@MikeB

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According to Gizmondo the PS2 game Final Fantasy XII looks almost identical or better if played on a PS3.

...and only "or better" because of better cables.

It seems like a bit of a hassle running older games compared to how seamless PlayStation emulation was on PS2 (and Xbox on 360). Having to press sync buttons, create virtual memory cards and what have we. I hope it's a one-off with the memory card and that you won't have to choose the virtual memory card every time you launch a game.

@vision

In all fairness $20 million is what is considered the most accurate amount, even though it has been speculated that the price was higher. I guess there might also have been some downtime while they moved the project from Saturn to Dreamcast.

Either way, $20 million is what it says in the Guinness Book of Records on Shenmue.

These days $20 million is much less. It's still a lot of money but many games are approaching the amount on a regular basis. Gears of War might well have been relatively cheap because they already owned the "middleware" they used for the game and didn't have to license it.

@Trezzer

I think Sony are releasing an adapter so that you can use the PS2 memory cards with the PS3. That should save the use of the virtual memory card (I hope).

@Trezzer

Quote:

Splinter Cell: DA

That's not a XBox 360 exclusive and the PS2 version can be played on the PS3. There will be a Wii version as well and there is even a GameCube version.

Regarding Elveon and Condemned, there are PC versions, so by definition they are not XBox 360 exclusives. One thing is IMO for sure, there's no technical reason why the PS3 would not be able to handle Condemned, IMO at best it looks like an average PS2 game.

@vision

Quote:

Simply the numbers don´t balance. It is MORE that 20 million, ok?

It may be slightly more, but according to the Guinness World Records it's 20 million USD, but in any account it's considerably less than 70 million USD.

@ Trezzer

What you wrote makes what I wrote above somewhat redundant.

Regarding Ubisoft's exclusives, Red Steel for the Nintendo Wii I am looking forward to try out. I am just interested to see how well it uses the Wii Controller. At least swinging weapons at enenies looks more interesting than is implemented in Condemned.

Last edited by MikeB on 14-Dec-2006 at 12:58 PM.

@Trezzer

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It's almost like the Good Old Days(TM) are back

You have a good point. Microsoft has XNA developer kits for home users. It's very approachable and has the possibility of bringing back the Amigaesque DIY videogame construction of the past. Indeed an interesting addition to the Xbox 360 ecosystem.

@MikeB

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: Quote: I'm quite pleased about the PS3 owners' fortune in this case. Usually it's the other way around. Which PS3 games were cancelled to become XBox 360 exclusives? Games developers making the decision to go multi-platform isn't quite the same thing and makes much sense if your game doesn't do anything another platform would not be able to deal with as well.

There are definitely decisions that were made to move from a PS3 exclusive to include the 360. I think this speaks about the quality of the hardware along with the ability of the developer to develop on the platform. IMO: Each time a title is exclusive it lends a bit more power to that console becoming the winner. When a title moves from exclusivity to multi-platform it equalizes the marketing of the console.

Here are some examples: Assassin's Creed, GTA IV, Fatal Inertia, Bladestorm: The 100yr war, and Guitar Hero.


For example: GH II is a title I desperately want and could buy today for my PS2. However, I prefer using the 360 then the PS2. There will likely be options to buy songs on line adding potential playtime with the title. It's worth it for me to wait for the 360 version.

@MikeB

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Apparently currently this isn't the case with all legacy software

Umm yeah that's why I said SOME in my posting.

@Trezzer

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And yeah, Motorstorm is something to look forward to. I might get it if I had a PS3. I'd be more interested in Virtua Fighter 5, though.

Some new VF5 videos
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/641/641054/vids_1.html

Not my type of game. According to IGN Full Auto 2 is a vast improvement over the XBox 360 version.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/749/749978p1.html

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII is almost identical only adding "two extra missions, 10 planes and an exclusive multiplayer mode"
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/750/750661p1.html

None of these are on my wishlist though. Still virtual fighter seems like a lot more fun than 'Rumble Roses XX' I have here on the XBox 360, sure the ladies are pretty well shaped but the game IMO lacks depth.

Rock N Wrestle for the c64 may be (a bit) less sexy looking, but I did enjoy the game a lot more at the time.

VS

@MikeB

Quote:

Regarding Elveon and Condemned, there are PC versions, so by definition they are not XBox 360 exclusives.

They're exclusives in the modern sense of the word. They're exclusives for this generation of consoles. Much like the GTA-series was exclusive on PS3 - for a while and FIFA/PES are 360-exclusives this year. An exclusive often no longer means what it used to.

Quote:

One thing is IMO for sure, there's no technical reason why the PS3 would not be able to handle Condemned, IMO at best it looks like an average PS2 game.

Mate, you need your eyes checked
It's not glitzy-bling-bling, but the subtle visual stuff in there as well as the physics marks it as one of the first true next-gen games (and it was one of the first)

And regarding Full Auto 2 - yeah, It does sound like it's a nice improvement. I'd expect it to be improved a lot in an updated 360 version too. The game is fun but somewhat tarnished by frame rate issues. I still enjoyed the game a lot, and hope to see a sequel that adds more to the gameplay - like different game modes. Despite the improved frame rates and other visual improvements it's still just a small incremental update. It'd be something I'd get if I didn't have the first one though. It's too bad they haven't gotten completely rid of the frame rate issues but at least we see some developers aren't sitting on their hands between game updates.

And yeah, Rumble Roses is the DOA Xtreme of wrestling. OK, that's not fair, because Rumble Roses is actually a slightly better game, but Rock N Wrestle beats them both hands down.

Quote:

Still virtual fighter seems like a lot more fun than 'Rumble Roses XX' I have here on the XBox 360

No sh*t Virtua Fighter is "only" the best fighting game in the world. Hands down. That's both from a gameplay perspective and a martial arts afficionado perspective. VF4 Evolution is still *the* fighting game.

Last edited by Trezzer on 14-Dec-2006 at 02:44 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 14-Dec-2006 at 02:42 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 14-Dec-2006 at 02:40 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

You have a good point. Microsoft has XNA developer kits for home users. It's very approachable and has the possibility of bringing back the Amigaesque DIY videogame construction of the past. Indeed an interesting addition to the Xbox 360 ecosystem.

Yes. I've never done any game coding in my life, but I'm still tempted to pony up and get cracking. More than a little in fact. The idea of having all that horse power at my finger tips is seductive indeed.

I've been reading up on their plans for future XNA improvements and they look *very* promising. I can recommend reading this interview. I especially like the ideas of starter kits, since that would be a huge help for someone like me. It's enough of a challenge to learn a programming language, but understanding the rest is no mean feat either when you're starting from scratch.

Letting users have full access to the 360's power makes it a more interesting development platform than the PS3 with Linux IMO. You don't get the overhead of Linux and you have full access to the hardware. It sounds like a dream platform really. All of a sudden I'm extra glad to have an x86 in my MacBook.

Extra link about how to get started with XNA

Last edited by Trezzer on 14-Dec-2006 at 02:51 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It's not glitzy-bling-bling, but the subtle visual stuff in there as well as the physics marks it as one of the first true next-gen games (and it was one of the first)

Maybe it's just too dark for me to appreciate the graphics, I will give the game another try tonight.

@MikeB

It's quite important to calibrate the screen for the game. IIRC it has something to help you do it in options or somewhere like that.

@MikeB

Quote:

Regarding Elveon and Condemned, there are PC versions, so by definition they are not XBox 360 exclusives. O

Come one. If it's on 360 and not on PS3, it's an exclusive. MS making it easy to port between Windows PCs and 360s tends to make that more likely, which is not the case for the PS3, no matter how you try to mince words about it.


Quote:

One thing is IMO for sure, there's no technical reason why the PS3 would not be able to handle Condemned,

Sure. I don't think there are games out the PS3 'can't handle,' but that's irrelevant when they aren't ported, for whatever reason...which was the focus of this sub-conversation.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

Come one. If it's on 360 and not on PS3, it's an exclusive. MS making it easy to port between Windows PCs and 360s tends to make that more likely, which is not the case for the PS3, no matter how you try to mince words about it.

I don't agree, there are more PCs out there then XBox 360s. So if you have a capable PC, you may prefer to get that version instead (like for instance Half-Life 2, which IMO is better played with a mouse).

@MikeB

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I don't agree, there are more PCs out there then XBox 360s. So if you have a capable PC, you may prefer to get that version instead (like for instance Half-Life 2, which IMO is better played with a mouse).

It doesn't really matter for the sake of the argument. I think people generally tend to play either on one platform or another when it comes to PC/consoles. Largely. And I'm not saying it's black/white either, because I might fire up an RTS now and then on a computer, but maintaining a serious PC gaming rig is just something I can't afford.

Another issue is that gaming on PCs involves broken DRM scheme after broken DRM scheme which get in your face and makes it hard to actually *enjoy* games. Luckily not all do this (I was pleasantly surprised about Earth 2160 for instance) but it's getting far too common and means that if a game exists for both platforms, I'll just get the console version instead - like Bard's Tale which I mentioned in the other thread. I got the PC version for free and could see it was a great game, but it was just horribly frustrating on the PC so ... buhbye. Went out and got it for Xbox instead.

As for the controller vs mouse argument.. that's about as tired as they come. People play with what they prefer and that's that. I'm not going to play FPS games using mouse + keyboard in the future. Not just because I don't keep a rig (my MacBook plays HL2 just fine actually) but because I don't like to play games using mouse/keyboard - it takes away from my game immersion. For others it's the other way around and that's fine.

Still... PCs and consoles are two different markets. If a game were coming to PC and PS3 but not 360 I'd consider that a PS3 exclusive in the console realm. The same goes the other way round obviously.

@Trezzer

Hi Trez, I have to say that its almost funny to read how excited you are about the XNA
and the 360 in general.
When I talked to you about the 360, 8 months ago
you swore that you would never get a 360 and when I argued that it (the 360) had great potential, you dismissed it completly
Times change ,hehe

/aakerlund(Paladine)

microA1
OS 4

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't agree, there are more PCs out there then XBox 360s. So if you have a capable PC, you may prefer to get that version instead (like for instance Half-Life 2, which IMO is better played with a mouse).

Sure (more PCs), but together, they both far outnumber PS3 titles, and it was a good move by MS to make ports between the two EASY on developers, which will continue to have '360/PC and NOT PS3 exclusives' (better wording? STILL exclusive to PC and 360, and excludes PS3).

Your argument here is doing little against the real one, that there are few PS3 exclusives, and there are 360 or 360 + PC titles that exclude the PS3.

controllers - I doubt this will be a real issue for long this gen...we'll have to see if anyone makes a controller like the 'mini palmpad' setup and if any console games use it..

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@aakerlund

You don't remember very well, do you ?

I said there was nothing on it that made me want to get one. Now there is and there has been for a while.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It's not glitzy-bling-bling, but the subtle visual stuff

OK, I tested the game some more. Maybe I am just spoiled by older PC games where I could smash just about anything, leap over or push aside the small stuff blocking my path, etc. The visual quality seems OK but nothing that makes me go "Wow!", sometimes light coming through the windows is nice and there are some nice shadows. It's nice to see how enemies hide and throw things around sometimes and makes me wish I could do the same...

Some parts from the cutscenes are nice, such as when the guy looks in the mirror in his dream. But overall the whole experience lacks atmospheric feeling, everytime it tells me when I am near an electric cable, a bar, etc to hit a button to pick it up this puts the emphasis on this all just being a game, while this is the sort of game which needs to have the emphasis put on realism. Woods I can't smash, doors I can't damage unless the game tells me to smash it with an axe, tiny desks or benches blocking my path, etc don't help.

@ wegster

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Sure (more PCs), but together, they both far outnumber PS3 titles

PS1. PS2 and PS3 titles combined greatly outnumber XBox + PC games/sales. I view the PC and XBox 360 as two different platorms, so I won't combine the XBox and PC market as being one, they are competing with eachother.

Last edited by MikeB on 15-Dec-2006 at 02:26 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 14-Dec-2006 at 11:08 PM.