@MikeB

Quote:

How's that for reasoning? RR6 was the second best selling XBox 360 game at the time in Japan!

From the perspective that a lot more hardware is sold for PS3.
I haven't done the maths, though, so maybe it evens out.

It probably helped it that Famitsu gave it a favourable review, though (scoring 1 or 2 higher than Ridge Racer 6). Although that didn't help to boost DOA X2 much apparently (which was a big title in Japan last time around).

Last edited by Trezzer on 13-Feb-2007 at 09:19 AM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

It will be interesting to see if PS3 can push it even higher. At least Sony should have had time to prepare properly this time around.

I think the platform will perform much better, like I said from a games console perspective the console wasn't entirely ready for the mass market (bad press). But considering the PS3 is a lot more than just a games console, in terms of Linux and Blu-Ray the early release could be a very good decision. Blu-Ray received a shot in the arm and seems to be pushing HD-DVD into the background (This will likely continue within Europe with the free Casino Royale for the first half million PS3 PSN registrants), an early settlement on this front will benefit current Blu-Ray enthusiasts and future consumers of HD media, also people interested in the Cell and or Linux development such as Jorge and many others are able to already investigate the Cell processor through Linux.

From a game console perspective the European launch now seems to be a lot more interesting with a major firmware/system OS upgrade ready in time for the launch. Following is a list of games which should be available at launch:

1) MotorStorm
2) Resistance: Fall of Man
3) Virtua Fighter 5
4) The Elder Scrolls lV: Oblivion
5) Fomula One CE
6) Virtua Tennis 3
7) Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell: Double Agent
8) Def Jam: Icon
9) Fight Night Round 3
10) Tekken: Dark Resurrection

11) Ridge Racer 7
12 NBA Street 4 Homecourt 2007
13) Lemmings
14) Go! Sudoku
15) Go! Puzzle
16) Blast Factor
17) flOw
18) Super Rub’a'Dub
19) Call of Duty 3
20) Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
21) Tony Hawk’s Project 8
22) Gundam – Target in Sight
23) Full Auto 2: Battle Lines
24) Sonic the Hedgehog
25) Genji: Days of the Blade
26) World Snooker Championship 2007
27) NBA 2K7
28) NHL 2K7
29) Blazing Angels Squadrons of WWll
30) Enchanted Arms
31) Need for Speed Carbon
32) The Godfather: The Don’s Edition
33) Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007
34) Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom
35) F.E.A.R. Vivendi
36) Gripshift

Now that's what I call an impressive launch game line-up. Also God of War 2 for the PS2 will be released at the time of the PS3's launch, surely ensuring some good feelings amongst many PS2 gamers towards Sony. The HD Eyetoy and games supporting this cam 'The Eye of Judgment' and SingStar for the PS3 should also be available around that time.

Spring and summer will continue to be interesting with high profile exclusives like Heavenly Sword, Warhawk and Lair becoming available. I think Christmas 2007 is gonna ROCK!

Last edited by MikeB on 13-Feb-2007 at 12:58 PM.

Some additonal info with regard to Gran Turismo 5:

Translated from French:

"Sony Computer Entertainment France has just assure us officially that Gran Turismo HD will be available as of March 23 in Europe. Like the Japanese version, it will be downloadable free on Playstation Store. It is reminded to us that this version contains 1 circuit and 10 cars.

It is also taught us that Polyphony DIGITAL will launch as of the autumn 2007 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, in download too. In more of the new vehicles and circuits, the players will have for the first time the possibility of playing on line. Sony benefits from it to announce the startup of Gran Turismo Network. As for Gran Turismo 5, one specifies us that its exit from now on is announced for spring 2008."

http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/gt-5-gt-hd-g...ctu-69630.html

@MikeB

Quote:

Now that's what I call an impressive launch game line-up

To be honest, the launch delay for Europe was a good thing. a) Sony will get momentum a second time (they can report a launch again -> press coverage) and b) you guys over there get spoiled with launch titles ( but, I'll have Motorstorm earlier on March, 5 he he).

I have games on my most wanted list which exceeds the PS3 costs until April...damn...gotta make some decisions.

One sad thing, though. The PS2 games don't look that good on my HD TV any more...they are fine with a 480i tube, but on the 42" TFT...well, I still have the PS2. I'm curious if e.g. a SW emulation could be actually faster then metal (e.g. on high cpu loads). This also applies to God of War. Won't play it on the PS3...

BTW: I was confused, as some sources seemed to report GoW runs in 720 on the PS3, however:

Quote:

Editor's Correction: After posting the review, we've gotten word from an SCEA representative that the game will support 480p on the PlayStation 3 but not 720p. Our error was due to crossed information and we're sorry for the confusion. We will report back once we have the final copy in our hands.

Guess not, ha ? (would have surprised me anyway - there is still a physical PS2 in the PS3, with the same limits. Unless they put PS3 specific code in there, I'd guess it won't happen - I am curious if a PS2/PS3 hybrid would be technically possible, though).

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/763/763624p3.html

Last edited by Jorge on 13-Feb-2007 at 02:17 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Hopefully the software emulation of PS2 is ready soon - and hopefully the games will scale by then as they do on 360. It breathes new life into games like Halo, Forza etc. to play them again in 720p and with added anti-aliasing.

There are a few PS2 games I'd like to play again if they were upscaled and had AA - especially the latter ruined the looks of many PS2 games. I suppose it's too much to ask that it processes the textures to improve them even though that's something the Cell could potentially be good at.

I would be very surprised if PS3 doesn't do great at the beginning in Europe. There must be demand for it to sell out and generate queues, anything else would be a huge surprise. However, what is most interesting is how long this will hold up (look at what happened in the U.S.). Wii is *still* sold out/sells out quickly in Finland. I almost pulled the plug on the Wii, but luckily it was sold out (I don't really need it).

As for my personal perception of PS3, nope, hasn't changed. I'm not going to be in one of those queues, unfortunately. I have the money saved and had the original interest, but reality is what it is. I will keep an eye on it, though. If it and its games mature to such a level that it is beyond Xbox 360 or that I want one for some other reason, I will certainly buy it.

At the moment I find it more likely that I will never buy it, maybe I'll get that HDMI Xbox 360 some day instead. I will certainly report here if I change my mind and why that happened, stranger things have happened in the past...

@Jorge

Quote:

Guess not, ha ? (would have surprised me anyway - there is still a physical PS2 in the PS3, with the same limits.

Well, the PS2 CAN output 1080i (unfortunately not 720p as some Xbox games did), so that could have been a possibility.

@Jorge

Quote:

One sad thing, though. The PS2 games don't look that good on my HD TV any more...they are fine with a 480i tube, but on the 42" TFT...well, I still have the PS2.

I wonder do you use a HDMI cable? At least with regard to blurriness this should make a major difference as the composite connections on the PS3 aren't really that good according to some various PS3 owners (they state absolutely looks cleane to themr,the console is more geared towards HDTVs and HDMI is optimal for this, with 7.1 surround audio and 1080p HDMI is considered a must).

But like I said earlier the TV you were interested in, was the only TV I read about which had some unclarified HDMI 'handshake or such' problems with the PS3. They fixed this with their newer models. If you are using HDMI and have this TV you mentioned earlier, have you experienced any flickering?

Quote:

Guess not, ha ? (would have surprised me anyway - there is still a physical PS2 in the PS3, with the same limits. Unless they put PS3 specific code in there, I'd guess it won't happen - I am curious if a PS2/PS3 hybrid would be technically possible, though).

This specific game was announced to become 'HDTV optimised'., I guess what this exactly means will become public around the time of release (at least the game is 480p and not 480i).

Last edited by MikeB on 13-Feb-2007 at 06:01 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think the platform will perform much better, like I said from a games console perspective the console wasn't entirely ready for the mass market

It truly wasn't ready for the mass market. The PS3 online features are still lacking it seems to be developer driven not market driven. Updates are still coming to fix things that are wrong while we see other's in the market updating to enhance and expand service to the mass market. Lack of a hardware video scaler has shown itself to be problematic that we've seen with patches for patches.

Europe is sure to benefit by not having to experience the growing pains the US and Japan have.

You like quotes from these companies. You've commented on how the press hates Sony. But a large part is because they do it to themselves. Here's one example.

PlayStation 3 launch has been, objectively by any measure, more successful than PlayStation 1, PlayStation 2 or other competing system out previously.
--Phil Harrison

Competiting systems ? Nov-Dec 05 the 360 sold 1.5M+ machines. Nov-Dec 06 the Wii sold 1.8M+ Nov-Dec 06 360 the 360 sales bested the PS3. From Nov- first week of Jan 07 sold 1.5M+ machines. --- Don't wonder why the press hates Sony they do this crap to themselves. From what I remember the press historically loved the PS1 and PS2.

@MikeB

480i games just don't look good on big televisions regardless of connector (although, yes, component/vga/hdmi will make it marginally better). 480p is really the minimum for a reasonably good looking picture.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Well, the PS2 CAN output 1080i (unfortunately not 720p as some Xbox games did), so that could have been a possibility.

Well, I had the PS2 running under Linux in 1280x1024 on a VGA monitor (with sync on green, only, argh). Well, even 720p should be possible I'd guess. Is just the question how many polygons one can push with the 200MHz MIPS cpu at that resolution.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@BrianK

Quote:

Nov-Dec 05 the 360 sold 1.5M+ machines.

No shipped, not sold to customers. The second week of January Sony also shipped and sold 2 million units to retail.
Microsof's claim was:

"By year's end, Microsoft had sold 1.5 million units; including 900,000 in North America, 500,000 in Europe, and 100,000 in Japan."

XBox 360 for 2005
Area \ Shipped \ Actually sold \ difference
US \ 900,000 \ 674,500 \ 25%
Japan 100,000 \ 86,750 \ 13%
Europe 500,000 \ Unknown, but estimated to be 300,000-400,000 with a very large chunk in the UK

Total estimated between: 1,061,000 - 1,161,000

The PS3 sold more in 2006 in the US and Japan
US: 780,500
Japan: 477,000

Total confirmed: 1,257,500

It will be interesting to see if the PS3 does better or worse in Europe, but tracking is very difficult. I don't think the Nintendo Wii will be much of a competitor for the long run, they are aimed at different customers. IMO the PS2 may well be seen as the Nintendo Wii's rival for 2007 as a whole. I expect more and more people will want better grahics by 2008 and beyond.

@Trezzer

Yes, I agree. And since I have 15 HD TV channels, I find myself even watching less TV - unless its broad casted in HD. Its brutal what HD does as soon as you have it, and you will realize that, as soon as you have it. Also, same with DVD. I would have to look into a good upscaling DVD player, but then, BluRay will hopefully have new releases out faster, so there is no need for that (I am wondering why I bought all this Widescreen DVDs - useless now. What was I thinking ? Buying a widescreen SD TV ?).

So, it's not about the games alone, its SD TV in general. But I agree, a SW emulation could do some tricks to the GS which wouldn't be possible in HW. But then again, there will be so many PS3 titles out there, that nobody will bother any more.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Some scalers can actually make your dvds look as good or better than your HD releases. Sure, sooner or later (probably later) dvds won't be a big factor, but then you'll at least still have a great looking back catalogue without buying everything again.

Quote:

But then again, there will be so many PS3 titles out there, that nobody will bother any more.

Personally I don't stop playing games on one platform because newer games come out on other platforms. I even play PlayStation games like Vib Ribbon, Parappa the Rappa, Vagrant Story and so on - or even older things like 8 or 16 bit games.

For some it's only about the latest games, but a lot of people want to continue to use old games if they're just as fun (or in some cases more fun). I like the balance that XBLA strikes (and presumably the PSN store will too) where older games get a facelift so they at least utilize higher resolutions and look as good as they can in those instead of running in 480i/p.

@Trezzer

Quote:

although, yes, component/vga/hdmi will make it marginally better

I think this also depends on the quality of the component cables used. I will try to explain:

The PS3 generates images in a digital format (the RSX creates everything in digital). With regard to using analog, the PS3 starts digitally, converts this information to analog, analog is sent over cables, the TV converts the analog signal to digital (signal loss), then displays digital. Since the device sends an analog signal through the cables, this signal (unlike with HDMI cables) can be affected by noise / interference (further signal loss or distortion), so people will need to make sure the cables are well shielded.

Also with regard to high fidelity stereo and surround 7.1 audio, as supported by games like Lair, Motorstorm and Resistance HDMI is required (also regarding 1080p/60FPS support on the PS3!). Anyhow HDMI cables are cheaper than component cables.

Last edited by MikeB on 13-Feb-2007 at 07:16 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 13-Feb-2007 at 06:52 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 13-Feb-2007 at 06:52 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Some scalers can actually make your dvds look as good or better than your HD releases.

Scalers can improve the quality of DVDs on displays. But unless the HD content was of really bad quality, native 1080p content like Blu-Ray on a good 1080p display will always look better than a native 480p DVD upscaled towards 1080p...

@MikeB

Quote:

No shipped, not sold to customers

Yawn.. We've heard the point from you a million time.

US numbers you give for actual sold are truly estimated sold. The 360 was difficult to come by until nearly July. This 25% figure in the US would at best be 'in shipping' as they flew off the shelves. 25% is high the # was likely closer to 10%. Now in Japan they were moving slower then the US. That 13% you give looks a bit more realistic for not only Japan but the USA.

Saying the Wii won't cross over to owners who own a PS3 is simply false. The Wii's job is to get people gaming. They are trying an approach that not only appeals to the gamers but to a segment of the market that historically aren't videogamers. If Europeans want better graphics vs the Wii the Xbox360 is nearly the same and sometimes less expensive option, depends on country.

@MikeB

Quote:

Scalers can improve the quality of DVDs on displays. But unless the HD content was of really bad quality, native 1080p content like Blu-Ray on a good 1080p display will always look better than a native 480p DVD upscaled towards 1080p...

Unfortunately there's little native 1080p content. Most things today is film which is converted to 480p or 1080p. The conversion process interjects another area to make errors in. And yes Trezzer is right there is the possibility that an upscaled 480p may in fact look better.

Also, not everything was meant to be in 1080p. Ever see local news which used to be 480i now broadcast in 1080i? The sets had to be changed. The makeup on the broadcasters need to be more subtle. There are differences which the local news channels have made. Using SD flaws are much easier to cover then in HD. HD-DVD of Army of Darkness is a good example. Film hands down looks better. However, the special effects look worse because the modeling wasn't meant for a 1080p viewing the director allowed flaws that wouldn't show on SD.

Supposedly this is now showing up in porn. Actressess typically have plastic surgery, breast implants is one thing, and in SD it was much easier to hard strech marks and scars from the operation. Now in HD they are harder to cover and unless the makeup is light and well blended the women look off. So yes 480p porn is easier to do and hides these imperfections.

@MikeB

You go on and on with your silly accentuation of text. Haven't you noticed you're the only one doing it? The reason no-one else is doing it is because it's annoying and ill-mannered.

I don't think there's anyone who isn't aware of the difference between digital and analogue. I think only fanboys bother to make a point of it, though.

I don't know where you're looking, but here component cables are dirt cheap and HDMI cables not as cheap.

@MikeB

Quote:

Scalers can improve the quality of DVDs on displays. But unless the HD content was of really bad quality, native 1080p content like Blu-Ray on a good 1080p display will always look better than a native 480p DVD upscaled towards 1080p...

Yeah, that's what I thought too until recently - and for the same reasons you do. Some of the scalers out there are quite simply insane, though. i guess you pretty much have to see it to believe it.