@MikeB

Quote:

OK, I maybe I should have written "XBox fan" instead of plural as it was mostly just you.

Well, perhaps you should open your eyes and note that what I say merely echoes the sentiments all over the web.

Great job with quoting out of context as usual btw Mike. Kudos.

You win the special olympics.

@clebin

Quote:

Anyway, I finally played the demo of David Jones' new game, Crackdown. It's no GTA or Lemmings, but it's well worth owning.

Yeah, like many others I thought "Uh-oh... must be a stinker" when they tied the Halo 3 beta invites to the game. But the game is a lot of fun. It's simple but extremely addictive. So far my best has been 92 orbs within the demo time-out. It sure changes the gameplay a whole lot - it goes from being another sandbox game to a super-cop game. And then it really starts being fun

It's too bad that the screenshots really don't relay that the game looks pretty sweet in action. I'm actually looking more forward to Crackdown than Halo 3 at the moment.

@Trezzer

For me personally, all these screenshots don't really mean a lot. Well, that's maybe because I did/do not have a 360 or a high end PC. I never wanted one. So, I might be easily impressed by what I see on the PS3. But that's alright with me. Why bother. This does still not really mean the PS3s quality or performance is lower or what. It quiet delivers what I did expect.

But, I believe there are a lot people out there like me. They didn't/don't bother about the 360 (if they would, they would have bought one already). Or some others are comparing things a bit closer. But then others again simply want this or that and have made up their minds. I think all these gadgets now are days are great. Would you have imagined that 5 to 10 years ago, that games would visually (and technically) reach that level within that short amount of time ? I didn't. I am not afraid that the PS3 won't sell. And neither am I worried about the 360 (or the Wii).

Currently, I am more then happy with the PS3. I did never buy that many games for the PS2, but somehow I got into it. And I am just thinking about the next spendings...MotorStorm for sure, but I read great things about Lair. And, darn, VT3 and Fatal Inertia, all before April...I need a raise.

_________________
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µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
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@Jorge

Sure having choice is good.

And considering your thoughts about it (and requirements) I'd say the PS3 is the best system for you. I don't think of you as the average gamer, though, and it seems you agree yourself to some extent.

As for what games would be like? Well, I guess back then I had higher expectations. Remember what was the selling point of the day: Virtual reality. After all Amiga 3000s were used in the then most popular VR solution, so why should we not have expected it in our homes sooner or later?

In retrospect there were of course downsides too: It's simply not very relaxing to play like that, it requires a fair bit of space, multiplayer becomes a lot more expensive (more helmets/systems) and even simple things like people with glasses having problems with the helmets. VirtualBoy was an attempt at getting it into consumers' hands - that certainly didn't fare too well

*Sigh* all this thinking back made me REALLY miss beautiful 2D adventure games. I think I'll go and fire one up in a couple of minutes.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Feb-2007 at 06:15 PM.

@Trezzer

92 orbs, eh? Hmmm, I think I'll have to see if I can't get 100... I bet you're one of those million-plus in Geometry Wars people though, aren't you?

On my first go I took out one of the gang bosses, collected some orbs and then attempted to jump around the ferris wheel within the time limit (powering up more would've helped)

The graphic details are completely acceptable without wowing anyone, but the lighting is just right, and the bigger panoramas are rather lovely.

Chris

@MikeB

This is by far your worst post ever.

Quote:

You came up with so many (IMO mostly baseless) pro-XBox 360 and anti-PS3 arguments along the way the discussion turned away from the PS3's potential for the Amiga community into 'this vs that' war, at a time when the discussions didn't actually relate to anything 'XBox 360 nor 'Gears of War vs Resistance'.

Funny. I can say the exact same thing about you, posting that the PS3 is the best thing since sliced bread and dismissing every single claim and argument, no matter how justified, that didn't agree to this. You have proved for the nth time that you do not read the posts you reply to.

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@Jorge

Quote:

Hammer, please don't ignore the price in that perspective. There was always something better out there. Even in the past. There were things like SGI when we were playing Amiga. Some gaming PCs these days cost up to $5K. These are workstations, even today, not home machines. It just seems that there are more people around these days who spend that money just for a gaming machine, maybe they do some productive work with it, too (but I would guess this is a smaller group where money does not matter). But back then, an Amiga4000 did cost easily $2500+. I still think, that, with (and when) all SPEs are getting utilized, the performance will come very close to the multi K$ PCs. And one fact which counts towards game consoles is the fact that you have a big screen in your living room. While I'd consider buying a 1080p 37" as a desktop monitor, usually the main monitor market is still 19"/22"/24" these days (Dell has a 28" out now). This gives you a total different gaming experience between a PC and a console. The same applies to kb/mouse style gameplay on the PC (strategy games like CC etc. which are not available on consoles).

Quite untrue, actually, you can build a great games machine with a killer GFX card for less than a grand including the monitor.

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@clebin

Quote:

92 orbs, eh? Hmmm, I think I'll have to see if I can't get 100... I bet you're one of those million-plus in Geometry Wars people though, aren't you?

Heh, noooooo. I think I'm stuck at a mere 400-500k or so. I play it every now and then to relax, and I do get better for every time I play it, but since I hate the first slow piece after having been at full speed in the previous game, I rarely play it more than once at a time. In general, though, I suppose I am a bit of the old-fashioned "hardcore gamer" as much as I dislike the description - I like my games challenging. Capcom are my friends ^_^

It should be perfectly possible to reach 100 orbs within the demo. I didn't start out optimally (by grabbing the low-hanging orbs in the town center), and since the first orbs are the hardest I bet you could well reach 120 or maybe even more within the time limit.

@AMiGR

Quote:

Quite untrue, actually, you can build a great games machine with a killer GFX card for less than a grand including the monitor.

You try to soften the edges. That's not what Hammer is doing. He's citing the top edge of the curve. That's what I was referring to.

I, however agree with you.You can get a decent complete system including burner, monitor and printer for below $1000. Sure. I just do not think you get anything comparable with a PS3 or 360 for below say $600.

(cheap is e.g. a AMD64x2 with a NForce 6100, 1GB RAM, DVD burner for about $499. Which is a decent machine, but again, not for 1080p high def high performance games).

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
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µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Yeah, early on in consoles' lives they are generally hard to beat when it comes to value for money.

I doubt you can build something that matches 360 or PS3 feature for feature with the specs/price either machine has. Wii might be a different story - but it's all a moot point, because people don't necessarily get consoles for their raw power. They get them for the games they offer.

@Trezzer

I'm on 367,000 I think. Last time I got the "Survive 250,000" Achievement, so by rights should've gone onto to a good score... but I bottled it.

I stop playing after a go or two because trying to keep your edge over multiple goes is a law of diminishing returns. That Achievement was on my first go for a month or so, which is invariably the case.

@AMiGR

Quote:

This is by far your worst post ever.

Hm, I consider that a compliment, as I have been a little angry at times doing worse than that. This was just a small recollection of statements made between Trezzer and me.

Quote:

Funny. I can say the exact same thing about you, posting that the PS3 is the best thing since sliced bread

No I haven't, but I do think the PS3 and its 'Other OS' support is one of the best oppertunities the Amiga community has seen in years. Luckily at least Hyperion entertainment seems to agree on this based on the news. AmigaOS4 is PPC together with its kernel and 68k->PPC emulators, thus my special interest in the Cell and so this thought process of having AmigaOS4 on the PS3 was quickly made. Luckily you were totally wrong when you countered me claiming Sony would never allow this.

@Jorge

Quote:

I, however agree with you.You can get a decent complete system including burner, monitor and printer for below $1000. Sure. I just do not think you get anything comparable with a PS3 or 360 for below say $600.

I paid £350 for an AM2 Athlon64 3500+ with a Radeon X1950XT 256MB and a gig of DDR2 533 RAM, including the case, fans, etc. Add better RAM, better CPU and a hard drive and it's up to about £500 and already you have GPU of the same level as the PS3 GPU.

Edit: That's up to *power*, though, the PS3 is a complete gaming package and as such it cannot be really compared with a PC.

Last edited by AMiGR on 19-Feb-2007 at 07:20 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

Hm, I consider that a compliment, as I have been a little angry at times doing worse than that. This was just a small recollection of statements made between Trezzer and me.

Each one still valid on its own but taken out of context to make yourself look better.

I have a word for that, but I'd get reported for abuse.

@MikeB

Quote:

Luckily you were totally wrong when you countered me claiming Sony would never allow this.

I was not exactly totally wrong. They impose serious limitations on what the hosted OS can do.

_________________

@AMiGR

Quote:

I paid £350 for an AM2 Athlon64 3500+ with a Radeon X1950XT 256MB and a gig of DDR2 533 RAM, including the case, fans, etc. Add better RAM, better CPU and a hard drive and it's up to about £500 and already you have GPU of the same level as the PS3 GPU.

£350...that's about $680.00
£500..is about $975.00

Yes, here you have it.

BTW: I think the GPU in the PS3 is not so relevant. There are 6 spus available which can perform GPU tasks (e.g. used as shaders)...and more. I would guess we'll see much more of these things in the future. The CELL is still a kinda 8 core cpu, which PCs have yet to match (and that's not about raw numbers but what you can do at the same time).

_________________
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µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
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@Trezzer

Quote:

Each one still valid on its own but taken out of context to make yourself look better.

You are free to correct me, I cannot copy the entire thread's content here which spans several pages. Maybe you are surprized by your own statements, I think next year when you reread some stuff you wrote you might get a heart attack.

@ AmiGR

Quote:

I was not exactly totally wrong. They impose serious limitations on what the hosted OS can do.

No, you were entirely wrong. The PS3 would be able to run AmigaOS4 much faster than any AmigaOne or Pegasos2 many people within the community are using now. The Cell can do some great graphics, I think if developers learn to get the most out of this RSX accelerated drivers will not look this important anymore.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Feb-2007 at 07:31 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

You are free to correct me, I cannot copy the entire thread's content here which spans several pages.

Quote:

Maybe you are surprized by your own statements

Once again you don't bother to read what is written, which makes me wonder why I bother addressing you in the first place. Here's a Bouma-friendly version:

I said each statement is still valid on its own - in their original context. Taking things out of context and intentionally misrepresenting the chronology and structure of the original dialogue is at best dishonest.
- then again we all know that you like to stoop to those tactics, since you apparently don't care much about integrity. I don't intend to follow. The threads are still there.

I hope the above helped you understand my point.

Quote:

I think next year when you reread some stuff you wrote you might get a heart attack

That's rather unlikely for several reasons. One being that I simply don't care much about PS3 - only about misrepresentation of it.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Feb-2007 at 07:40 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

The Cell can do some great graphics, I think if developers learn to get the most out of this RSX accelerated drivers will not look this important anymore

Well, I don't entirely agree. I miss full RSX support. And I hope this is not a political decision, not to make HW RSX support available. Sony/Nvidia might simply have other priorities. But I hope that, when the PS3 is established in the gaming environment, Linux (or any other OS) will not be seen as a to big thread to their business model and eventually we'll see full RSX 3D support.

Especially the PS3 could shine with full RSX shader support and an XGL desktop.

Edit: I don't think Linux on the PS3 is a thread for professional games. For such a thing you need all the HW you can get. Which is simply limited when you run Linux as a host (64MB for the OS, to many services in the background, and to many application open at the same time). But Linux could open up the potential to all the bedroom coder and thus the potential work force available to make great games on the PS3 (without spending millions in training and salary).

Last edited by Jorge on 19-Feb-2007 at 08:33 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Quote:

Edit: I don't think Linux on the PS3 is a thread for professional games. For such a thing you need all the HW you can get. Which is simply limited when you run Linux as a host (64MB for the OS, to many services in the background, and to many application open at the same time). But Linux could open up the potential to all the bedroom coder and thus the potential work force available to make great games on the PS3 (without spending millions in training and salary).

Yeah but why use a PS3 for Linux? If you have a team that wants to make Linux games you can have them do it on a PC today running Linux for nearly the same price and that machine can be upgraded in the future. Is it not a far better deal to have a solution where the games would fit into the Sony PS3 ecosystem? No need to load Linux but a development suite for the small time developer that might want to try their hand at programming the PS3 w/ the PS3 OS? Sony is rumored to play catch up later this year and make a kit similar to XNA for the 360 in such a vein.