@Trezzer

Now who said something about using bold text...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

@jiyong

Quote:

jiyong wrote: @Trezzer Now who said something about using bold text... Sorry, couldn't resist.

Ahem... I guess Trezzer did it exactly the illustrate that point.

@Trezzer

Quote:

chronology and structure

I don't see anything wrong with the chronology and structure, as for selective quoting I think that's normal, do you expect me to quote whole messages together with all the responses you got and replies (starting a full thread within a thread)? Anyone who's interested can look up the discussion for him or herself.

Basically you made several bold claims and assumptions and made me interested to know more and I felt I wasn't in the position to have a full in depth opinion with regard to the XBox 360 and 'Gears of War' other than known specs and a few testplays I've had (which I think is not enough to state an informed opinion), so I pushed myself to acquire deeper knowledge, but in the end thought you blew things way out of proportions.

Now I haven't made huge clains with regard to 'Resistance: Fall Of Man' for example other than IMO this is the first game to show off the cell and overall I think it's a great game, ceratainly better for me than Gears. Maybe if you play the game till the end and did a bit of online gaming you may actually agree considering you haven't played the game.

Quote:

One being that I simply don't care much about PS3 - only about misrepresentation of it.

I think: You do care about the former, but you care less about the latter.

But who knows, maybe one year from now you may come here to AmigaWorld saying: "Typing this message from my brand new Playstation 3!".

@BrianK

Quote:

Yeah but why use a PS3 for Linux?

Why not ? I pretty much love my linux on the PS3. It gives me all I want. Hopefully some will port flash to PPC and that would be it (the only thing I am missing). Well, an AmigaOS might be a bit more efficient given the low memory situation. But then, that would require full 3D support and more tools (and a decent web browser).

From a coder POV its just a cute nice platform to tinker with. It gives one the opportunity to play with a CELL, e.g. I am curious how long it will take to get mplayer to use the SPE. I even think that gained know how can be of some value. Actually I don't even know if I would buy a PC any more. Don't know what I could use it for which I couldn't do with the PS3 ? (But then, I am not an artist who needs Photoshop and such).

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@MikeB

Quote:

No, you were entirely wrong.

No, I was not. You cannot possibly claim that I was entirely wrong. I was the first person to apologise when the Other OS feature was revealed officially BUT then the limitations of the VM became known.

Quote:

The PS3 would be able to run AmigaOS4 much faster than any AmigaOne or Pegasos2 many people within the community are using now.

And?

Quote:

The Cell can do some great graphics, I think if developers learn to get the most out of this RSX accelerated drivers will not look this important anymore.

I'm sorry Mike, but yet again, you're making very bold claims with no proof. Claims not you or even any developer can currently make, it's too early. I shall ask you this: Why the hell does the Playstation 3 have the RSX if the Cell can do great GFX anyway? The SPEs can *help* with GFX work but they cannot take over the work of a massive dedicated GFX parallel processor.

_________________

@MikeB

Quote:

I don't see anything wrong with the chronology and structure, as for selective quoting I think that's normal, do you expect me to quote whole messages together with all the responses you got and replies (starting a full thread within a thread)? Anyone who's interested can look up the discussion for him or herself.

That's what you have been doing for every single quote, though, and in some cases you go to extremes, like skipping the most significant bit of a SENTENCE, like you did with Seehund, totally changing the whole meaning of an entire post.

You twist words better than most people I've ever seen post on forums.

THAT is why you have seen people that are on your side disagree and argue with you, like Wegster for instance. Wegster is a PS3 fan and doesn't even wanna hear about the XBox 360, yet you saw him disagreeing with you. Think about it.

Last edited by AMiGR on 19-Feb-2007 at 09:54 PM.

_________________

@jtsiren

Quote:

Ahem... I guess Trezzer did it exactly the illustrate that point.

Maybe he proved he isn't very good at highlighting text. For me his bolding did not make the text any clearer. Usually highlighting the important pieces you are actually referring to enhances readability or easing uptake/understanding, for instance when quoting large pieces of text within complete context.

Many professors and students do it all the time. I taught this practise to my girlfriend and today she happily called me to say she received an excellent grade for her exam!

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:22 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:21 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 19-Feb-2007 at 09:56 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Many professors and students do it all the time. I learned this practise to my girlfriend to and today she called me to say she received an excellent grade for her exam!

Random off topic fact no-one wanted to hear. I'm off to the bathroom to brush my teeth.








It was relevant, wasn't it?

_________________

@MikeB

Quote:

as for selective quoting I think that's normal

Yes, it's very normal for you. However I do not appreciate my quotes taken out of context. If you quote me quote me properly (i.e. retaining the context) or don't quote me at all. You know as well as I do that you intentionally put those quotes together to make you come off as the balanced unbiased guy while you put my last post as a reaction to your levelheadedness - which is plain wrong and you know it.

Quote:

but in the end thought you blew things way out of proportions

I think you're the one blowing things out of proportion to be honest. You're the only one who has painted himself into a corner where there's no way out of. I've said that so far everything points towards the PS3 being highly overrated - not least due to the hype from Sony which some people are entirely uncritical towards despite of what we've learned from history.

Fact: So far all simultaneous releases have looked the same or better (the latter is true in the majority of cases) on Xbox 360 compared to PS3

Fact: Many launch titles on the PS3 had little to no improvement - and in some respects were even worse - than the 360 launch titles despite having an extra year to tweak the engine and adapt it.

Quote:

Now I haven't made huge clains with regard to 'Resistance: Fall Of Man' for example other than IMO this is the first game to show off the cell and overall I think it's a great game, ceratainly better for me than Gears. Maybe if you play the game till the end and did a bit of online gaming you may actually agree considering you haven't played the game.

I haven't criticized the gameplay in any way. I have criticized the graphics for not being on par with Gears of War and indeed looking spectacularly dated. Resistance: Fall of Man looks like a 2003 PC shooter. Gears of War is so far still the best looking game on any console. The fact that Gears of War is also a great game is a different matter and R:FoM has certainly received positive notes on the story/atmosphere even if I have first hand reports telling me it suffers from rather silly glitches such as being able to shoot through walls and whatnot. The game might well still be enjoyable enough to outweigh that for me, but for the particular PS3 owner I talked to it was not.

Quote:

I think: You do care about the former, but you care less about the latter.

Thinking isn't really your strong suit, is it?

Quote:

But who knows, maybe one year from now you may come here to AmigaWorld saying: "Typing this message from my brand new Playstation 3!"

This is unlikely for several reasons.

1. It's insanely expensive.
2. It's Sony and that makes it an extremely hard sell to me. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's highly unlikely.
3. I've found out that I would indeed have to buy a new display thanks to the lack of scaling in the PS3 and lack of ability to output 1080p over an analogue connection - which would make a heft investment even more expensive.
4. So far there are extremely few exclusives that are of interest to me.
5. I have a far better browser and would most likely not be surfing on a console that performs the task slower/lacks features compared to what I already have and offers no benefits - other than to try it once.
6. It's just not a very interesting machine as long as it's not offering me anything substantially better than what I already have that's 1) a more mature product and 2) far far cheaper.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:14 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I learned this practise to my girlfriend

No. You taught it to her. Free lesson over.

That said highlighting generally disturbs the reading of a text - your highlighting included. Why? Because you generally use it in the same way you use your selective quotes: To distort the bigger picture to your advantage.

Quote:

For me his bolding did not make the text any clearer.

You don't get it with highlighting and you don't get it without. I guess that says more about you than it does about my highlighting.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:14 PM.

@AMiGR

Quote:

No, I was not

Yes you were wrong. No I am not. Yes you were. No, I was not. Yes you were.

Look either Sony allows other oses to run on the PS3 or not. That's a yes or a no. Either your parents allow you to go out or not, that you can't the car is another story. Another example, Genesi has MorphOS running on the Pegasos2, this is correct even iif there are no drivers or software for some onboard functionalities supplied.

Like I said direct RSX support would be great, how this eventually developes for the long run will be interesting to follow. However at this point if Linux devs want to really impress, they will have to acquire knowledge with regard to handling the SPEs, so this situation may even be beneficial for the long regarding Cell development.

Quote:

limitations

Well, IMO using AmigaOS4 on the much praised Efika would be more of a limitation.

Quote:

Why the hell does the Playstation 3 have the RSX if the Cell can do great GFX anyway?

Maybe because the Cell is radically different from ordinary fully dedicated graphic chips, so having both types of processors enhances or compliments eachother's strenghts and weaknesses for better performance as well as for porting software which wasn't designed with the Cell in mind.

Last edited by MikeB on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:24 PM.

@Trezzer

Quote:

3. I've found out that I would indeed have to buy a new display thanks to the lack of scaling in the PS3 and lack of ability to output 1080p over an analogue connection - which would make a heft investment even more expensive.

Huh ? What makes you think that ? 1080p runs fine over component. Even BluRay works in 1080i without HDMI.

Quote:

6. It's just not a very interesting machine as long as it's not offering me anything substantially better than what I already have that's 1) a more mature product and 2) far far cheaper.

Well, yes. That makes sense. If you have a similar machine - and you are not really a collector, the PS3 might not be for you. (just yet

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Trezzer

Quote:

silly glitches such as being able to shoot through walls and whatnot

Hahaha, that was funny.

You know little about this game, that's what this gun is supposed to do. Also there's an option for slow motion (Max Payne style), in case you want to claim you saw slowdowns.

@Jorge

Quote:

Huh ? What makes you think that ? 1080p runs fine over component. Even BluRay works in 1080i without HDMI.

My monitor only handles 1080p (or higher) over VGA.

So I can get 720p via HDMI with HDCP but not 1080p. I can get 1080i via component but not 1080p.
I can get the full range using VGA or HDMI without HDCP.

In other words no 1080p for me using a PS3.

Last edited by Trezzer on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:35 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Yes you were wrong. No I am not. Yes you were. No, I was not. Yes you were.

You are 5 years of age, aren't you?

Quote:

Look either Sony allows other oses to run on the PS3 or not. That's a yes or a no. Either your parents allow you to go out or not, that you can't the car is another story. Another example, Genesi has MorphOS running on the Pegasos2, this is correct even iif there are no drivers or software for some onboard functionalities supplied.

They do not let anything run on the Playstation 3 directly, they allow OSes to run on the Sony Hypervisor that **does not provide support for certain features on purpose, NOT because no-one could be bothered to write drivers**.

Quote:

Well, IMO using AmigaOS4 on the much praised Efika would be more of a limitation.

Who cares, it has never been praised by me.

Quote:

Maybe because the Cell is radically different from ordinary fully dedicated graphic chips, so having both types of processors enhances or compliments eachother's strenghts and weaknesses for better performance as well as for porting software which wasn't designed with the Cell in mind.

It will not be faster than custom GFX hardware on *gfx* operations, although the *combination* might work nicely. The SPEs are vector units, they are not "so radically different from ordinary fully dedicated graphic chips" because they handle graphics operations differently, they are "so radically different from ordinary fully dedicated graphic chips" because they are NOT graphics chips, they are multi purpose programmable vector units.

However, what is your paragraph a reply to? Yes, the fact that there is no RSX driver. So, how exactly is the RSX + SPE *combination* relevant? The SPEs *alone* will never be faster than a dedicated GPU with 48 or so dedicated pixel shader pipelines (processing units) when handling pixel operations, don't you think that Sony would have just had a bigger Cell instead of the RSX if it was?

_________________

@MikeB

Quote:

You know little about this game, that's what this gun is supposed to do.

From what he said it was a regular weapon and it only shot through joints - i.e. corners and the like.

@Trezzer

Quote:

if I have first hand reports telling me it suffers from rather silly glitches such as being able to shoot through walls and whatnot.

Hey, I missed that one. Well, I cannot confirm that. And I am thru twice now and my third run in hard mode will take a bit longer

The only glitch so far I have found is in the London Level, right after leaving the Train station where I got stuck somewhere in the Chopper and had to bomb myself to start over. But shooting thru the wall? Well, I guess that's intended if you use the Auger

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Trezzer

Quote:

My monitor only handles 1080p (or higher) over VGA

I don't know how you would connect a 15pin VGA to the PS3. I have one of these PS2 VGA cables, but that one doesn't work (or I haven't played long enough with it). I don't know of any PS3 cables which would support a 15pin VGA connector. HDMI to DVI should work, though.

Quote:

So I can get 720p via HDMI with HDCP but not 1080p. I can get 1080i via component but not 1080p.

I don't get that. So, what you are saying, your monitor can handle 720p thru HDMI/DVI but not 1080i/p ? Confused. Or are you under the impression, you cannot select a 1080 mode in the PS3 menu if you don't have a HDMI cable connected ? That assumption is simply wrong. You can.

1080i/p has nothing to do with HDCP. It works regardless (both 1080i and p over component). Don't know if my TV uses/requires HDCP on the HDMI. I can just tell you, that component (YrYbR or what that is) works without HDCP, my BluRays are displayed in 1080i (but only if I set the menu to 1080i or p). I don't know if HDMI to DVI includes an analog VGA signal. Might have to try that out. Note, SCART does not exist here, so I can't say to what that translates. S-Video, I don't know, but that's treated like Component, AFAIK.

Last edited by Jorge on 19-Feb-2007 at 10:46 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Trezzer

Quote:

From what he said it was a regular weapon and it only shot through joints - i.e. corners and the like.

Well, you can tag enemies and shoot around corners with the Bullseye...

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Jorge

Quote:

I don't get that. So, what you are saying, your monitor can handle 720p thru HDMI/DVI but not 1080i/p

It's like this on my monitor:

HDMI: 1920*1200, 1080p, 720 etc.
HDMI+HDCP: 720p, 480p (possibly also various VGA resolutions)
VGA: 1920*1200, 1080p, 720 etc.
Component: 1080i, 720p, 480p

(besides some PAL/NTSC inputs)

Since Blu-Ray discs require HDCP to play at 1080p it's game over for my monitor - especially since it doesn't accept 1080p via component.

When playing games, PS3 also enables HDCP in 1080p via HDMI.
If it did not do that I could use my monitor just fine.

Link to further info about HDCP in 1080p