and seem to have the capability of predicting that the PS2
will fail and XBOX/GameCube will succeed because these self-made
experts decided it will fail, be it just because they can't afford a
ps2 and want to let their frustration out on those who own one. yawn."

"Now we also get people who hate Sony, and everything that bears the
name. Some tell me that the PS2 will fail because of the shortage. Of
course not. But see the pattern?"

"You guys are foolish. You think the PS2 will fail becuase of the crapy software
out right now"

"Well, DVDs pack data more closely together, so given the same RPM,
you can read more data from a DVD than from a CD-ROM. Since the data
tracks are closer together as well, it takes more time for the head to focus
on the correct spot, hence the slowest seek time."

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Jan-2007 at 11:35 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Jan-2007 at 11:24 PM.

@Trezzer

Using the HD is cheating so in tests where it wasn't used the GC wins.

@Lou

Quote:

Using the HD is cheating so in tests where it wasn't used the GC wins.

Does it really matter how things are done? It's hard to say which games used it and which didn't, but I don't remember many (if any) games where the GameCube was the fastest overall loading (I do remember that some specific tests were slightly faster). It was fast enough certainly - and often close to the Xbox loading times. So close it didn't really matter much either way.

@MikeB

Guess what Mike: You can find that for every console. I'm pretty sure the same was said for the Jaguar and look where it is today.

Then again.. no-one here is saying the PS3 will fail - only that it won't grab as large a share as the PS2 did. The machine will sell by the name alone - and some will get it for certain features. I would love for Sony to not get the biggest share (of PS3/360 - Wii will most likely stay ahead) - simply because it could mean that they realize how arrogant they've been and that it has come back to bite them in their behinds.

You can't keep p*ssing on your customers and expect to see no result from it.

@Trezzer

This discussion reminds me of the old days of EA, when there was another console war, and everyone wanted a 3DO.. Does anyone remember that war? Considering EA is the dominant distributor these days, imagine if they owned the hardware side of things too..

-Don

@Trezzer

Quote:

Guess what Mike: You can find that for every console. I'm pretty sure the same was said for the Jaguar and look where it is today.

I guess more importantly for me, if we were really to use MikeB's tactic of selectively quoting past forum postings about PS2's performance and merits as an indication of the future performance and merits of PS3, we would also have to make the point that PS2 never lived up to the "untapped potential" hype that was to prove it technically superior to competition in the end... would this then also be indicative of PS3?

Of course not. Different times, different situations. Interesting parallels are all nice and good, but I do think the habit of selectively quoting opinion-based postings (informed articles are an other thing) to support a position really takes the debate nowhere. It may make for interesting social study (it certainly has in the Amiga community context in the past), but I don't think this thread has really been about that.

I would still like to learn more about which is better: Xbox 360 or PS3. So far the PS3 side is not really impressing me like I expected it to be.

PS3 may very well end up beating Xbox 360 on sales, who knows. I think the brand-recognition alone would make that possible, also given it is not a bad piece of hardware anyway (likely far closer to Xbox 360 than PS2 was to Xbox). But which one is the best performer? That remains very much up for grabs and no amount of selectively quoting the past is going to determine the outcome.

Last edited by jtsiren on 20-Jan-2007 at 02:37 AM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

I would still like to learn more about which is better: Xbox 360 or PS3.

Which is better? The one that fulfills your needs the best. As far as power these 2 consoles are more equivalent then the PS2 and Xbox were. Neither company is going to fold up their gaming divisions. Both will be here tomorrow both have said they'll release future consoles.

Which is better truly is on the user. My wife is a good example. She'll tell you she loves video games. But, she likes the 8-bit/MAME sort of games. She wants 1 stick and 1 button. She doesn't like anything more. Her favorite console is still the Atari 2600. She is liking the 360 for the rehashed 8bit games - Frogger, Pac-Man, and the like. Just recently she's gotten into HexicHD. So for her these consoles really aren't important.

@DonnieA2

What? Everyone wanted a 3DO? :) Then precious few of those bought one. I guess the crazy price point had something to do with it...

The 3DO war was over for me before I even saw it start. I remember seeing ads for Need for Speed and thinking "That looks kinda cool" - but I was only slightly interested in consoles at the time and I guess I didn't really start caring till CDTV/CD32 was launched. I had tried G7000, NES, MS, MD and some others, but 3DO quickly disappeared from magazines here - just like the Jaguar. I still managed to pick both of them up later on, but that's a different story

Then again 3DO was kind of like the MSX of consoles - except far less successful

Quote:

I also like the fact that Blu-Ray discs are hard to scratch.

TDK's Durabis 2 coating protects 200GB Blu-ray discs
http://w.engadgethd.com/2007/01/19/tdks-durabis-2-coating-protects-200gb-blu-ray-discs/

Look at the picture. BTW the scratched DVD is more likely to be of use with a PS3 than with a XBox 360, as the PS3's drive is also more scratch tolerant.

@MikeB

*Poke*

There. You were sounding like a broken record.

@MikeB

Can you loose weight with a PS3?

Like this

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@MikeB

Quote:

TDK's Durabis 2 coating protects 200GB Blu-ray discs

This coating is currently applied to mini-DVDs, such as ones used in the camcorder. There is no physical reason that this is a feature that DVDs or HD-DVDs can't use it too. Thus the question is probably business related did TDK sign any exclusivity for Blu-Ray? If not I can see that they want to extend the coating to DVDs and HD-DVDs as they both are other products they could in turn make money off of.

@tomazkid

The Wii remote is very cool, technically Nintendo could support the PS3 through Bluetooth, it could be the best of two worlds combined.. Wii gameplay with ultimate graphics.

To quote myself prior to the PS3 and Wii launch in early October:

MikeB wrote:
Quote:

Some more videos of people testing Nintendo's new controller Looks innovative and seems to add much realism to gaming. And you get some physical exercise as well.

MikeB wrote:
Quote:

That's nice but not really new. I was reffering to this functionality: PS3 controller It's gonna be funny watching people play: Nintendo's controller

So I am probably the last guy here at AmigaWorld you have to point out the coolness of the Nintendo Wii controller. Although some games are better played with a gamepad.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Jan-2007 at 04:02 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 20-Jan-2007 at 04:01 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 20-Jan-2007 at 03:59 PM.

@tomazkid

Have a look here.

Besides that DDR style games have caused lots of people to lose weight and there are even work-out games for PS2 (heck, I believe there were even some fitness games for the C64).

Whether you play Samba de Amigo, Dance Dance Revolution, Eye Toy Kinetic or Wii Sports you can get some exercise. The biggest difference is that everything needed is included in the Wii box.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Jan-2007 at 04:02 PM.

@tomazkid

Quote:

Can you loose weight with a PS3? Like this

Just lift the box a few times, that should do the trick

_________________
Whyzzat?

David Jaffe, of God of War fame, sees lots of parallels with the PS2 launch as well, he is also confident like me the PS3 is the more powerful console.

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/8593

Potentially and hopefully when Motorstorm and Lair are released during the PS3's global launch the rumours spread by Microsoft will be laid to rest. Even if these games only get to use something something like 40-50% of the console's potential, I think most people's doubts will be largely be taken care off. I am looking forward to comparing the complexity of 'Halo 3' and Killzone.

@MikeB

Quote:

PS3's drive is also more scratch tolerant.

I can confirm that to some extend. Battlefront 2 will nowhere play again in my PS2(s) - but the very same DVD works flawlessly (and I have the feeling it loads faster) in the PS3.

Have no scratched BluRays, yet

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@tomazkid

In all honesty, I strongly believe this is utterly nonsense. It is simply impossible to see results after 6 weeks and clearly assign a reason to a 30 min per day workout on a game console.

For the picture, I could easily make two shots within 10 seconds, which will let me appear fat on one and muscular on the second.

Even if he claims, he did not change his diet, he might have spent more time in front of the Wii instead of eating. That alone would save you some pounds (or kilos). Especially over the holidays Well, but here you have it, it still had an impact...

Last edited by Jorge on 20-Jan-2007 at 05:40 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)