Good news. UbiSoft prepares the following European launch titles:

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas, Oblivion, Blazing Angels, Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent and Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2.

I think Europeans will have plenty of choice.

@MikeB

Oblivion is great. It's lucky for Bethesda it's so great, because they p'ed off half of their fans, including me.

First Oblivion created a corrupt cache (a very common bug), and continual loading made it unplayable. Luckily, you can clear it easily enough, but why not release a quick update on XBox Live? Not having played it before, I assumed it was just the game. How many took the game back to the shop?

About 30 hours in, I fell foul to the 'body in the well' bug, meaning I had to abandon something like 20 hours of play, even though I'd been saving regularly.

They took months to release a monolithic update but didn't give a clue of what would be in it - so I didn't know whether to play on or not. When it came, it only fixed it for games that hadn't got to that stage. This is despite a proper fix being a one line POKE / hack on the PC version. Thanks Bethesda!

Luckily, the PS3 version should be the mature release of the game...

Chris

@clebin

Quote:

Luckily, the PS3 version should be the mature release of the game...

So should Morrowind: Game of the Year Edition. Instead it added longer loading times and even more bugs. Yay.

@tbrminsanity

Quote:

The actual winner was the Wii, the underdog that no one thought would make it is now the number one selling games system this holiday season.

Whether it really was isn't clear yet. It probably did, but the numbers aren't out yet.

Quote:

It is cheap (making it easy on parent's pockets)

The price is actually what kept me away from it. The Wii + decent video cable = the cost of a 360 Premium.

Quote:

It has nostalgia factor (play all your old NES and SNES games all over again)

Personally I'm far more interested in the PC Engine games I never had the chance to play in the first place, but other than that it's correct. I'm sad to say the Virtual Console leaves quite a bit to be desired even if the games themselves run fine :(

I'd say the biggest reason is this: It's different, it's new and it's fun. Just like the DS.

@herewegoagain

Quote:

LOL, like where???

Have a look through the Digg archives - I think there were some online retailers as well.

Quote:

In every single store, there were Wiis

That's interesting. There are none here and they're fetching high prices on ebay still.

Quote:

I just hope those people who bought them to put on ebay and local paper ads get stuck with them and can't sell them, and in fact, I hope they loose money on them.

I think we all do.

Quote:

What's even more laughable is that this "mine is bigger" thread is 30+ pages long and says the same thing over and over on each page....

I don't know whether that is more laughable or if it's the same falsities and misunderstandings (like 1080i vs 1080p) that are repeated over and over again. At least a few nuggets of new information have popped up in the thread here and there.

I'd be happy to let the thread die, but not to let it be one-sided propaganda from someone who has a business interest in one of the machines.

@Trezzer

Hehe ok i'm taking bets now
I say Trezzer will be getting a Wii

Oh and i'm playing Legend of Zelda: Twillight Princess on the Gamecube,
it's a trippy game to say the least

/Paladine
microA1
OS4.0

@Paladine

Quote:

I say Trezzer will be getting a Wii

Just like I said with the 360 I'll be getting a Wii when prices are lower and there are more games that interest me. Hopefully the Virtual Console will be sorted out by then so you can actually try stuff before you buy - or at the very least see videos or full-sized screenshots of the games.

Quote:

i'm playing Legend of Zelda: Twillight Princess on the Gamecube

I only tried the beginning of the game on Wii. While it looks like a fine game I decided against getting it because I still have an unfinished Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker lying around >.< I guess I should stop buying a series if I don't complete any of the games eventually.

@Trezzer

Quote:

I'd be happy to let the thread die, but not to let it be one-sided propaganda from someone who has a business interest in one of the machines.

I consider that somewhat as an insult. I am not trying to sell people here a PS3 if that's what you like to believe, although I think a PS3 holds much potential for the Amiga community. I am trying to learn here, by sharing my thoughts and feelings with regard to the platform. I have been posting here for years, so this is where I discuss my perspectives.

You almost make this sound like a Amiga vs MorphOS thing at some forums. IMO many MorphOS advocates have been unable to discuss positive AmigaOS4 vs MOS related perspectives in an indepth manner without aiming for below the waist.

In some forums if you state "Well, I have both." and "Personally, I'd take OS4 over MOS any time. It just feels nicer to me." would get you in trouble, luckily much less on AmigaWorld.

@herewegoagain

Quote:

LOL, like where??? I've been to just about every big name chain as well as smaller stores in a 50 mile radius of Charlotte and there have been empty shelves with "Sold Out" signs where the PS3's were suppose to go. In every single store, there were Wii's and XBox 360's for sale on the shelf and in plentiful supply, but no PS3 in sight

No doubt PS3s are still shipping in smaller numbers then either Wii or 360. But, here I've been able to find PS3s on shelfs but not Wii. Related sites such as Ebay and Craigslist have noted Wii values much greater then list price where PS3 values have lower to near the list price.

Here Target had some PS3s on the shelfs both before and after the New Year's. I've not had your store full of Wii experience.


@MikeB
Quote:

Multiple companies have spent billions of USD and many manyears on development. IMO people should just relax a little, if you don't like the PS3's price tag then get a cheaper Nintendo Wii or Sony PS2 instead,

Or 360

Quote:

I think a PS3 holds much potential for the Amiga community

Yes lots of potential for the Amiga Community. It is HIGHLY unlikely we see AOS4 on PS3 ever, let alone this year. But if it does come then it's simply one more thing to buy for my PS3.

@MikeB

Quote:

I consider that somewhat as an insult. I am not trying to sell people here a PS3 if that's what you like to believe

I'm sorry, it's just been hard to see it as anything else considering the tone. A good recent example was that the thought of getting a 360 rather than a PS2 or Wii in place of a PS3 was so alien to you that you chose to omit it - or just didn't feel like realizing that the 360 is already here, has extremely similar amount of power (some argue it's even better suited all-round for games) and is much much cheaper. Yes, I know OS4 won't run on it ever - but nor will it on Wii or PS2. I'm guessing it probably won't on PS3 either.

Quote:

I am trying to learn here, by sharing my thoughts and feelings with regard to the platform.

I think the best learning would be done by finding some of the in-depth articles on the various platforms. Not looking at all of them would be doing yourself a disservice if you intend to discuss them at a later time at least.

Quote:

You almost make this sound like a Amiga vs MorphOS thing at some forums. IMO many MorphOS advocates have been unable to discuss positive AmigaOS4 vs MOS related perspectives in an indepth manner without aiming for below the waist.

Oh I wouldn't say that anyone has resolved to mud-slinging, but try to look at it from the other perspective: You keep posting things like 1080p being true hi-def while in reality experts state that there's so little difference between 1080i and 1080p it's not really worth caring about (no, 1080i is not a lower resolution than 720p) - at least for movies. The games where machines push 1080p/60 might deliver a more fluid impression of motion, but I haven't seen it side to side with 60 fps interlaced output, so I don't know how much you'll really notice it.

Either way: I'm getting tired of bringing up the same old arguments every time you serve the dish Sony handed you with their marketing propaganda. It's a bit of a Sisyfos task arguing against it, when two pages later you read the same thing repeated. If you're really doing this to learn I'd suggest actually reading some of the available material more thoroughly (plenty of it has been linked in these threads) and remember how Sony's propaganda was for last generation. I'm still waiting for those photorealistic graphics and downloadable movies + music on my PS2. Sony promised it. Of course they'll deliver. Right?

@Trezzer

Quote:

I'm sorry, it's just been hard to see it as anything else considering the tone. A good recent example was that the thought of getting a 360 rather than a PS2 or Wii in place of a PS3 was so alien to you that you chose to omit it - or just didn't feel like realizing that the 360 is already here

Look I am not selling anything to people here. Anything people buy from eBay or the local retaill stores I link to, I don't benefit from in any way personally. I don't consider the XBox 360 to be cheaper considering its hardware feature set, I think it's rather expensive, due to the limitations the core model provides I think this will also hurt premium owners for the long run (a harddrive isn't offered as minimum spec), so that's why I picked the Wii and PS2.

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't consider the XBox 360 to be cheaper considering its hardware feature set, I think it's rather expensive, due to the limitations the core model provides I think this will also hurt premium owners for the long run (a harddrive isn't offered as minimum spec), so that's why I picked the Wii and PS2

So you know how it reads to us is that you carry a heavy anti-microsoft bias and refuse to listen to things that might show you as incorrect.

As for no harddrive on the core somehow hurting premium owners it hasn't. In fact Microsofts offerings are more focused on getting the functionality out of the harddrive with their online offerings. Personally I think the core thing was dumb and Microsoft should dump it.

List price of a Wii, if you can find one, + component cables comes in at the list price for the core 360. Those are list. This Christmas at Microcenter there was a Premium Xbox360 w/ $100 rebate making it nearly the same price as your Wii + component cables. You know the extras you get with the 360 such as 1080p gaming ability and DVD playback -- things the Wii doesn't offer. The component cables come in the 360 box so you don't have to buy them extra. Many other businesses such as Wal-Mart and Target included a free game with the 360 again those 2 consoles then then but a game price away from each other.. You're seriously trying to sell the 360 as some outlandishly expensive console compared to the alternatives? This is where it appears your bias is Microsoft based more so then judging each console on it's own. Sorry but you can find the 360, at least in the USA, squarely in the running as far as price.

@BrianK

Quote:

As for no harddrive on the core somehow hurting premium owners it hasn't.

I think it even hurts the PS3 indirectly as some developers will try to support multiple platforms. IMO having a harddrive by default allows for more game design freedom.

Quote:

List price of a Wii, if you can find one, + component cables comes in at the list price for the core 360

The novelty about the Nintendo Wii isn't a component cable, it's the wireless controller. The core 360 comes with a wired controller.

If you want to reason like that a XBox 360 premium + Wi-Fi + HD-DVD drive + Yearly XBox live costs and with less harddrive space is by far more expensive than a PS3 premium.

@BrianK

Quote:

This Christmas at Microcenter there was a Premium Xbox360 w/ $100 rebate making it nearly the same price as your Wii + component cables.

Exactly. Wii is 2200 DKK here - the cheapest third party component cables are 300 DKK.
That puts it at 99 DKK less than the 360 Premium price (not list price but actual price - 2599 DKK). If we include the (admittedly stupid) Core system that comes in at 1999 DKK. However you'll have to add a memory card and component cables as a bare minimum. So yeah, it's the option that's there to make the Premium look really really good and little else.

The Wii comes with Wii Sports and 512MB of storage. The 360 comes with Hexic HD and 20 GB of storage as well as component cables.

Quote:

You know the extras you get with the 360 such as 1080p gaming ability and DVD playback -- things the Wii doesn't offer.

Not to mention a better online component than either one of the competitors and the best looking game currently available (also the winner of most game of the year awards so far). Oh yeah, and it also happens to have the largest (and arguably best) games catalogue of either three consoles yet, but it's hardly fair making a point of it due it its head start.

Quote:

at least in the USA

Even more so here in Denmark it seems.

Quote:

so that's why I picked the Wii and PS2

... which are even more limited? Where's the logic in that? I'm not trying to belittle the Wii, but you can have proper next-gen gaming (with harddrive!) at the same price as the Wii costs.

The PS2 has the advantage of being really cheap (999 DKK - within impulse buy range) and having a huge games catalogue so I can pretty much agree with you on that one - only due its really low price. Considering that just a little more gets you a 360 Core and a little bit more than that gets you a 360 Premium though... it's not that great a deal. Hardly future proof in any way except as a soon to be retro gaming machine.

The 360 has already demonstrated that it's more than ready to face the PS3 - and its price will go down as soon as Microsoft sees fit. Most likely when the PS3 comes down unless it suddenly gets a killer title or two and there's not one released at the same time on 360 to balance it out (not that the release schedules seem to indicate that at the moment - It's just pure conjecture).

@MikeB

Sorry Mike, but you've made your thread and you must lie in it (I've been waiting to use that line!)

Maybe we've gone too far in the 360 direction but it's understandable. Several of us have become frustrated with your posting in this thread, so please take a look at why.

When people are making really salient points, you skip over them, Helgis-style, and post some publicity - user feedback, a positive quote, a screenshot. That's not debating.

And worse, I can't remember one single sliver of a complement for the 360 in 32 pages. That statistic fails the fanboy test.

Chris

@MikeB

Quote:

The novelty about the Nintendo Wii isn't a component cable, it's the wireless controller.

No, it's the technology behind the controller.

Quote:

If you want to reason like that a XBox 360 premium + Wi-Fi + HD-DVD drive + Yearly XBox live costs and with less harddrive space is by far more expensive than a PS3 premium.

You're assuming people actually want it all. Some people don't and they have options this way. I for one won't get wi-fi for mine. I doubt I'll get HD-DVD (well, maybe some day but not till it's much cheaper - and that's the option I have ... you *have* to pay through the nose for the Bluray whether you want it or not - and it seems many are in the "or not" camp). If HD-DVD should fail MS can put out a Bluray drive. The PS3 still has Bluray if Bluray fails - adding to the cost of components. Yearly Live costs... Actually I haven't paid a dime yet. The times I've played online I've used some of the free cards that come with games and the first month of free Xbox Live. If I really get the time to get serious about online gaming I'll gladly pay for the superior service.

I'm guessing I'll be renting some movies when the movie store is rolled out over here though.

So at the end of the day: My 360 still cost me 2599, it plays hi-def movies, does 1080p, has games that run as well or better than the PS3, it has an awesome games selection, a well-designed interface, a varied selection of games with trial versions for all of them etc. etc.

The PS3 on the other hand still costs 5500 DKK + a minimum of 300 DKK for an HDMI cable (unless you happen to have PS2 component cables lying around). Where is my option to get rid of some of the stuff I don't need so I can get a cheaper machine?

Quote:

If you want to reason like that

Actually it's not unreasonable at all. Composite cables are just not acceptable for anything > 21" TVs. 28" and larger are probably in the majority and while the Wii has fairly decent quality composite cables you still see horrible colour bleeding. I truly consider this a necessity and would have had to add one to the 360 Premium price had it not been included. That's also what makes the Core a really bad deal.

Last edited by Trezzer on 03-Jan-2007 at 08:47 PM.
Last edited by Trezzer on 03-Jan-2007 at 08:43 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

If you want to reason like that a XBox 360 premium + Wi-Fi + HD-DVD drive + Yearly XBox live costs and with less harddrive space is by far more expensive than a PS3 premium.

Wi-fi is a stupid omission in the 360 (even the DS has it!) and the USB adapter is over-priced.

The HD-DVD is an optional purchase. Either you want high-def movies or you don't. I don't as I don't buy or rent films, but others will. It is a shame that they couldn't have made it a slide-in replacement for the DVD drive as it's a clunky solution as it stands.

As for XBox Live, I'd like a fair comparison of on-line gaming between the two systems. In the last generation, XBox Live was worth every penny as it was a superior service (and of course it's still excellent). I haven't posted about this because I don't know enough about the PS3 service.

Chris

@clebin

You are wrong there I mentioned the XBox 360's "Nice looking system interface", ability to use custom soundtracks during gameplay, I stated Gears of War is visuallly impressive and plays better with the XBox controller than I expected, I like Kameo and Tomb Raider Legend very much, upscales DVDs, etc.

But the things which has got me interested the most in the PS3 is the Cell processor and "other OS" support. If some replies wouldn't have been overly negative I wouldn't have provided so much information pointing towards opposite viewpoints.

@MikeB

Quote:

But the things which has got me interested the most in the PS3 is the Cell processor and "other OS" support.

I agree that it's a nice feature but I also think it somewhat of a novelty. I may change my mind eventually, but for now...

The processor is not interesting by itself any more than another processor. Especially in a video game machine where it's the total of the parts that make or break it. Sure, it's fine to be fascinated by its design and it's certainly a novel design. The question is whether it's a practical design - we'll see.

As both the Wii and the DS show, though, ... it's all about the games.

Last edited by Trezzer on 03-Jan-2007 at 08:50 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

You're assuming people actually want it all.

I am not assuming anything, choice is good but I don't think the XBox 360 is really a cheap solution. Like with the PS3 you will need to own a suitable display to fully enjoy high definition gaming. The Nintendo Wii and PS2 aren't about offering the most amazing graphics.

But there seems to be more demand for the more expensive PS3 model with 60 GB HD and Wi-Fi. So it seems for many current PS3 buyers 599 USD isn't too much and the extra cost (100 USD) is well worth the additional features.