@BrianK

Quote:

Be,Inc. was making a computing solutions for clients. It appears they failed to work with AT&T and ensure any agreements so they knew the Hobbit would have a next release.

Actually they probably did, possibly why AT&T helped them port to PPC.

If AT&T did have some form of agreement to keep producing processors it wouldn't have been worth the paper it was written on. Motorola signed a deal which required them to produce a 64bit PPC called the 620, they did indeed ship it - 5 years late and with half the expected performance.

Quote:

It appears they failed to put any long term agreements in place with Apple ensuring a knowledgeable PowerPC clone.

How could they? Apple were their competitor.

Quote:

But, really you're supporting my point here Microsoft isn't the reason Be failed. There were problems before they even began to take on Microsoft in the x86 marketplace. At best Microsoft competition was a last straw in the line of fumbles.

None of the earlier events caused Be's downfall. The earlier events didn't hurt Be in the long run, if anything they strengthened them, going x86 allowed them to bring in further investment (from the likes of Intel) and they had an IPO. BeOS, when it arrived on x86 was not exactly finished but was well on it's way, by the time they went down it was actually a very good system, I used it as my main system and only used Windows for Photoshop.

So no, I'm not supporting your point at all.

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Whyzzat?

Btw. here is some food for thought. I dont know if this link was posted before but it is quite interesting note from a game journalist.

Quote:

I think I can explain why we're not seeing any major coverage of the Linux angle from game journalists: we don't care.  Or, more accurately, we don't care because the mainstream audience doesn't care.  Most people have never even heard of Linux, after all.  Right now at launch most readers in the mainstream want to see reviews of the launch titles and learn what major games are coming up soon.

Source

Article is very old now (from November 2006) but has anyone seen Linux articles for PS3? How many PS3/Linux users are there after all?

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Amiga Developer
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@minator

Quote:

None of the earlier events caused Be's downfall. The earlier events didn't hurt Be in the long run

Switching from Hobbit to PowerPC likely had minimal impact on Be. They didn't have a full solution yet but some beta testing. They didn't have a product on the market so no users to support. There was likely some additional man hours to port to a new processor but as you said with some AT&T help it appears damage wasminimized.

Moving to PowerPC did hurt in the long run. Had they secured contracts with strongly tied manufactures they would have been fine. Likely moving from Hobbit to x86 may have been better as they wouldn't have spun wheels for a couple years on PowerPC to only have it fail. Look there were market reasons yes. But, the reason companies have management is to work understanding markets and ensuring their product is meeting a need. It appears that Be's management could have done better on many occasions. So yes I'd argue it did hurt Be in the long run because if x86 was the perfect solution their prefect solution got out 2-3 years later then it should have had they skipped PowerPC.

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. BeOS, when it arrived on x86 was not exactly finished but was well on it's way, by the time they went down it was actually a very good system,

Nice point no one argued it wasn't a good system. But, this is a market it's only hypothetical that the best product wins. There are business costs, market knowledge, product timings, and other business factors that best ensure a product. I'm highly doubtful Gassee and the Be management conducted every step perfectly and the only reason they failed was Microsoft. They were already on the fall when forced to port to x86.

@itix

Give it some time. I wouldn't say Linux on the PS3 is the main target market. But on potential 10MM customer market by maybe end of 2007 (2008), I think there is a fair change the Linux part can reach 0.1% which is about 100K. Or even more (up to 1% = 1MM). I think this critical mass will be reached which OTHO will result in some press coverage, and if not by magazines/web sites out now, then maybe thru newly created media.

I'm dreaming of times, when one would report how a coder hacked this or that with the SPE and the magazines would print code examples...(I'm old fashioned, I guess .

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@Jorge

Quote:

I'm dreaming of times, when one would report how a coder hacked this or that with the SPE and the magazines would print code examples...(I'm old fashioned, I guess .

New Scientist has had several articles about a few applications of the SPEs but they were all waaaaay too high level, nothing near a code example.

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@BrianK

[BeOS / PPC]

Actually, I think it was a mistake to go to x86 for Be. Simply because of the dominating companies in the market. They had a fair nice machine back then. 2 cpus (now a days everybody's talking about multi core). But back then the PPC was not powerfull enough, the HW was too expensive and Be them selfs had a lack of vision what they really wanted. It was a pitty. I am not sure if they would have been successful with a geek system, but how so often, if you dream to high, and to big volume, you forget the costs (and cash flow) involved. To fast growth, not enough cash, focus shifts from core competencies (technology) to market/sales. And its over before you can think about it...

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@AMiGR

Quote:

New Scientist has had several articles about a few applications of the SPEs but they were all waaaaay too high level, nothing near a code example.

IBM has that on their web site. Incl. SPE assembler code. I actually tried that out (both C and asm variation). Worked without any problems...better then the old days, because I could cut and past the code from the web site instead of typing it from a magazine (like in the old days).

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@Jorge

Have you looked at this?

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@itix

Thx for the link.

They mentioned Eclipse etc. While it runs, I have switched to KDevelop and KGdb. Both work fine and fast.

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Quote:

minator wrote: @BrianK None of the earlier events caused Be's downfall.

Be's downfall starts and ends with Jean-Louis Gassée, he turned down evey good deal he was ever offered for his OS.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Trezzer
Quote:

Managed to beat ya ;) I grabbed 109 orbs this time - the last one was in the very second the demo timed out. Man I can't wait for the full game

Good work! Well, it looks like I know what to do after work tomorrow...!

By the way, after talking about Geometry Wars on here I cracked the 500,000 Achievement (520,000). I think I entered a kind of Zen-like (or should that be Tron-like?) trance about 400,000 in! I'll probably start levitating when I reach a million...

@clebin

Quote:

Good work! Well, it looks like I know what to do after work tomorrow...!

A tip: Scope out a couple of the multi-orbs (where little ones are above the big ones) - preferably in clusters. They help you get an earlier boost and that makes getting the rest easier.

Is your gamertag the same as your username here? Could be fun to keep track of your leaderboard scores.

@Tigger

On your quote you kept my name in under Minator's but that was Minator's statement not mine.. Just wanted to clear that up it looked like I might have said it.

Quote:

Be's downfall starts and ends with Jean-Louis Gassée, he turned down evey good deal he was ever offered for his OS

We definitely agree .

@itix

Quote:

Since it was impossible to deal with Apple, and fight against fierece competition against Microsoft and free Linux, was there any chance from the beginning at all? They could have made wiser decisions yet end result could have been the same still...

I vaguely remember emailing Be, asking them to support my G3. I asked why they couldn't look at Linux code or run a thin compatibility layer like MacOnLinux. I got a very nice response back, but they weren't prepared to be on a platform where they weren't welcome. I felt Apple deserved it after they killed the clone market, and it was still years before OS X was out and usable.

I felt they were too timid, and I felt they were too timid dealing with Microsoft too. But that's easy to say when you don't have the financial figures in front of you.

I'm pinning my hopes on Haiku now. I felt a little sick reading today that MS are charging $780 for one version of Vista in the UK, which only costs $380 in the US. What benefit does this country get for that extra $400 for a DVD and some cardboard? Same day, my work-mate's bought a laptop, and like mine it came with Windows (Vista this time) whether you want it or not. The situation hasn't changed one iota in 10 years and it's depressing.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 22-Feb-2007 at 12:52 AM.

@Trezzer

I'll try that. I might not spend so much time figuring out where the next set of orbs are next time.

Yep, my gamertag is the same as my username...

Chris

@clebin

Quote:

I vaguely remember emailing Be, asking them to support my G3. I asked why they couldn't look at Linux code or run a thin compatibility layer like MacOnLinux. I got a very nice response back, but they weren't prepared to be on a platform where they weren't welcome

You e-mailed the wrong person.

In exchange for a few Pizzas one of the developers apparently did an unofficial G3 port for someone...

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Whyzzat?

@minator

Quote:

You e-mailed the wrong person. In exchange for a few Pizzas one of the developers apparently did an unofficial G3 port for someone...

Sounds a bit fishy...

Be, Inc. made the claim that the changes in the Apple BIOS on the G3 broke it in such a way that they wouldn't run on the iMac or iBook. The problem isn't the G3 or G4. Now we all know LinuxPPC runs on such an animal. So, conceivably it is do able.

BeOS does run on a G3 and G4 processor. An older Mac updated with a G4 will run BeOS just fine. Example: Take that Mac 9500 and use the XLR CarrierZif G4 to upgrade the CPU and bam! A G4 BeOS box.

Again it could be that they eventually got around the new BIOS. But it seems more likely someone simply did such a CPU upgrade.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-Feb-2007 at 02:49 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Take that Mac 9500 and use the XLR CarrierZif G4 to upgrade the CPU and bam! A G4 BeOS box.

If it weren't because x86 is supported better on BeOS, I should take that old Powercomputer Powercenter upgraded with G3 and more RAM and put BeOS on it. But the PPC version is hard to come by too.

Here are some interesting tidbits about XNA.

Does it sound like something we've heard somewhere before?

@Trezzer

Funny, hah ? CLR ... Common Language Runtime. At least they always come up with new names. We called that VP (virtual processor), or what. Why do I think, AmigaDE had that since years ? And before it was and is called TAO Intentend ? Well, must be good now, its from MS.

I am just curious. As fascinating this tech might be, why wold one build their own customized CPU to just put another abstraction layer on top of it to make it look like the same across all boards again ? To many people or what ?

Last edited by Jorge on 22-Feb-2007 at 05:15 AM.

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