@jtsiren

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As far as respect goes, I guess Nintendo would get most of mine of the three.

Yeah, they are not playing this loss-leader game. Even Peter Moore has nothing but good things to say about Nintendo. MS doesn't see Nintendo as "direct" competition. Which they are not.

Nintendo is not trying to be a media center, are not trying to push a proprietary media format, are not claiming to be a super computer that runs LINUX. MS's fear is that the Playstation brand could evolve into an all-emcompassing media device which directly competes with their "Media Center PC" business.

MS even released Age of Empires for the DS, though now that they have the Zune, you probably won't see that happen again.

It's funny. I now start to see Nintendo as the PC of yester-year from the Amiga/Atari days that wasn't as high-tech but kept evolving "slowly" and just hung around and eventually, almost everything else just eventually went out of business.

@MikeB

First, wasn't your point not attacking competitors directly and just minding your own products, which Sony was so great doing?

Secondly, the table lists two items, namely the HDD and a wireless controller (I took this to mean the "joystick"), for a total of $150 that you are "required" to add to the Core when you can get both of these and more in Premium for $100 (or in the case of Core you'd have two controllers then). You also aren't required to the HDD if you don't want to.

Any comparisons of being "on par" would be silly since Nintendo Wii is also in the Sony's chart so all we can conclude is that they are being misleading about competitor's products for marketing purposes. To see the chart any differently would be, IMHO, insanity. Again to be fair, Microsoft shouts out similar stuff too.

I sure didn't pay any more for my Xbox 360 experience than the Premium price and for extra controllers which you need to get separately for PS3 too (including the fantastic Microsoft rumbling force-feedback wheel). I do have Live as well, although I haven't really used it since original Xbox (other than tried), my bad for not having enough time for single player gaming either.

But again, not about the price for me at this level. Compared to AV enthusiasts, being a console gamer is cheap. I do agree that as a Blu-ray-player in the current market it is a bargain (but mostly because Blu-ray-players are insanely expensive) and that's nice for Blu-ray. Sony isn't expensive when you consider that. The problem is, from a market point of view (not my point of view though), that it is expensive for a gaming console.

You can get into true next-gen gaming with Xbox 360 Core at $299. You can, you truly can. You might do well to dish a few tens extra for a memory card or some third-party video cable, but for many families with e.g. kids that might be the extent of the investment, even if us older gamers look in disbelief and go get the Premium ourselves.

That is quite a gap to $499 and I guess that is what the market sees as a problem and part of the reason why Wii sells so well (in addition to it being insanely fun, at least for short periods of time).

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any account it's even misleading, as the HD-DVD drive is a single speed version and cannot be used for gaming, so you are not on par anyhow.

Oh my... well the PS3 doesn't have rumble so they lose, right?

I mean, isn't that just silly?

@jtsiren

Quote:

As far as respect goes, I guess Nintendo would get most of mine of the three.

Certainly, luckily at large they can stay out of all the mudslinging. They expect to sell 100 million software DS units in just one year, which would be mind boggling, espcially for a relatively small company like Nintendo! I own one too.

However regarding the Nintendo Wii vs PS3 I agree with IGN on this one for the long run (often I don't):
http://bestof.ign.com/2006/gear/1.html

People have already managed to distribute Linux games for the PS3 on DVD, if they would add Nintendo Wii controller support and some Wii-sports inspired games (hopefully SPE enhanced for fast 3D graphics), I will likely buy a standalone Wii controller for the PS3!

Wishful thinking: I think a PS3 or 4 would be powerful enough support VR headsets in amazing ways. IMO that could really revolutionize the gaming industry, we have already seen motion tracking used in Virtual Reality. The PS3 is able to render stored images as falling photographs is a nice novelty.

But imagine what could someday become possible with VR support. Imagine watching a Blu-Ray movie through a VR headset, with you appearing to be seated in a cinema watching the movie played on a large screen in the virtual distance. Imagine yourself driving Gran Turismo 6 with a steering wheel, looking from the car's interior, being able to quickly move your head to see who's driving next to you. If only I could be Sony's CTO.

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Jan-2007 at 06:57 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Sony President Kaz Hirai's comments yesterday, when he said"no other next generation entertainment system pushes the envelope on advanced technology like PS3", Microsoft's Peter Moore and Chris Satchell have hit back with a scathing attack on Sony.

Oh yes, Let's talk about Kaz Hirai shall we?

Mr. "I wish that they [Microsoft] would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do. If you look at their strategy in other business areas as well, they tend to do that."

Yes, because Sony are doing all the invention here. Just look at their awesome Xbox Live, their online movie store announced right after Microsoft did it, their brilliant invention in the console space: motion controlled games (Nintendo) and rumble (Nintendo) in their controllers. Oh yeah, strike the last one, because they didn't even bother to pay for it.

Oh, and Sony were shooting down Microsoft for doing two console versions which confuses the customers. It's a good thing there's only one PS3 model. Wait haaaang on...

Oh, and why did the PlayStation come about in the first place? Oh yeaaah. It was because of Nintendo. But it's all coincidence. Sony would never be a copycat or follow trends. That's why it stayed out of the handheld market with the PSP. Oh wait. D'oh!

How long do you think it'll be till Sony announce IPTV for PS3?

I bet he's going to claim that PS3 launched world-wide as the first console ever next...

Oh, and how about this little golden nugget? "If you take a look at the number of motion picture titles that sell through on the UMD video side of the business, that's a feature that consumers have embraced. It's not just some feature on a sell sheet. "

Yes. UMD is doing really well as we all know.

Or how about "It's been that way for three console generations. History has a way of proving the forward-looking things that we say. With our original PlayStation, we ushered in the era of the CD-ROM and 3-D. With the PlayStation 2, we correctly said that the next-generation starts with PS2, not Dreamcast."

Well, if it weren't for the fact that 3DO was the first with 3D and CD-ROM (by 2 years!). Saturn also came before it, but ok that was rushed.

As for next generation and Dreamcast: We've yet to see a single game on PS2 deliver the quality of online games the Dreamcast delivered and where's that Shenmue beater?


While we're at it we can grab a Phil Harrison too: "We do not need the PC."
I'll just kinda leave that hanging in the air for a bit...

@MikeB

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The RSX greatly simplifies the porting of existing games, I think by adding this they made the right decision.

Oh but geez Mike, you don't like ports.

Remember you want them to be built for PS3 from the ground up unlike that stupid Microsofty DirectX crap which makes porting as easy as toggling a flag. It's not the real elite!

@MikeB

Quote:

being able to quickly move your head to see who's driving next to you.

Yeah, it was quite good fun to have controllable head movement in the launch title Project Gotham Racing 3. Of course since your exterior mirrors are broken if you drive Gran Turismo-style, I guess it's not as practical. But you could always use your third arm to hold up a PSP as a rear view mirror.

...and hilarity ensues. Sony THOUGHT they won an award for the sixaxxis but they didn't.

Last edited by Trezzer on 10-Jan-2007 at 01:32 PM.

@jtsiren

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post, but overall I agree with you. Regarding PR Sony does a bad job overall, so does Microsoft, IMO even more so.

Sure not everyone may wants all the features provided by the PS3, but for many people me included the additional features are well worth the additional cost. I think in the end all future PS3 owners will benefit from higher basic standard. IMO shipping a PS3 without a harddrive or Blu-Ray would hurt PS3 game development for the long run. Now the PS3 clearly distinguished itself from the PS2. God of War 2 for the PS2 already looks like a worthy Next Gen class game:

http://www.us.playstation.com/content/ogs/SCUS-97481/site/default.html

@MikeB

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The PS3 is able to render stored images as falling photographs is a nice novelty.

Yeah it can. So can my MacBook. Heck, I guess my A1 might be able to too.

Any coders up for it? Wouldn't you like to see it on your A1 too Mike?

@MikeB

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od of War 2 for the PS2 already looks like a worthy Next Gen class game:

That you think PS2 games look like next-gen games really puts everything you've said into perspective. And no, it doesn't even look as good as, say, Enchanted Arms which was a really early title (it's coming for PS3 too, so be careful not to bash it - can't have that).

@Trezzer

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Oh but geez Mike, you don't like ports.

Please don't put words into my mouth. Sure I liked the fact the Amiga was able to play some Atari ST games I owned before this. But IMO to show off the PS3 hardware capabilities it's better the game is designed specifically with the hardware in mind.

Sure I will try out the 'The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion' port for the PS3, I think this may actually be the best game the XBox 360 has to offer so far. However I don't expect many PS3 enhancements.

According to a guy I'm talking to right now on IRC:

If you were counting on using an older screen with HDMI but no HDCP you may have to forget it.

He's finding that "PS3 won't output to non HDCP monitors games via HDMI"

He googled around and found that was hidden away somewhere on IBM's website that PS3 won't output to HDMI if the devices aren't HDCP compliant.

@Trezzer

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hat you think PS2 games look like next-gen games really puts everything you've said into perspective.

The video looks impressive, up the resolution to 720p and yes I would consider the game to be worthy (or at 480p on a Wii). Sure 'God of War 3' for the PS3 will most likely outshine part 2.

Unlike with Gears of War you actually get to fight these huge monsters, those huge things coming out of the ground don't do anything special, there's no real interaction with them, Beserkers look great but like those shooting creatures, you can't really do much with them, other than using the Hammer of Dawn on them...

Last edited by MikeB on 10-Jan-2007 at 01:57 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Beserkers look great but you can't really do much other than using the Hammer of Dawn on them...

Yeah that's called *gasp* game design. It's part of the game to figure out how to get to use the hammer of dawn instead of just loading up the hollywood clips and firing away.

You may not appreciate it and that's fine, but it's not as if it's not intentional from Epic's side.

@MikeB

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IMO Microsoft should get their marketing act together and focuss on their own products instead of attacking others like this

Of course exactly the same thing can be said about Sony. The 360 was out a year before the PS3 and quite a bit during that year Ken spent attacking Microsoft and failing to explain why features were being eliminated from the PS3.

@MikeB

Is this an early attempt at Sony canibalizing the Blu-Ray market for itself? Descent has Blu-Ray w/ Java needs. The only thing that will do this is the PS3. Which puts those who have purchased their $1K Blu-Ray player a bit at odds with Sony as there's now Blu-Ray content they can't use with their investment. For Blu-Ray's sake I hope this is not a trend.

@BrianK

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Is this an early attempt at Sony canibalizing the Blu-Ray market for itself? Descent has Blu-Ray w/ Java needs

Unlikely, Lionsgate released that title not Sony (Imagine all the fuss if they did). Standalone Blu-Ray players including those from Sony require a firmware update to play this movie.

@MikeB

Quote:

Unlikely, Lionsgate released that title not Sony (Imagine all the fuss if they did). Standalone Blu-Ray players including those from Sony require a firmware update to play this movie.

To me that looks like a huge logistics problem. Are consumers going to be willing to bring in their equipment or hook them up the the internet to update firmware? I can't see Grandma understanding why her DVD player works with every movie but she's got to bring her HD-DVD player in so it can play newer movies. Many of us here are biased since we're into computers and the Amiga, which is strongly DIY, thinking that DIY is acceptable to everyone. It's a consumer player it should just work. It's nice that they are upgradeable but Sony best not make that a habit w/ Blu-Ray otherwise they'll start turning off the client base. (And I say Sony as they are the one's leading the Blu-Ray charge, collecting licensing fees, and seemingly heading up the format)

@Lou

Quote:

MS even released Age of Empires for the DS, though now that they have the Zune, you probably won't see that happen again.

Poor Zune... doesn't sell that good. And what now, that the iPhone is out ?

_________________
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µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
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@Trezzer

Quote:

motion controlled games (Nintendo) and rumble (Nintendo) in their

You mean, like Nintendo are the good guys and would never clone ? Might be the reason they got sued, err. Must have been a mistake...

Quote:

How long do you think it'll be till Sony announce IPTV for PS3?

Sure, IPTV is original, but location free video (how long is that available, 1 or 2 years now ?) is not ? Well, whatever. Must be the reason why Apple is selling iTV for $299,00 now.

Quote:

Yes. UMD is doing really well as we all know.

Who cares. I get game on it. I care less about anything else. Nobody claims Gameboys mem cardridges are used for any thing else.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)