@BrianK

Quote:

What's to say that Microsoft and/or Sony will make 0 changes before next Christmas with respect to console or price.

Agreed, that's what I stated though. I expect that the XBox 360 will drop in price after christmas.

Quote:

Also, what's to say the Wii isn't a player in the system?

Sure the Nintendo Wii is a major player, but I just think the PS3 and XBox 360 have more overlap in terms of features and general approach.

@MikeB

PS3 vs Xbox 360, A Developers Perspective
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm

Last edited by DaveyD on 08-Dec-2006 at 09:40 PM.

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@MikeB

I think you'll find, after 2007, the XB360 fans will insist the XB360 has "won" and the PS3 fans will say the PS3 has "won".

Meanwhile the Wii will do modestly well because, to give it credit, it has tried to be a little different and not bother to compete in the same arena.

FWIW, my vote goes with the PS3 because I think it is the more innovative solution if Sony don't shoot themselves in the foot as much as they have been of late. The XB360 games don't look materially more advanced than the PS3 offerings and it has had the time for maturity. Similarly to the Xbox1 vs PS2, the Xbox came out a little late and took a while to catch on, but it's later technology eventually won it some fans. The PS3 is more "recent" than the XB360 and the same may well happen in the long run.

Another factor is piracy. Sad though it is to factor in, I think the ease with which games could be ripped off on the Xbox1 was a major factor in it's popularity (and the more rabid members of its fanbase). Ironically, it's looking like the PS3 could be on the side of the pirates this time around, with "alternative OS's" and the already semi-ripped blu-ray things happening. There's also a hard-drive as standard and a lot of emphasis on compatibility with 3rd party stuff.

The main factor that puts me off both systems is the huge emphasis on the online content. Not all of us have the time, bandwidth allowance or inclination to download huge game images, or pay over and over for a game as we play it. I also personally prefer a really well-made single-player game over a multiplayer frag-fest (though they are fun too!).

@all

Ask any non-hardcore gamer with a console - they have a PS2. They will buy a PS3 as soon as they can afford to or when their PS2 dies next becuase they can take their fave game with them.

'nuff said frankly.

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Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
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@MikeB

Quote:

Agreed, that's what I stated though. I expect that the XBox 360 will drop in price after christmas.

I wouldn't think soon after Christmas. I bet they'll wait for a couple of factors -- first the PS3 to actually shipping in quantity and second the 65nm version of the Xenon processor.

Quote:

Sure the Nintendo Wii is a major player, but I just think the PS3 and XBox 360 have more overlap in terms of features and general approach

I agree they do. But, a slight drop of the price and the 360 might be able to dip into a bit more Wii marketplace.

***
Sort of related -- Nov 06 Console sales
918,000 - DS
664,000 - PS2
641,000 - Gamboy Advance
511,000 - 360
476,000 - Wii
197,000 - PS3
64,000 - Gamecube

Best selling Nov game -
1,000,000 + Gears of War - 360
896,000 - FF XII - PS2
412,000 - Twilight Princess
***

Next Christmas games..
Forza 2/Halo3/Shadowrun - 360
MGS4/Killzone2 - PS3
Super Mario Galaxy/ Super Smash Bros - Wii

@DaveyD

Quote:

The PS3's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory

DPS's are highly specialized chips limited in their abilities, while the SPEs of the CELL are more generalised RISC processors with very strong SIMD capabilities (featuring 128 registers, 128 bits each). Each SPE has 256k local store which is used as a cache.

Quote:

The PS3's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games.

The most computing-intensive part of modern games is physics. This is where the CELL is very strong. And the architecture of the CELL is also very flexible, so you can use a couple of SPEs for physics, another for audio surround effects calculations, yet another for some additional shading/graphical effects, etc.

@DaveyD

Quote:

I suspect a few years down the road some high budget, first party PS3 exclusive titles will come out that really take advantage of the SPU’s and do things the XBOX 360 can’t

I believe this will already be the case in time for the PS3's global launch. The problem with supporting the PS3 hardware to its limits is that game developers will run into major problem porting the game to other platforms, not offering equivalent feature sets.

The same would be the case if Thalion would have wanted to port Lion Heart to the Atari ST. Everything which makes Lion Heart a master piece on the Amiga would have had to be downgraded. Thalion's Enchanted Land was quite an Atari ST achievement but doesn't come anywhere close to Lion Heart.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Dec-2006 at 10:30 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I believe this will already be the case in time for the PS3's global launch. The problem with supporting the PS3 hardware to its limits is that game developers will run into major problem porting the game to other platforms, not offering equivalent feature sets.

But surely PS3 will have a decent online feature set soon, so the developers won't have to downgrade their games for it?

@Trezzer

Resistance: Fall of Man features a multiplayer mode for up to 40 players. A game patch will become available shortly to further improve online multiplayer.

Surely everything will be more polished in time for the PS3's global launch.

Anyway, IMO any shortcomings on that front will not hurt a XBox 360 version.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-Dec-2006 at 10:31 PM.

@MikeB

360 will own Xmas, or possibly Wii.

Why? Availability. Seems unlikely Sony will be able to supply enough to meet demand, and people are having much easier times getting the Wii and 360.

oops. You did say 2007. The above for 2006.

For 2007...hmm. Depends on how quickly next gen games come up to speed on the PS3, as well as if MS takes it to a pricing war. MS is likely to undercut pricing even further if they sniff victory, while I believe Sony more reluctant to drop pricing, so MS _could_ win on (loss of) money alone.

It also depends on what route Sony takes with 'opening' the PS3. Release specs and/or reference drivers for the RSX, and it would do better than the current situation as an STB (Nope, still not as a desktop replacement), which could increase sales somewhat.

Last edited by wegster on 08-Dec-2006 at 11:14 PM.

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@wegster

Quote:

For 2007...hmm. Depends on how quickly next gen games come up to speed on the PS3, as well as if MS takes it to a pricing war. MS is likely to undercut pricing even further if they sniff victory, while I believe Sony more reluctant to drop pricing, so MS _could_ win on (loss of) money alone.

Yeah, since they could lower the price already (as they're making a profit now), the only reason they aren't is that they can sell a huge amount of consoles at the current price which is very attractive compared to both Wii and PS3 - and they don't even have to worry much about those, because there is a limited amount of both while MS can probably deliver about as many as they want right now.

Once PS3 production gets up to full speed I bet we'll see a significant price drop, but there's no reason to do it while they have a license to print money with the current price level.

PS3 for me ;)

@MikeB

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/p-1.html

A comparison of the graphics of the PS3 against the Xbox 360.

When you finish to see and read it, try to say they are biased, or that the ps3 will improve with more time (of course, having textures with less detail has nothing to do with knowing how to improve the use the SPEs, it is just because the RSX is not as powerful as the Xenos).

Anyway, I am tired of this stupid propaganda.

What has this to do with Amiga? It is obvious this console will NEVER be an Amiga, because of many reasons that we all know, but the most important is that Sony will never be interested and will not allow the access to all the hardware.

So why don´t stop these silly questions that only 1 person is interested in?

@vision

Quote:

less detail has nothing to do with knowing how to improve the use the SPEs,

The more the SPEs take over GPU related work and support the GPU, the more time the GPU has to concentrate on other stuff. Those are just some quick ports, just to have their games out there on the market as quickly as possible. Maybe they think they have the ability to patch those games anyway later on....

I think such an approach is a mistake, when the really good games appear they will look like lazy companies in the eyes of many people. I expected the companies to at least make their conversions on par with the XBox 360, sadly we saw the same happening with early Atari ST ports for the Amiga. Consumers won't understand the difficulties regarding changing their XBox games engines to suit the PS3. The Ridge Racer team did a good job at this as is apparent especially in the new tracks they created.

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Dec-2006 at 11:40 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 09-Dec-2006 at 11:15 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 09-Dec-2006 at 11:06 AM.

Oh dear, I know I'm going to regret getting involved in this fanboy nonsense, but...

The graphics comparison article is obviously biased. A bunch of subjective waffle aimed at showing the XB360 is "best". You could have taken the same shots and argued the case for the PS3. (Eg, NFS Carbon and Marvel Heroes have clearly better lighting and colour on PS3, although I'll agree that COD looks best on the XB360.)

The article shows itself up particularly in the arguments claiming better lighting for the XB360 where the lights are washed out, yet argues the exact opposite for games where the PS3 version has brighter lights.

Face it, these are games that are essentially cross-ported and the differences seen are largely due to variations in scaling factors and other settings in the rendering system which nobody has bothered to tweak to match. Nothing there represents the true "capabilities" of either system, just the implementation. It's likely that both systems (the PS3 especially) are running a good proportion of vendor-supplied standard library code rather than directly hammering any hardware by clever custom drivers, since neither system has been pushed hard at all yet.

PS: I'm not saying the XB360 is inferior to the PS3 (or vice-versa), I'm just getting tired of these endless arguments based on fresh air.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @MikeB Quote: Lemmings 2 screenshots. Only $3 No that'd be $603!

$502 actually and that's much less than the £399 you had to pay in 1991 to buy an "cheap and affordable" A600 Lemmings bundle with 1 MB RAM and no harddrive.

£399 from 1991, taking in account inflation is equivalent to about $950.

@MikeB

Quote:

$502 actually and that's much less than the £399 you had to pay in 1991 to buy an "cheap and affordable" A600 Lemmings bundle with 1 MB RAM and no harddrive.

This is seriously getting rather ridiculous. The Amiga was a computer, not a game console. Yes, games were a major selling point but it was no games console. It had a keyboard, mouse, serious expansion capabilities, a full OS by default, etc. The PS3 is *no* computer, it can work like one if you install Linux but this is irrelevant, since it's not even its native OS.

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@AMiGR

OK, Sony says it's more than a games console, you say it isn't. Whom to believe?

Attaching a mouse and keyboard to a PS3 for general comfort, what do you think an A600 can do which a PS3 can't?

Lacking a harddrive many (/most?) A600 users seemed to use the computer specificly for playing games. The mouse was also handy for playing games like Lemmings, the keyboard was nice to quickly enter in your name, etc.

Wii ftw!

@MikeB

Yay. My Dreamcast ran Linux and KOS and WinCE and had a keyboard and a mouse. That was not a computer either. The Typing of the Dead rocked though.

Last edited by Trezzer on 09-Dec-2006 at 02:05 PM.