@stew

Quote:

Thanks for clairifing the the "bury everthing" part. I didn't want you be part of a coverup and loose all of your credability.

Thank you for the implied trust

Quote:

Why not put this news on the front page of every Amiga news forum? It is the best news to hit in a long time.

I guess the developers (rightly) want to do their job and their business without external interference and to avoid the mess and the pressure the AAA/AAS/ASS can cause

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@stew

Quote:

Instead of being so critical how about a proper translation that is accurate and professionl. Either you should step up or shut up! False hopes seem to all there has been for awhile.

You misunderstood elwood's intentions. He did what he could, i.e. tried to correct a mistake without spreading further news, obeying the request by the developers themselves.
As for a translation, a good one came out later anyway, and it's the one reported above.

saimo

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@Yabba

Quote:

Yabba wrote: @Hans Quote: What surprises me is that ExecSG needed to be recompiled. I thought that with the exception of using altivec, PowerPC code should run on all PowerPC variants. Or at least, PowerPC code for older processors should run on the newer ones without a problem. User level code, ie all apps, most os components etc. yes. But things like cache controllers, mmu etc. are different. These parts have to be ported. Not a huge task, but it still has to be done. rgds, Stefan

Ah right, because cache controllers, MMU, etc. are not part of the core processor specification.

Hans

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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans
Quote:

What surprises me is that ExecSG needed to be recompiled. I thought that with the exception of using altivec, PowerPC code should run on all PowerPC variants. Or at least, PowerPC code for older processors should run on the newer ones without a problem.

Given the problems with the AmigaOne, it's very likely there is machine specific code in ExecSG. Or, maybe there are optimizations they wished to take advantage of. We'll never know.

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@Hans

Quote:

Ah right, because cache controllers, MMU, etc. are not part of the core processor specification.

Correct. Or should I say, part of the common PPC standard. (It has a fancy name which I have forgotten)

The same goes for the 68k series CPU where interrupt stacks etc. looked different between different architectures. But user level code still looked the same or had extensions that didn't affect older programs.

rgds
Stefan

Yabba:
I think you mean the CHRP and PReP standards?

@saimo


"obeying the request by the developers themselves."

The developers put the news out on a very public forum that discusses all sorts of OSes and don't want the word to get out? OK I guess I am lost on that point. My apologies to elwood.


from the thread translation "a good one came out later":
"I know how much it took to run ExecSG on Moana, and I had the sources and help from the two clones"

Can the Friedens give sources and help to the other hardware developers that don't yet have a license?

All this is very exciting but without an answer to the ownership question I see disappointment on the horizon yet again. I hate to be pessimistic but the Amiga history leads to this. In a perfect world someone with money (that all in the Amiga community respects) would step up and produce a functional upto date hardware, with a reasonable price, obtain license from all parties with ownership, pay for porting, and get the developers paid.
Sounds like a miracle is needed.

@stew

Quote:

stew wrote: from the thread translation "a good one came out later": "I know how much it took to run ExecSG on Moana, and I had the sources and help from the two clones" Can the Friedens give sources and help to the other hardware developers that don't yet have a license?

I have no idea what the situation is, but I know that Adam (from ACK Controls) is an OS4 developer and hence probably has access to the ExecSG code. The guy responsible for getting ExecSG to run on the Moana test board could also be a developer that already has access. The help was probably in response to questions sent by email. I doubt that the Friedens would go round giving the sources to everyone that asked.

Hans

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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@stew

Quote:

The developers put the news out on a very public forum that discusses all sorts of OSes and don't want the word to get out? OK I guess I am lost on that point.

Yes, it sounds weird, but that's what happened.
In fact, when Andrea Vallinotto made that statement my immediate reaction was: "Andrea!!! Ma ti rendi conto di quanto hai appena detto? Sei autorizzato? Possiamo diffondere? " = "Andrea!!! Do you realize [how serious is] what you have just said? Are you authorized [to say that]? Can we spread [the news]?"

Quote:

"I know how much it took to run ExecSG on Moana, and I had the sources and help from the two clones" Can the Friedens give sources and help to the other hardware developers that don't yet have a license?

Andrea Vallinotto is not Mr Anybody and ACube is not Anycompany, Inc.
Andrea Vallinotto is an AOS4 developer (heh, his name even pops up at boot time, as he is responsible for the Second Level Bootloader) and ACube has contacts with AInc as regards AOS4 licenses (although, as of today, there is no license for Moana).

Quote:

All this is very exciting but without an answer to the ownership question I see disappointment on the horizon yet again.

My advice: don't bother guessing about the ownership matter. Only (maybe outdated) fragments of information have hit the news, so every reasoning about it, as smart as it can be, boils down to speculation.

saimo

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@Hans

Quote:

The guy responsible for getting ExecSG to run on the Moana test board could also be a developer that already has access.

Yes, he is (see my previous post).

saimo

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@ironfist
Thanks for the accurate translation. This is a moderately big news! Even if it was an accidental leak. It at least means that the Samantha board isn't (completely) non-functional, compared to the speculation about ACK's & Troika's efforts. As to how long it'll take them to produce a completely functional Samantha and/or fully port OS4...

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

I think you mean "Moana", not "Samantha".

ChrisH:
Yes! These are news of enormous value to the Amiga Community!

Quote:

(although, as of today, there is no license for Moana).

Ok, so... BBRV speaks of making OS4 run on the Efika and is "evil"...
Now someone says he has ported OS4 on a new board without the required licence and there's no one to complain ?
Where is the objectivity ?

_________________
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@Leo

Nobody has ported os4 to anything.

A developer in cooperation with the Friedens (as I understood it), has made ExecSG run on the moana as a proof of concept mainly.

_________________
Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.

If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all.
/Ins

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: Quote: (although, as of today, there is no license for Moana). Ok, so... BBRV speaks of making OS4 run on the Efika and is "evil"...

It's not only talk. They can do it, and I think they will (provided that what I write below works out).

Quote:

Now someone says he has ported OS4 on a new board without the required licence and there's no one to complain ? Where is the objectivity ?

Good question!

And while the porting process itself sure has similarities on both motherboards, there are one major thing that may differ after the porting is done - the ability to distribute and run OS4 for the hardware in a *legal* fashion. Acube would need a license (which I think they will not get, given the current state of affairs), but Genesi will handle that problem in a different way.

@ChrisH

Quote:

Thanks for the accurate translation.

Just a little correction: credit goes to guruman, an Italian iksnet user.

Quote:

This is a moderately big news! Even if it was an accidental leak. It at least means that the Samantha board isn't (completely) non-functional, compared to the speculation about ACK's & Troika's efforts. As to how long it'll take them to produce a completely functional Samantha and/or fully port OS4...

As hatschi pointed out, you may be mistaking Samantha for Moana.
If you are not, well then it should be made clear that the leaked news does not give any information as regards SAM. At most it proves that ACube is capable of designing and producing a board good enough to run ExecSG on, which, on its turn, indicates that they should be capable of producing a fully functional board on which AOS4 can run. In practice, this indirectly gives hope as for the SAM board too.

saimo

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@Leo & takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Quote: Now someone says he has ported OS4 on a new board without the required licence and there's no one to complain ? Where is the objectivity ? Good question!

Now, if you can't see the difference between this case and Genesi's case, you are either blind, or want to be blind, or have an agenda of your own.
The fact that:

• Leo ignored that in the original post and in the translation it is stated clearly that who helped with the port is the Frieden brothers themselves, who, according to their own words, are the owners of ExecSG;
  
• Leo ignored these explanations by Lecta, that immediately clarified who the people involved are;
  
• Leo ignored this explanation by Andrea Vallinotto himself, who made it very clear what the purpose of the port was;
  
• Leo ignored this sensible post by Hans;
  
• Leo reports only the line "(although, as of today, there is no license for Moana).", without reporting what preceded that line, which explained once again what had already been explained;
  
• takemehomegrandma ignored this further explanation by Insanity, quotes just Leo and strenghtens his blind position;
  

Last edited by Moxee on 28-Jan-2007 at 06:15 PM.
Last edited by saimo on 28-Jan-2007 at 12:40 PM.

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@Leo

Quote:

Ok, so... BBRV speaks of making OS4 run on the Efika and is "evil"... Now someone says he has ported OS4 on a new board without the required licence and there's no one to complain ? Where is the objectivity ?

No one says they have ported OS4 to new hardware. An OS4 developer has ported ExegSG (which belongs to the Frieden brothers) to proposed hardware from a company that Amiga Inc are willing to work with.

The Owner/s of Genesi, a company which doesn't want to do business with Amiga Inc (we don't know Ainc's side of the story), has proposed an illegal hack in order to get OS4 working on their hardware in order to by-pass negotiations and licences with Amiga Inc and Hyperion.

If you can't see the difference then I'm sorry for you.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

And while the porting process itself sure has similarities on both motherboards, there are one major thing that may differ after the porting is done - the ability to distribute and run OS4 for the hardware in a *legal* fashion. Acube would need a license (which I think they will not get, given the current state of affairs), but Genesi will handle that problem in a different way.

Which, put in clear words, means "Genesi does not license to distribute AOS4 legally". This is on par with BBRV statements, and makes you just as arrogant, unrespectful and liar.
Do you want to start another thread like this? Surely it seems so. And, anyway, to me it is clear that you have no consideration whatsoever of what people, with patience and resoned explanations, tell you. Please stop polluting these forums with propaganda.

saimo

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